Many are called but few are chosen
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most people never read Verse 17.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes on him might not perish, but have life eternal.
17 For God sent not the Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.
that is the Entire World from Beginning to End!
but that the world might be saved through him.
^
notice, [[might be Saved]], God knew most would reject and deny Him. but he still died for them anyways.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes on him might not perish, but have life eternal.
17 For God sent not the Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.
that is the Entire World from Beginning to End!
but that the world might be saved through him.
^
notice, [[might be Saved]], God knew most would reject and deny Him. but he still died for them anyways.
You're defacing the image of God in claiming, "I wasn't smart enough". Of course you were smart enough. He created you in His image, which is smart. You chose to act foolishly and go your own way. And when you (re?)turned to him after He let you go as far as you could stand this side of death, He readily received you as His beloved child. This is the same regard He offers anyone that lays it to their heart that He is God, Who abounds in grace and forgiveness as He says of Himself.
All of that chapter is beautiful for context. Well done.😊💕✝️🕊️📖
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 9&version=ESV,MOUNCE
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 9&version=ESV,MOUNCE
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I believe you have the wrong perspective of the situation. WHen Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they developed a conscience which is handed down to all of their descendants. Where there is no law, there is no transgression. We are all born with this knowledge of right and wrong and therefore are under the curse of the Law. In God's kingdom there is perfect justice and mercy. Perfect justice dictates that we all be condemned. If God condemns everyone, then He would not be merciful. If He saved everyone, there would be no justice. His only choice is to save a few.
Concerning your comment about Pharaoh, I agree with you. God uses his Holy Spirit and Christ to perform His will. He can soften someone's heart with His Spirit or harden it by removing His Spirit.
Concerning your comment about Pharaoh, I agree with you. God uses his Holy Spirit and Christ to perform His will. He can soften someone's heart with His Spirit or harden it by removing His Spirit.
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P
Yes. Throughout scripture God reveals His love for all of His creation. Some people take these verses to mean that no one is lost but that is not the correct understanding either.
Whosoever will indicates choice and we see that as the standard for our response to the gospel. The OT history of the Israelites drives home that truth over and over and over again. In fact Jesus makes clear that God's intent is to save but people turn away.
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, murdering the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a mother fowl gathers her brood under her wings, and you refused! Matthew 23:37
Whosoever will indicates choice and we see that as the standard for our response to the gospel. The OT history of the Israelites drives home that truth over and over and over again. In fact Jesus makes clear that God's intent is to save but people turn away.
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, murdering the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a mother fowl gathers her brood under her wings, and you refused! Matthew 23:37
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i just would like to say before we begin I am also enjoying our conversation and believe it is Faith building and confirmation of our beliefs.
with that said, last night i examined Romans 9:17-25 deeper and discovered something very important. Verse 22 [[((Now what if God, willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known))]], endured with much patience vessels of wrath designed for destruction? ...reveals the key here.
look at this portion carefully here.
[[((Now what if God, willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known))]]
what if......this is not the normal thing God does. He only does this in Special Occasions for Specific Reasons to make His "Power Known." like Verse 17 mentions Pharaoh.
but day to day life being born, this [[((WHAT IF))]] is not happening. God is not showing His Power any more so all can see like He did when He brought Israel out of Egypt. He will at Armageddon after His Second Coming = will be when He demonstrates His Power to ALL to see.
so to say this is happening over and over and applying this Verse that god is making some people go to Hell and some to Believe in Him is False Doctrine because He [[[no longer is showing His Power]]].
but what we do have happening TODAY since Jesus DBR are these 2 solid principles.
1. not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2. For God sent not the Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.
with that said, last night i examined Romans 9:17-25 deeper and discovered something very important. Verse 22 [[((Now what if God, willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known))]], endured with much patience vessels of wrath designed for destruction? ...reveals the key here.
look at this portion carefully here.
[[((Now what if God, willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known))]]
what if......this is not the normal thing God does. He only does this in Special Occasions for Specific Reasons to make His "Power Known." like Verse 17 mentions Pharaoh.
but day to day life being born, this [[((WHAT IF))]] is not happening. God is not showing His Power any more so all can see like He did when He brought Israel out of Egypt. He will at Armageddon after His Second Coming = will be when He demonstrates His Power to ALL to see.
so to say this is happening over and over and applying this Verse that god is making some people go to Hell and some to Believe in Him is False Doctrine because He [[[no longer is showing His Power]]].
but what we do have happening TODAY since Jesus DBR are these 2 solid principles.
