Love, what is it?

[karen0123]

[

Perhaps we should ask WHO is Love, WHO is the source of Love and WHO loves us? WHO created me like Him that desires to love and be loved?

GOD is Love.
GOD is the source of Love.
GOD loves us.
GOD desires for us to know He loves us and desires to be loved by us.

He does NOT base His Love for us on our behavior......while we were sinners, He died for us to save us from eternal death and made a place for us to be with Him forever!

GOD just wants us to say, “Yes! I choose You, Jesus save me, I want to know Love...I want to love and be loved by GOD!!!”

Dear Heavenly Father,

I receive the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ that takes away my sin and reconciles me to the Father. Seal, baptize and fill me with Your Holy Spirit. I want to know You and love You God in such a way that only Your Word and Spirit can show me.......show me.......engulf and show me the magnitude of Your Love for me........in the Name of Jesus, amen.

ESV 1 Corinthians 12:31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.

ESV John 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

1 Corinthians 13
English Standard Version The Way of Love

1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned,[1] but have not love, I gain nothing. 4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;[2] 6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

 

[JamOn]

Life On Velvet Emotion

I will try to give you a succinct answer.

THE OLD TESTAMENT
The Old Testament was already established as Scripture by the time Christ came into the world. And it is the resurrected Lord who established the validity of the Hebrew Tanakh and its 24 books (our 39 books). Here is what is recorded in Luke 24:44: And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in [1] the Law of Moses, and in [2] the Prophets, and [3] in the Psalms, concerning me. Those are the three main divisions of the Hebrew Bible: Torah (5 books), Neviim (8 books), and Ketuvim (11 books). By limiting divine revelation to those 24 books, Jesus defined the canon of the OT. That automatically excluded the Apocrypha.

THE NEW TESTAMENT
1. Peter confirmed by divine revelation that all of the epistles of Paul were Scripture (along side the Hebrew Scriptures). That is over half the NT.
2. Luke affirmed that his Gospel was "from above". We may therefore conclude that Acts was also divinely inspired.
3. John indirectly stated that his Gospel and epistles were also inspired. And clearly Revelation is indeed divine revelation.
4. Peter said that his epistles were prophetic (therefore divine revelation). He also defined the meaning of prophecy.
5. That leaves us with Matthew, Mark, James, and Jude. These books were being circulated in the apostolic churches (as were all the epistles). The proof of the NT canon being what we have is in the 2nd century Aramaic translation of the Bible (called the Peshitta) and also in the 2nd century Muratori Canon (which is incomplete).

There was some dispute about the epistle of Barnabbas, but in the end it was excluded.

That’s a solid answer thanks for posting,

 

[crossnote]

You quoted me but said...nothing.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
For quite a few years after my conversion I sincerely believed that the fruit
of the Spirit spoken of in Gal 5:22-23 is produced by the Spirit. It's not. The
obligation is upon the hearers of Christ's teachings to produce the fruit.
(Matt 13:18-23 and Heb 6:7-8)

Take for example love (Gal 5:22). The Greek word in that verse is agape
(ag-ah'-pay) which doesn't necessarily pertain to affection. It can also
pertain to benevolence; roughly defined as things like kindness, generosity,
assistance, charity, help, courtesy, lenience, tolerance, consideration,
sympathy, and such. Those are behaviors that anyone can practice if they
put their mind to it.

This goes way back; for example:

"For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice" (Hos 6:6)

Some folk honestly believe that Hosea repealed the entire God-given book of
Leviticus but what he actually said is that God prefers to see people be
humane to each other rather than rely upon religious rituals to obtain favor
with God.

In other words: Christians out there waiting on the Spirit to empower them
to be nice to people; are going to be very disappointed because just the
opposite: He's the one waiting.

"Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it
says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a
man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes
away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But the man who looks
intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not
forgetting what he has heard, but doing it-- he will be blessed in what he
does." (Jas 1:22-25)

For example:

"If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on
his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless." (Jas 1:26)
_

 

[karen0123]

.
For quite a few years after my conversion I sincerely believed that the fruit
of the Spirit spoken of in Gal 5:22-23 is produced by the Spirit. It's not. The
obligation is upon the hearers of Christ's teachings to produce the fruit.
(Matt 13:18-23 and Heb 6:7-8)

Take for example love (Gal 5:22). The Greek word in that verse is agape
(ag-ah'-pay) which doesn't necessarily pertain to affection. It can also
pertain to benevolence; roughly defined as things like kindness, generosity,
assistance, charity, help, courtesy, lenience, tolerance, consideration,
sympathy, and such. Those are behaviors that anyone can practice if they
put their mind to it.

This goes way back; for example:

"For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice" (Hos 6:6)

Some folk honestly believe that Hosea repealed the entire God-given book of
Leviticus but what he actually said is that God prefers to see people be
humane to each other rather than rely upon religious rituals to obtain favor
with God.

In other words: Christians out there waiting on the Spirit to empower them
to be nice to people; are going to be very disappointed because just the
opposite: He's the one waiting.

"Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it
says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a
man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes
away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But the man who looks
intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not
forgetting what he has heard, but doing it-- he will be blessed in what he
does." (Jas 1:22-25)

For example:

"If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on
his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless." (Jas 1:26)
_

 

[karen0123]

Philippians 4:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

 

[tantalon]

.
For quite a few years after my conversion I sincerely believed that the fruit
of the Spirit spoken of in Gal 5:22-23 is produced by the Spirit. It's not. The
obligation is upon the hearers of Christ's teachings to produce the fruit.
(Matt 13:18-23 and Heb 6:7-8)

Take for example love (Gal 5:22). The Greek word in that verse is agape
(ag-ah'-pay) which doesn't necessarily pertain to affection. It can also
pertain to benevolence; roughly defined as things like kindness, generosity,
assistance, charity, help, courtesy, lenience, tolerance, consideration,
sympathy, and such. Those are behaviors that anyone can practice if they
put their mind to it.

This goes way back; for example:

"For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice" (Hos 6:6)

Some folk honestly believe that Hosea repealed the entire God-given book of
Leviticus but what he actually said is that God prefers to see people be
humane to each other rather than rely upon religious rituals to obtain favor
with God.

In other words: Christians out there waiting on the Spirit to empower them
to be nice to people; are going to be very disappointed because just the
opposite: He's the one waiting.

"Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it
says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a
man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes
away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But the man who looks
intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not
forgetting what he has heard, but doing it-- he will be blessed in what he
does." (Jas 1:22-25)

For example:

"If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on
his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless." (Jas 1:26)
_

Good teaching and right on. I hope the members take what is being said as the word of God, and listen up.

 

[posthuman]

.
For quite a few years after my conversion I sincerely believed that the fruit
of the Spirit spoken of in Gal 5:22-23 is produced by the Spirit. It's not. The
obligation is upon the hearers of Christ's teachings to produce the fruit.
(Matt 13:18-23 and Heb 6:7-8)

Take for example love (Gal 5:22). The Greek word in that verse is agape
(ag-ah'-pay) which doesn't necessarily pertain to affection. It can also
pertain to benevolence; roughly defined as things like kindness, generosity,
assistance, charity, help, courtesy, lenience, tolerance, consideration,
sympathy, and such. Those are behaviors that anyone can practice if they
put their mind to it.

so you're saying that no one actually needs the Holy Spirit in order to have the fruit of the Holy Spirit in their lives -- all they need to do is "put their mind to it" ?

some people's Christianity has very little Christ in it. some people's 'indwelling of the Holy Spirit' amounts to no more than an imitation of a spirit that they construct in themselves by their own willpower. but Biblical Christianity is supernatural, pertaining to things received from God not things accomplished by human effort or cleverness.

i meet a lot of people who appear to be afraid that if it is up to God to redeem a man, God will fail - so they essentially preach Moses to them rather than Christ, neglecting that Moses himself testifies of Christ. Who parted the sea? and this isn't to say, we don't have to lift up our feet and walk through it -- but the way only becomes open to us in which to walk because the power of God makes it so, and only becomes known to us because The Angel of God leads us onward through it. they did not repair their own sandals in the wilderness; the LORD prevented them from wearing out.

