Mark of the beast is sunday laws.

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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Revelation 13:1 KJV
(1) And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

What is blasphemy according to the Bible?
1. Claiming to be God
2. Claiming to be able to forgive sins
that was the confederacy between imperial rome and the herods.

over.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
Okay, I will inquire about the Exodus 20 passage.

Exodus 20:8-10

[SUP]8 [/SUP]“Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Six days you shall labor and do all your work, [SUP]10 [/SUP]but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who [SUP][e][/SUP]stays with you.

Since God says "six days you shall labor", are we to work for six days out of the seven? This is part of the Sabbath command. It cannot be divorced from the rest of the text. Therefore we must work Sunday-Friday, and rest on Saturday only. If where I work is not open on Sunday, then must I find something to do (work in the yard, etc.) so I will not rest on Sunday. This is God's command regarding the Sabbath keeping, not the Pharisees'.

In all the articles I read on "how to keep the Sabbath" (including the one linked here), there are just so many variations on how to keep the Sabbath, but none of them follow God's way of keeping it (stay where you are, no fires, etc.) according to His word. I understand the Pharisees done some twisting to the "rules", but what I am talking about is God's very words. It seems there is so much confusion on the do's and don't of the Sabbath, by Sabbath keepers. And we know who IS NOT the author of confusion.

What about the penalty of breaking the Sabbath?

Exodus 31:12-15
[SUP]12 [/SUP]The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, [SUP]13 [/SUP]“But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death.

Are we to execute people for violating the Sabbath? I mean, this is just as much of a command of God as keeping the Sabbath. It does not say the person shall surely die, it says he shall be PUT to death, like the man of Numbers 15.

Numbers 15:32-36

[SUP]32 [/SUP]Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the sabbath day. [SUP]33 [/SUP]Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation; [SUP]34 [/SUP]and they put him in [SUP][p][/SUP]custody because it had not been [SUP][q][/SUP]declared what should be done to him. [SUP]35 [/SUP]Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” [SUP]36 [/SUP]So all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him [SUP][r][/SUP]to death with stones, just as the Lord had commanded Moses.

Are we to do this? Putting someone to death is just as much a command as keeping the Sabbath. The penalty cannot be divorced from the law. How are we to deal with this? Since Jesus did not do away with (become) the Sabbath, we have to abide by everything concerning the Sabbath, right? Or can we pick and choose the parts of the Sabbath we obey?
You know? I would have to respond to this the same as I would concerning what should happen to people who commit adultery after Christ's death and resurrection. What did Christ do about the adulterous woman that was about to be stoned, which was in accordance with the old laws? He sent them away and told her she was forgiven and to GO AND SIN NO MORE. In other words, don't be committing adultery again. The death sentence stopped with Christ's coming. That's true of all sin.
 
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BeanieD

Guest
As for me, When God created everything, there were no sundays mondays etc. On the seventh day God rested from all his work.
I believe that as long as we set aside one day for worship to God, it doesn't matter which day of the week it is. God worked 6 days and rested the 7th, we work 5-6 days and rest on our seventhl. There are a lot of jobs that even as we work we are doing the will of God. Caregivers ( drs. nurses, cna, etc. in ther health care field) and they can't take the time off because the care and life of these people depend totaly on those who perform this work. There are other kinds of things that would make for bad situations if persons didn't work on the week-ends. I believe that God is with us always no matter what we do and when we take the day to worship even though we should worship every day with our praise, prayer, and the way we live our lives.
 
