Luke 16:16 Law & Prophets until John

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FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
908
306
63
#1
Law & Prophets until John

1) Law reference: Gen, Ex, Lev, Num, Deut.

2) Prophets reference: the rest of scripture UNTIL John the Baptist appears.

3) All the books written by Moses & the other prophets, point to the coming of the promised Messiah. See Lk 24:44 below

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
(MY NOTE: John announces Messiah's arrival. And a transition from OT to NT begins)

Other scripture references on the Law & Prophets

Luke 24:
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Matt 5:
7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
(MY NOTE: Here scripture confirms/validates John 1:29-34 teaching)

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
(MY NOTE: Rom written to NT believers (Rom 1:7). The righteousness of God written of by Moses & the prophets is now revealed separate from/without the works of the law)
 
Jun 11, 2020
1,371
421
83
69
#2
Law & Prophets until John

1) Law reference: Gen, Ex, Lev, Num, Deut.

2) Prophets reference: the rest of scripture UNTIL John the Baptist appears.

3) All the books written by Moses & the other prophets, point to the coming of the promised Messiah. See Lk 24:44 below

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
(MY NOTE: John announces Messiah's arrival. And a transition from OT to NT begins)

Other scripture references on the Law & Prophets

Luke 24:
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Matt 5:
7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
(MY NOTE: Here scripture confirms/validates John 1:29-34 teaching)

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
(MY NOTE: Rom written to NT believers (Rom 1:7). The righteousness of God written of by Moses & the prophets is now revealed separate from/without the works of the law)
Nice little study you made there. Well done. What do you make of ...
  1. the word "until"
  2. the rest of the verse which says that in place of the Law and the prophets, the Kingdom is preached
  3. the rest of the verse which says that the Kingdom must be "pressed into" - indicating that it is not automatically granted
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
4,367
1,026
113
#3
Law & Prophets until John

1) Law reference: Gen, Ex, Lev, Num, Deut.

2) Prophets reference: the rest of scripture UNTIL John the Baptist appears.

3) All the books written by Moses & the other prophets, point to the coming of the promised Messiah. See Lk 24:44 below

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
(MY NOTE: John announces Messiah's arrival. And a transition from OT to NT begins)

Other scripture references on the Law & Prophets

Luke 24:
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Matt 5:
7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
(MY NOTE: Here scripture confirms/validates John 1:29-34 teaching)

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
(MY NOTE: Rom written to NT believers (Rom 1:7). The righteousness of God written of by Moses & the prophets is now revealed separate from/without the works of the law)

Thanks alot i have two studies iam currently doing.......now three.....my wife is going to kill us😂😂😂
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
908
306
63
#4
Nice little study you made there. Well done. What do you make of ...
  1. the word "until"
  2. the rest of the verse which says that in place of the Law and the prophets, the Kingdom is preached
  3. the rest of the verse which says that the Kingdom must be "pressed into" - indicating that it is not automatically granted
Law & Prophets until John

1) Law reference: Gen, Ex, Lev, Num, Deut.

2) Prophets reference: the rest of scripture UNTIL John the Baptist appears.

3) All the books written by Moses & the other prophets, point to the coming of the promised Messiah. See Lk 24:44 below

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
(MY NOTE: John announces Messiah's arrival. And a transition from OT to NT begins)

I highlighted until as being time sensitive. I noted on Lk 16:16 a transition. From a promise, to an arrival, to a death, resurrection & ultimately a NT indwelling of Christ's Holy Spirit.

I made no reference to anything being granted or not. My read on that portion of the verse, would be, a door that would be opened & many would press to enter therein. JJ
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
6,635
1,211
113
#5
Law & Prophets until John

1) Law reference: Gen, Ex, Lev, Num, Deut.

2) Prophets reference: the rest of scripture UNTIL John the Baptist appears.