1. not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2. For God sent not the Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.
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absolutely not!
i know why God has hardened a select FEW, like one we read and maybe a couple more outside of Pharaoh. other than that, God is pure LOVE, Mercy, and Grace, Longsuffering!
even in the Garden God showed His Love, Mercy, Grace, and Longsuffering towards Adam and Eve.
Ephesians Chapter 1 tells us BEFORE the Earth was ever made we were already in Christ Jesus. so before God Spoke the Earth into existence, He was already working End to Beginning. He already was going to Sacrifice Himself for our SINS through Jesus in Ephesians 1 before He ever created Earth and then Adam and Eve.
Now, I am not saying God won't demonstrate His Power and use it on a few people. but a few people is a handful. not Billions for the purpose of going to Hell. that would make God a Liar in John 3:16-17 For God sent not the Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. ...the key in Verse 16 WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH WILL NOT PERISH!
i know why God has hardened a select FEW, like one we read and maybe a couple more outside of Pharaoh. other than that, God is pure LOVE, Mercy, and Grace, Longsuffering!
even in the Garden God showed His Love, Mercy, Grace, and Longsuffering towards Adam and Eve.
Ephesians Chapter 1 tells us BEFORE the Earth was ever made we were already in Christ Jesus. so before God Spoke the Earth into existence, He was already working End to Beginning. He already was going to Sacrifice Himself for our SINS through Jesus in Ephesians 1 before He ever created Earth and then Adam and Eve.
Now, I am not saying God won't demonstrate His Power and use it on a few people. but a few people is a handful. not Billions for the purpose of going to Hell. that would make God a Liar in John 3:16-17 For God sent not the Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. ...the key in Verse 16 WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH WILL NOT PERISH!
How does an Unsaved person be obedient to the HOLY SPIRIT seeing how we all come short of the glory of GOD?
Reminds of the rich young ruler asking JESUS what must I do to be saved telling JESUS that he has kept the 10 commandments and JESUS told him that he was still lacking.
John 3:19
King James Version
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
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John 12:46
King James Version
I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
Reminds of the rich young ruler asking JESUS what must I do to be saved telling JESUS that he has kept the 10 commandments and JESUS told him that he was still lacking.
John 3:19
King James Version
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
+++
John 12:46
King James Version
I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
So, your response is John 3:16. Let's review the Scripture.
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
Both reformed and non-reformed Christians agree that "whosoever believes in Christ" will be saved. Period. End of story.
This doesn't speak in any way to man's natural ability to choose Christ in his unsaved state.
When we look at the passages of Scripture that specifically speaks to man's ability to choose without a specific act of God working in him, we see a resounding no, man is so steeped in his sin he cannot respond in the positive to Christ, not in truth. For sin yes, money, power, position, reputation etc. But not simply for love of God.
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
God took what was dead, made us alive and raised us up with Jesus and seated us, by Grace you have been saved.
God - not man making a good choice.
The conversion of Lydia in Acts shows this clearly.
On the Sabbath we went outside the city gate to the river, where we expected to find a place of prayer. We sat down and began to speak to the women who had gathered there. One of those listening was a woman from the city of Thyatira named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth. She was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message. When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home. “If you consider me a believer in the Lord,” she said, “come and stay at my house.” And she persuaded us. Acts of the Apostles 16:13-15
The Lord made her able to respond, and she was saved.
everything the Bible teaches us is that we have no natural ability to respond positively to Christ. We are so steeped in our sin, sin is the object of our natural desire and it literally takes God to change our very desire, our heart and our minds, to save us out of that.
Jesus is now putting His enemies under His feet (Psalm 110:1), who wouldn't have enemies at all if everyone born was in Covenant. There's a general calling being given to everyone the Church can reach, and some from every tribe, nation and tongue will be saved..
But those who remain unsaved to death will always choose sin. They have no natural ability to choose anything else, their only desire is for sin... And they want it with everything they are, happily, willingly.
Another thing to consider is how John uses the term “the world” in John 4:42.
Many Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me all that I ever did.” So when the Samaritans came to him, they asked him to stay with them, and he stayed there two days. And many more believed because of his word. They said to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this is indeed the Savior of the world.” John 4:39-42
In this passage, when the Samaritans say that Jesus is the “Savior of the world,” they are saying that Jesus is the savior of not only the Jews, but also the Gentiles. They are surprised that Jesus would reach out to a Samaritan woman, when Samaritans were looked down upon by the Jews.