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danschance

Guest
Or maybe they just continued reading the book of Acts and seen this

"17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean , behold , the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate, 18 And called , and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there. 19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold , three men seek thee. 20 Arise therefore, and get thee down , and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them. 21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said , Behold , I am he whom ye seek : what is the cause wherefore ye are come ? 22 And they said , Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee. 23 Then called he them in , and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him. 24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them , and had called together his kinsmen and near friends. 25 And as Peter was coming in , Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. 26 But Peter took him up , saying , Stand up ; I myself also am a man. 27 And as he talked with him, he went in , and found many that were come together . 28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company , or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. "
Well, the big problem with this view is you just ignored the content and context of the vision. I agree that humans are not considered clean or unclean. Yet you missed the larger ramifications of what is being said, which is the entire concept of clean or unclean no longer exists.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
As for me, When God created everything, there were no sundays mondays etc. On the seventh day God rested from all his work.
I believe that as long as we set aside one day for worship to God, it doesn't matter which day of the week it is. God worked 6 days and rested the 7th, we work 5-6 days and rest on our seventhl. There are a lot of jobs that even as we work we are doing the will of God. Caregivers ( drs. nurses, cna, etc. in ther health care field) and they can't take the time off because the care and life of these people depend totaly on those who perform this work. There are other kinds of things that would make for bad situations if persons didn't work on the week-ends. I believe that God is with us always no matter what we do and when we take the day to worship even though we should worship every day with our praise, prayer, and the way we live our lives.
This question here is what does Christ want from us. Obviously care-giving and nursing fall in the category of pulling your sheep out of the ditch. Those are things that are necessary, caring for people who must be cared for on sabbath is not the same as just working to increase our bank accounts. But again, the sabbath issue is about "what does Christ want of us?" It's not about what we feel about it.
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
Well, the big problem with this view is you just ignored the content and context of the vision. I agree that humans are not considered clean or unclean. Yet you missed the larger ramifications of what is being said, which is the entire concept of clean or unclean no longer exists.
The thing I was responding to was this "Peter's vision of unclean food = people is a classic example of cult mindset."

How is it I am ignoring any content or context?....that's what I provided. I only underlined anything for emphasis in response to the above quotation.
 

vic1980

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
1,653
199
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Here somthing to put a smile on everyone face :) random [video=youtube;vs_lALohIxo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs_lALohIxo[/video]
 
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danschance

Guest
The thing I was responding to was this "Peter's vision of unclean food = people is a classic example of cult mindset."

How is it I am ignoring any content or context?....that's what I provided. I only underlined anything for emphasis in response to the above quotation.
My apologies. I misunderstood your post.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Here somthing to put a smile on everyone face :) random [video=youtube;vs_lALohIxo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs_lALohIxo[/video]
that....is....adorable!!:D ty
 
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Shiloah

Guest
Here somthing to put a smile on everyone face :) random [video=youtube;vs_lALohIxo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs_lALohIxo[/video]
This is stinking cute. :D
 
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Shiloah

Guest
The thing I was responding to was this "Peter's vision of unclean food = people is a classic example of cult mindset."

How is it I am ignoring any content or context?....that's what I provided. I only underlined anything for emphasis in response to the above quotation.
I myself am not sure what to think about the food issue. I'm not entirely sure why God would use unclean meats in Peter's vision if the vision didn't actually involve unclean meats at all. I do avoid those for health reasons though. Let's face it; unclean meats just plain aren't healthy.
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
I myself am not sure what to think about the food issue. I'm not entirely sure why God would use unclean meats in Peter's vision if the vision didn't actually involve unclean meats at all. I do avoid those for health reasons though. Let's face it; unclean meats just plain aren't healthy.
Under the Levitical Priesthood, there were a number of animals that were considered clean or unclean to eat. Peter, Paul, and the rest of the Apostles were probably very familiar with all of the Dietary laws under the old covenant. Jesus is a Priest after the Order of Melchizedek so it's unlikely in my opinion that the vision had anything to do with actual food.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
[FONT=&quot]Something just occurred to me. I repeatedly see accusations thrown at different denominations on this site. Obviously, this is characteristic of the entire Christian world at this point in time. People are continually told to watch out for this cult or that cult or church, because those churches all supposedly teach false doctrines.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]My answer to that is this: charge right out there and check um out! If you can’t feel free to check the truth out about these denominations, then you’ve got serious problems. By the way, I’m saying check them out thoroughly. If you’re looking on the internet for answers, check out what these denominations themselves say about their own beliefs. There’s always tons of garbage thrown by people at different denominations. Again, you need to question those denominations themselves before you pass judgment on them. Even contact them personally so you can discuss their beliefs with them. Again, if you’re not able to listen to what they say by comparing their claims with scriptures so as to determine for yourself what you think, how do you know what you already think about these doctrines is true? If you don’t know enough about scriptures to determine for yourself these truths, why are you choosing other human beings to determine truth for you?
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If we don’t know the scriptures well enough to understand why we believe what we ourselves believe in all areas to the point that we can defend against all opposition our beliefs by way of scriptures and sound reasoning, Satan and his followers can lead any one of us all over the place and we won’t know the difference. [/FONT]
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Yes and we're still waiting for you to have "ears to hear" and "study up" so that you repent from your false assertions and gain a genuine exegesis. But at least you appear to be done screeding that we're all a "brood of vipers" for the moment. We'll take that anyways and I don't dance, I just have limited time.