3) All the books written by Moses & the other prophets, point to the coming of the promised Messiah. See Lk 24:44 below

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
(MY NOTE: John announces Messiah's arrival. And a transition from OT to NT begins)

Other scripture references on the Law & Prophets

Luke 24:
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Matt 5:
7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
(MY NOTE: Here scripture confirms/validates John 1:29-34 teaching)

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
(MY NOTE: Rom written to NT believers (Rom 1:7). The righteousness of God written of by Moses & the prophets is now revealed separate from/without the works of the law)
The Law and the Prophets told Israel that their Messiah, in the form of the Son of God himself, would come. (2 Samuel 7:12-16)

John was the final prophet that will be announcing to Israel the coming of their Messiah.

When he finally came and performed those signs to prove his identity, Israel was suppose to leap for joy and believe that he is that Messiah.

That was what Luke 16:16 meant.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
646
99
28
#6
Perhaps the acts of the law can only save themselves, but the righteousness of God is different and gives life,this is not work of The law but work of faith. Romans 4:3-6
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,354
1,337
113
#7
By trying to understand each verse of Paul's without understanding Jesus first, and listening to Paul's conclusions, only muddies the waters.

Paul was a Pharisee, trained in the top university, a prize pupil. He follows the way he was trained. He was trained to argue a point and follows each argument pf pros and cons of an argument with the conclusion. It is the conclusion we must understand and Paul always uses the words he was trained to use "the Lord forbid". as he makes his conclusion. We are not to get stuck in the pro and con of the arguments and ignore the conclusions.

Romans 6:2 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin live any longer therein?

Romans 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Certainly not! Instead, we uphold the law.

Romans 11: 1 Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.”
 
Jun 11, 2020
1,371
421
83
69
#8
Luke 16:16

"The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

This verse is set in a unique setting - MONEY. In Chapter 15 we have the Parable of the Prodigal son. He took his inheritance and squandered it on himself. Though he was a son, and is received back as a son, he was a rotten STEWARD of his father's goods. Chapter 16 is a continuation of the Prodigal son in regards to his STEWARDSHIP. The Chapter and verse divisions in the bible are not found in the original texts. The language of Chapter 16 is the same as Chapter 15 - "a man who wasted his father's/master's goods". Chapter 16 ends with a TRUE STORY. When the Bible gives proper names, the story really happened. Abraham was a real man and is in Hades. Lazarus is named - therefore a real man. If our Lord Jesus, Who is "truth", told that Abraham did something he didn't actually do, He would be lying (perish the thought). Lazarus and the rich man is a true story.

The THREE narratives show that a man who is given wealth must use it in the best interests of His MASTER/FATHER. Nowhere in scripture does God abrogate His OWNERSHIP of all things. He is maker and OWNER of the universe. He is maker and owner of all men. He is doubly OWNER of Israel and the Church because He made them AND redeemed them. An Israelite and a Believer are God's property and bond-slaves. If they are given money by God, they have to use it in the service of God. They may take for necessity, and they may take for joy, but they must get PERMISSION. This is all with a view to the COMING KINGDOM where God will remove Gentile power and rule and set up a Kingdom where His servants rule for Him. It is called, "the Millennial Kingdom"!

The way the Gentiles ruled the earth was totally corrupt. God's Kingdom carries His Name, so He will not allow men and women any position in His Kingdom who will bring it into disrepute! The coming Kingdom is a REWARD for those who served well NOW, and the coming Kingdom is to bless "all families of the earth" by GOOD EQUITABLE RULE. So our Lord Jesus gives two Parables and one true story of the MANAGEMENT OF WEALTH IN OUR LIFETIMES.

The Law
The Law set forth the way in which God wanted Israel to be managed. In Deuteronomy 15 the case of Lazarus and the rich man is regulated. The rich man used his money for Himself. He dies and his wealth is gone. He is placed in active perdition. He pleads but is told that his brothers "have Moses". He broke the Law concerning wealth and God will take revenge for the mismanagement of His wealth. Money was a reward for keeping the Law, but God, by Law, retains power over it.