 

[posthuman]

Good teaching and right on. I hope the members take what is being said as the word of God, and listen up.

why would i take "you don't need God, you need gumption" as the word of God?

 

[Webers.Home]

.

so you're saying that no one actually needs the Holy Spirit in order to have
the fruit of the Holy Spirit in their lives -- all they need to do is "put their
mind to it" ?

Yes; and it's been that way practically since the very beginning.

● Gen 4:6-7 . . Then Jehovah said to Cain: Why are you angry? Why is your
face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you
do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you,
but you must master it.

Christians are told pretty much the very same thing.

● Rom 6:12-13 . . Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye
should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as
instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as
those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of
righteousness unto God.

● Rom 8:12-15 . . .We have an obligation-- but it is not to the sinful nature, to
live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die;
but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,
because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

● Col 3:5-9 . . Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly
nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is
idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in
these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must rid yourselves of all
such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from
your lips. Do not lie to each other,

Here's another.

● Gen 6:3 . . .Then Jehovah said: My Spirit shall not strive with man forever

That's a caution; and it applies just as much to Christians today as it did to
the antediluvians then.

● 1Thess 5:19 . . Quench not the Spirit.
_

 

[JamOn]

Good teaching and right on. I hope the members take what is being said as the word of God, and listen up.

Why what is wrong do you feel as members are not listening, that was kind of thrown out there.

 

[posthuman]

● Gen 4:6-7

you really think Cain is an example of a follower of Christ having received the gift of the Holy Spirit?

Rom 6:12-13

what's the "therefore" there for in these verses? because you have died in Christ already, right?
how? by works or by the profound & supernatural baptism with which the Spirit enjoins us to Him in His death?

Rom 8:12-15

not denying the obligation to walk in a way as befits the literal supernatural event that happens in the true Christian.
objecting to & disputing the idea that the Spirit is something 'achieved by works done through human willpower'

Col 3:5-9

what's the "therefore" there for in these verses? because of something God has done or because of something you have accomplished by a righteousness achieved through works? because you "put your mind to it" or because God gave you something out of the richness of His mercy?



if you don't take these things out of their context & misapply them, i think you will find that the prodding toward doing what is right in the NT is in order that our lives reflect the very real facts of the thing the Spirit has worked in us. you are saying, you achieve the work of the God through your own will & effort. you are wrong. what did God say about the people when He walked among them? they honor Him with their mouths, but their hearts are full of evil. certainly you are able to put on an outward show of gentleness and peace. but Who is it that is able to change your evil heart, so that these things flow out as a fountain from it?
not you. not any man. man, without God, is able to counterfeit the actual fruit of the Spirit of God -- but man without God is the son of the father of lies, having will-worship and an outward show of wisdom while dead and putrid underneath.

the Christian walk is not a matter of feigning niceties. it is a supernatural happening, and the children of God are called by Him and radically changed by Him with His mighty power - He calls them to walk according to the Spirit, not according to their own self-imposed insincere behavioral modification. if you are loving your neighbor only because a law constrains you to, are you a Christian or a just a competent actor?

 

[posthuman]

Gen 6:3

you really think those people His Spirit was striving with in the years leading up to the flood are equivalent to followers of Christ with the Holy Ghost dwelling in their hearts?

1Thess 5:19

how you going to quench something that you describe as having literally no usefulness or actual effectiveness?
who cares if you quench a fire that isn't even doing as little as keeping anyone warm to begin with?

 

[Diakonos]

The world sees love differently than God does.

Its because they don't see God

 

[Blade]

Well WE know whats written and how to say it. Jesus ask the 12.. who do they say I am? And then Christ.. ok ok.. but who do YOU say I am?

I don't think .. well believe I can ever know love unless I have a personal real experience with Christ and then live it or ..I don't see it dying but getting buried by the things of this world. To look back and.. your so humbled because.. it was never me. Thanks for posting John 3 16. So everlastingly thankful He sent His son. Or I would never know

 

[Webers.Home]

.

who cares if you quench a fire that isn't even doing as little as keeping
anyone warm to begin with?