I've already clearly refuted your false assertion that Christians are bound to the old covenant Mosaic Law that God had with the ancient nation of Israel using scripture. Christ stated that He came to fulfill the old covenant Mosaic Law and the Prophets which He did declaring "It is finished." [John 19:30].

Some reference verses: Matthew 5:17-19; Too Slender of a Reed to Support Seventh-Day Sabbatarianism

Yes, it IS finished. From Genesis 15:1–6 it is clear that the patriarchs did not merely put their trust in God (as simple theists); they rested their faith in the “seed” promised to Abraham (in lieu of Abraham’s offer to adopt his Arab servant Eliezer). To this same Lord the psalmist turned for deliverance when he was beset by some unspecified suffering and anguish.

Yet the psalmist’s suffering was merely illustrative of the suffering that would come to the Messiah. What happened to David in his position as head of the kingdom over which the Lord himself would one day reign was not without significance for the kingdom of God. To attack David’s person or realm, given that he was the carrier and the earnest of the promise to be fulfilled in Christ’s first and second comings, was ultimately to attack God’s Son and his kingdom.

Small wonder, then, that this psalm was on Jesus’ mind as he hung on the cross. The so-called fourth word from the cross, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” and the sixth word, “It is finished,” come from the first and last verses of this psalm. Not only is the first verse quoted in two Gospels, but Psalm 22:7–8 is clearly alluded to in Matthew 27:39, 43; Psalm 22:18 is quoted directly in John 19:24 and in part in Matthew 27:35, Mark 15:24 and Luke 23:34; and Psalm 22:22 is quoted directly in Hebrews 2:12. The final verse, Psalm 22:31, is cited, in part, in John 19:30.

The God in whom David’s forefathers trusted, The promised Messiah, is the same one to whom David entrusted his life during times of savage attacks. And those attacks were only a foreshadowing of what the Messiah himself would one day face. But triumph was certain; the dominion of the coming One would be realized (Ps 22:28). Just as God sat down and rested at the conclusion of creation, there would be a day when the Lord would cry, “It is finished!” as the Law and the Prophets were fulfilled and redemption completed. Yet even this would be only a foretaste of the final shout of triumph in Revelation 21:6 over the fulfillment of the new heavens and new earth: “It is done.”

Twisting that to mean Jesus Christ, the Messiah who died for the sin of the world, is going to condemn everyone who worships him on Sunday is patently unscriptural and absurd and people who say such heretical nonsense should be ashamed of themselves for misrepresenting His gospel so.

As Rachel shared, Hebrews 7:18 explicitly states that before Christ can become our High Priest there must first be a setting aside of the former commandment. Christ cannot bring in the New Covenant without making the first covenant obsolete. "But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." [Hebrews 8:13].

On and on and on it goes... yet you misrepresent verses to try and prove that God's plan of redemption; Jesus Christ's life, death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and gift of God never fulfilled the Mosaic Law and the Prophets even though that's what He came to do as the Bible clearly says repeatedly He did. You are not paying attention to the words of Christ: "It IS finished!"

And Christ didn't write the words you posted "with his own hand." His followers recorded what He did and said. Specifically, though the first Gospel is anonymous, it is clear that it was ascribed to Matthew the apostle by the end of the first century A.D. with patristic tradition agreeing with this ascription. Please DO take an introduction to the New Testament class instead of name calling everyone that corrects you.

Now let's deal with your wrong understanding of Mathew 5:19 yet again but from a different lens. Throughout the Synoptic tradition Jesus combines a profound respect for the ancient commandments of the Law (especially the Decalog) with new and radical words of his own (that are never called “commandments”) that focus or reinterpret the commandments of the Law.