The Prophets
The prophets were sent when the kings of Israel failed. They spoke for God. They warned Israel of their breaking of the Law. They threatened Israel and it came to pass. They predicted God's mercy and a Messianic age in which God would make a New Covenant of Law to best manage Israel's daily life for the good of Israel.

John Baptist
John Baptist introduced Baptism. His Baptism was to show that Israel under Law had failed, and that the only reasonable future for Israel was that the old way was good only to be buried in the death waters. John not only showed the end of the old way of Law, but offered and announced a Lamb of God which would take away their sin. And John not only showed the end of Law, and that Israel needed to have their sins removed, but that this Lamb was offering them the Kingdom of Heaven. That is, Israel had the chance to be kings over the nations and manage God's affairs for Him. Israel refused to admit their sinful ways, rejected the Lamb, murdered the Lamb, and rejected the Kingdom that He, the Lamb, offered.

The Kingdom
A "Kingdom" is any sphere where a certain king lives and exercises his authority. When our Lord Jesus came, He attacked the root cause of Israel's crisis - their sins. He did not attack their governors - Rome, but he attacked the powers behind Rome, and the powers behind Israel's sins - Satan, fallen angels and demons - the "Principalities". But Israel showed no inclination to be part of God's recovery. So Christ, their King, removes Himself from the sphere of Israel and retires to heaven to build another people who will rule for Him. This is the Church and both the Church take time to build and the members of the Church need time to be trained in how to manage their Master's goods.

Presseth
From the three narratives surrounding Luke 16:16, it is at once evident that the natural tendency of a fallen man is to spend his Master's goods on himself. So Mathew 19 advises us that it is almost IMPOSSIBLE for a rich man to be qualified for kingship in the coming Kingdom of Heaven on earth. What then will it take for men who have means to enter this Kingdom as co-kings with Jesus? The answer is VIOLENCE! The man of means must be violent with his desires. He must learn to DENY HIMSELF. He must treat his desires with MALICE. The Kingdom will be entered ONLY by men who set their own will aside, and do the will of the King. This EFFORT to get into the Kingdom by applying TOTAL SELF-DENIAL is how a man PRESSES to get into the Kingdom. The Greek word for "presses" is "biazo", and it is rendered as "VIOLENCE" in Matthew 11:12.

"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force."
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
29,974
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#10
When he finally came and performed those signs to prove his identity, Israel was suppose to leap for joy and believe that he is that Messiah.
the law and the prophets say that they would neither leap for joy nor believe who He is. the Stone the builders rejected. Psalm 118.
He must first be pierced, lifted up like the brazen serpent. Zechariah 12, Numbers 21.

they will not see Him again until they say blessed is He that comes in The Name of the LORD. also Psalm 118.

God declared it from the beginning, Genesis 3. Genesis 1. evening comes before morning.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,354
1,337
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#11


John Baptist
John Baptist introduced Baptism. His Baptism was to show that Israel under Law had failed, and that the only reasonable future for Israel was that the old way was good only to be buried in the death waters. John not only showed the end of the old way of Law, but offered and announced a Lamb of God which would take away their sin. And John not only showed the end of Law, and that Israel needed to have their sins removed, but that this Lamb was offering them the Kingdom of Heaven. That is, Israel had the chance to be kings over the nations and manage God's affairs for Him. Israel refused to admit their sinful ways, rejected the Lamb, murdered the Lamb, and rejected the Kingdom that He, the Lamb, offered.

."
Thanks for this wonderful study. I do think you are wrong with one aspect, for you say Israel was under law for the forgiveness of sin.

When the Lord gives forgiveness of sin it is ONLY through Christ. The sacrificial system was a shadow of Christ, a shadow is a dim outline of what it is shadowing not a distortion. It is only through grace we have forgiveness of sin and that system was all about the forgiveness of sin.