It simply makes far more sense to believe that the Samaritans are using the word “world” to refer to not only the Jewish group of people, but also people who were not Jews (for example, the Samaritans), than that they are referring to every individual person in the world.
Thus, we can conclude that if John is using the term “the world” in this fashion in John 4:42, it is more likely that he is also using this sense of “the world” (“not just the Jews, but also the Gentiles”) in other places (for example, in John 3:16) than that he is using it to refer to “every individual person” in other places.
Jesus' Covenant is with the saved, and only the saved. It's not with everyone. And salvation of souls is an act of God, He chooses His disciples.
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
Both reformed and non-reformed Christians agree that "whosoever believes in Christ" will be saved. Period. End of story.
This doesn't speak in any way to man's natural ability to choose Christ in his unsaved state.
When we look at the passages of Scripture that specifically speaks to man's ability to choose without a specific act of God working in him, we see a resounding no, man is so steeped in his sin he cannot respond in the positive to Christ, not in truth. For sin yes, money, power, position, reputation etc. But not simply for love of God.
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
God took what was dead, made us alive and raised us up with Jesus and seated us, by Grace you have been saved.
God - not man making a good choice.
The conversion of Lydia in Acts shows this clearly.
On the Sabbath we went outside the city gate to the river, where we expected to find a place of prayer. We sat down and began to speak to the women who had gathered there. One of those listening was a woman from the city of Thyatira named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth. She was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message. When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home. “If you consider me a believer in the Lord,” she said, “come and stay at my house.” And she persuaded us. Acts of the Apostles 16:13-15
The Lord made her able to respond, and she was saved.
everything the Bible teaches us is that we have no natural ability to respond positively to Christ. We are so steeped in our sin, sin is the object of our natural desire and it literally takes God to change our very desire, our heart and our minds, to save us out of that.
Jesus is now putting His enemies under His feet (Psalm 110:1), who wouldn't have enemies at all if everyone born was in Covenant. There's a general calling being given to everyone the Church can reach, and some from every tribe, nation and tongue will be saved..
But those who remain unsaved to death will always choose sin. They have no natural ability to choose anything else, their only desire is for sin... And they want it with everything they are, happily, willingly.
Another thing to consider is how John uses the term “the world” in John 4:42.
Many Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me all that I ever did.” So when the Samaritans came to him, they asked him to stay with them, and he stayed there two days. And many more believed because of his word. They said to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this is indeed the Savior of the world.” John 4:39-42
In this passage, when the Samaritans say that Jesus is the “Savior of the world,” they are saying that Jesus is the savior of not only the Jews, but also the Gentiles. They are surprised that Jesus would reach out to a Samaritan woman, when Samaritans were looked down upon by the Jews.
It simply makes far more sense to believe that the Samaritans are using the word “world” to refer to not only the Jewish group of people, but also people who were not Jews (for example, the Samaritans), than that they are referring to every individual person in the world.
Thus, we can conclude that if John is using the term “the world” in this fashion in John 4:42, it is more likely that he is also using this sense of “the world” (“not just the Jews, but also the Gentiles”) in other places (for example, in John 3:16) than that he is using it to refer to “every individual person” in other places.
Jesus' Covenant is with the saved, and only the saved. It's not with everyone. And salvation of souls is an act of God, He chooses His disciples.
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first of all, John is repeating the Words of Jesus in 3:16-17.
so we must VIEW this from God, not from John because this is a direct statement from God himself.
secondly, to CHOOSE has nothing to do with our ability to seek God out before God seeks us out first. to Choose means once we are presented to the Truth about God, we have a choice. Joshua said this day [[((CHOOSE WHO YE WILL SERVE))]]. the God i serve is the SAME in Joshua's Day, my current day, and forever on. Joshua presented God to the Israelites and then said CHOOSE. we are presented God by preaching/teaching/HEARING of the Word and God invites us to Himself. We either submit, which is CHOOSING, or we deny.
that is simply how it works and has always worked.
so we must VIEW this from God, not from John because this is a direct statement from God himself.
secondly, to CHOOSE has nothing to do with our ability to seek God out before God seeks us out first. to Choose means once we are presented to the Truth about God, we have a choice. Joshua said this day [[((CHOOSE WHO YE WILL SERVE))]]. the God i serve is the SAME in Joshua's Day, my current day, and forever on. Joshua presented God to the Israelites and then said CHOOSE. we are presented God by preaching/teaching/HEARING of the Word and God invites us to Himself. We either submit, which is CHOOSING, or we deny.
that is simply how it works and has always worked.
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