The quenching spoken of is that of snuffing out a candle. Back in those days,
nobody as yet had artificial lighting powered by electricity.

For example:

"They refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their
ears, that they should not hear. Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant
stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which The Lord of hosts
hath sent in His spirit by the former prophets." (Zech 7:11-12)

It's surprising the number of Christians out there who honestly believe they
can get away with quenching the Spirit and still be tight with God.

● 1John 1:6 . . If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the
darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.
_

 

[posthuman]

It's surprising the number of Christians out there

It's surprising the number of people who think they are the ones who do the things that only God can do.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
There's been times during my twenty-plus years of internet forum activity
when I've encountered people wanting to know what they're supposed to do
now that they decided to become a Christian.

A mega Baptist church that I attended back in the decade of the 1970's had
a discipleship program that incorporated an outreach booklet called "The
Four Spiritual Laws" authored in 1952 by Campus Crusade for Christ founder
Dr. Bill Bright.

Those guidelines are helpful as far as they go, but they're pretty elementary
and in my opinion inadequate for taking Christ's followers to infinity and
beyond, so to speak.

Some years ago, just for the fun of it, I set out compiling a home-spun
catalogue of Christ's instructions from the new Testament that apply to all
his followers regardless of denominational affiliation. In time I realized that
his instructions, accompanied by a little commentary, would make a pretty
good devotional.

The catalogue was severely excoriated online (by Christians no less) for
making their belief system a religion of law rather than grace; so I reminded
my critics that Jesus' instructions are for obeying rather than just knowing,
viz: people truly loyal to the Lord will comply with his instructions whereas
those disloyal won't.

● John 14:15 . . If you love me, you will comply with what I command.

● John 14:21 . .Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one
who loves me.

● John 14:23-24 . . If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching . . He who
does not love me will not obey my teaching.

● John 15:14 . .You are my friends if you do as I wish.

FAQ: Where did you find the Lord's instructions?

A: In the New Testament epistles.

● 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let
him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the
commandments of The Lord.

● 1Thess 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by The Lord
Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please
God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments
we gave you by The Lord Jesus.
_

 

[Webers.Home]

.

It's surprising the number of people who think they are the ones who do the
things that only God can do.

● 1John 5:3 . . .This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his
commands are not burdensome.

For example: here's one of God's commandments that's easily obeyed by
anybody with a mind to.

● Col 4:6 . . Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt

Grace can be defined as kind, courteous, inclined to good will, generous,
charitable, altruistic, compassionate, sympathetic, thoughtful, cordial,
affable, genial, sociable, cheerful, warm, sensitive, hospitable, considerate,
and tactful.

It seems to me from the language and grammar of Matt 5:13, Mark 9:50,
Luke 14:34, and Col 4:6, that the primary purpose of salt is to enhance
flavor and make otherwise naturally insipid and/or bad-tasting things
palatable, viz: salt can be thought of as diplomacy; roughly defined as
conversation that makes an effort to maintain peace rather than provoke
conflict and/or annoy people and make them uncomfortable.

Do you honestly mean to tell me that you can't keep a civil tongue in your
head without divine empowerment because it's something that only God can
do?
_

 

[posthuman]

Do you honestly mean to tell me that you can't keep a civil tongue in your
head without divine empowerment because it's something that only God can
do?

Out of the heart the mouth speaks. You can honor God with your lips by the force of your gumption even while you curse Him in your heart, but who is going to change your heart?

And we are talking about the gift of the Holy Spirit not about whether man is capable of self-editing their own outward behavior. If you maintain that you can exhibit the fruit of the Holy Ghost without any need for the Holy Spirit to bear His own fruit in you then you are preaching godless facsimile of redemption, not redemption.

Christianity is supernatural. Not a carnal outward imitation through will worship, having an appearance of wisdom but powerless to restrain the lust of the flesh in one's heart. An actual literal and effective work of a very real and active and living God.

You can toss your 'self-help' books in the trash.