When we read scripture, we must know it is always truth, there is no scripture that is not truth. It is the truth that no one has ever been forgiven of sin through obedience to the law, it is only through grace.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
29,974
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#12
The Law and the Prophets told Israel that their Messiah, in the form of the Son of God himself, would come. (2 Samuel 7:12-16)

John was the final prophet that will be announcing to Israel the coming of their Messiah.

When he finally came and performed those signs to prove his identity, Israel was suppose to leap for joy and believe that he is that Messiah.

That was what Luke 16:16 meant.
what happened is what was supposed to happen, and what was supposed to happen, happened.
Then He said unto them,
O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into His glory?
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.
(Luke 24:25-27 kjv)
And He said unto them,
These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning Me.
Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them,
Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things!
(Luke 24:44-48 kjv)
He'll come again. He's always intended this.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
6,635
1,211
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#13
the law and the prophets say that they would neither leap for joy nor believe who He is. the Stone the builders rejected. Psalm 118.
He must first be pierced, lifted up like the brazen serpent. Zechariah 12, Numbers 21.

they will not see Him again until they say blessed is He that comes in The Name of the LORD. also Psalm 118.

God declared it from the beginning, Genesis 3. Genesis 1. evening comes before morning.
Jesus's first recorded miracle was at a wedding, turning water into wine, which indicated Israel's celebration at the presence of their King.

Likewise, Peter's first miracle was healing the lame man from birth. Peter, or rather the Holy spirit, performed that sign, specifically for the nation Israel. Israel as a nation has been lame from birth and rejected the covenant, and they just killed their Messiah.

But the good news, or the gospel that Peter preached to Israel is this, if they were to repent for all those sins, they can look forward to entering the promised kingdom when Jesus returns for them in the 2nd coming, jumping and with great joy, just like this lame man they just witnessed who was also lame from birth.

A beautiful sign for the nation Israel and fits well with what Peter would later preached to Israel in Acts 3:19-21.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
29,974
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#14
Jesus's first recorded miracle was at a wedding, turning water into wine, which indicated Israel's celebration at the presence of their King.
yes and there He said,

what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come!
(John 2:4)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
29,974
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#15
Peter's first miracle was healing the lame man from birth.
is that really the first? he had walked on water a couple times prior to this. some say that was extraordinary. Jesus said Peter had superhuman knowledge, too. and i think they all cast out demons at some point iirc?
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
6,635
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#16
is that really the first? he had walked on water a couple times prior to this. some say that was extraordinary. Jesus said Peter had superhuman knowledge, too. and i think they all cast out demons at some point iirc?
I would say, its the Holy Spirit's first miracle to the nation Israel. That is why in Acts 7, the nation rejected the Holy Spirit when they stoned Stephen.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
29,974
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#17
Israel as a nation has been lame from birth and rejected the covenant, and they just killed their Messiah.
no one can kill God. He lays His life down, and He takes it up again.
it's by so doing, that He heals them -- yes! a wonderful sign, marvelous in their eyes. also Psalm 118 ;)
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
6,635
1,211
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#19
no one can kill God. He lays His life down, and He takes it up again.
it's by so doing, that He heals them -- yes! a wonderful sign, marvelous in their eyes. also Psalm 118 ;)
Acts 2:36

Acts 3:15

Acts 3:17

I am repeating what Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, spoke to Israel.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
29,974
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#20
Acts 2:36

Acts 3:15

Acts 3:17

I am repeating what Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, spoke to Israel.


Acts 2:36 -- "you had crucified"
Acts 3:15 -- "
you put to death"
Acts 3:17 -- "
I know you acted in ignorance"


Acts 3:18 -- "these things God has showed before through His holy prophets, that Christ should suffer"

and Christ said, no one takes His life from Him. He lays it down and He takes it up again. John 10:18, John 2:19, John 10:11, John 15:13. a servant is not greater than his Master -- Matthew 10:24, John 13:16 & John 15:20


as i've been saying :)