Jesus warns his disciples that “whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” Jesus has just spoken of “the Law and the Prophets” (5:17) or simply “the Law” (5:18), both with reference to the Hebrew Scriptures. The “least of these” is equivalent to “any of these” and stands in a long Jewish tradition that resisted all distinctions between major and minor commandments in the Law which the Pharisees were not respecting because they had divided the precepts of the law into lesser and greater teaching that they who violated the former were guilty of a trivial offence only.

But Christ teaches that in his kingdom they who make this distinction should be called least. That's what it's saying in the original language in its proper context. This doesn't translate to your misinterpretation that everyone is bound to the letter of the old covenant Mosaic Law God had with the ancient nation of Israel before Jesus fulfilled it and ushered in a new covenant and you are wrong to teach that it does.

As the Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels asserts, "Yet this appearance is deceptive, for Matthew intends just the opposite. Later in his Gospel, Jesus will say, “On these two commandments [i.e., love for God and love for neighbor] depend all the law and the prophets” (22:40). It is precisely by obeying the two great commandments that a person obeys all the commandments, even the “least” (cf. the so-called Golden Rule of Mt 7:12: “So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets”)."

Is it starting to sink in yet? Do we have a pulse?

Your exegesis is wrong and I would love to keep going and address all of the scriptures you pull out of context (and honestly it's starting to look like you pull almost the entire Bible out of context) into a proper historical and hermeneutical context for you but my a family member has cancer and I have to take care of them in line with Matthew 22:40. Bye for now.


I think it's amazing that you didn't pay any attention to those words of Christ I posted. He was speaking of those commandments He wrote with His own hand. Very few do in here because that doesn't work for the Sunday keepers. Do a dance all around so you don't have to do as Christ said. But that does reveal who you love and who you don't. Among you 3300 viewers with ears to hear, let them hear! Matthew 5:19 So if you break the smallest commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God's laws and teaches them will be great in the Kingdom of Heaven. John 14:15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments." Revelation 14:12 This means that God's holy people must endure persecution patiently, obeying his commands and maintaining their faith in Jesus. Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision (here's your distinction between the commandments and the mosaic law that was fulfilled) is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar (here's where my accusation towards you came from Age-of-Knowledge, from scriptures themselves), and the truth is not in him. 1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. *This is where the Mark of the Beast comes in. This is why they're all connected.* You have to care enough about these words put forth by Christ Himself to go in and really study up on His commandments. 1 Corinthians 7:19 clearly states there's a difference between the commandments and others written out by Moses. There were those written in Christ's own hand, and there were those that Moses wrote up that were not connected. But again, you actually have to care enough about what Christ wants to find out what the difference is, let alone do anything about it after the fact. For the behavior represented in this very forum towards people who strive to keep all 10 commandments is wholly representative of the abusive Sabbath keepers receive for simply doing what Christ said.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
And how arrogant to sweep under the rug all the gross heretical error of cults that leads people astray simply because obeying the Bible and correcting false teachers offends you. Yes they teach false doctrine. And birds of a feather flock together.


Something just occurred to me. I repeatedly see accusations thrown at different denominations on this site. Obviously, this is characteristic of the entire Christian world at this point in time. People are continually told to watch out for this cult or that cult or church, because those churches all supposedly teach false doctrines.
 
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Laodicea

Guest
Since gaining a masterful competency of the discussion at hand and its source isn't your thing, your video games await your return. Us adults will finish up.
I can see that you love yourself and think highly of your own opinions
 
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Laodicea

Guest
This topic has been side tracked into talking about other things than what the topic is about

Revelation 14:9-12 KJV

(9) And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
(10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
(12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

It is clear from these verses that those who keep the commandments of God will not receive the mark of the beast as seen in these texts, so what are the commandments of God?

Exodus 31:18 KJV
(18) And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
Revelation 11:19 KJV
(19) And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Revelation 15:5 KJV
(5) And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

The tables of testimony are the 10 commandments. Why are the 10 commandments mentioned in the Book of Revelation? They are mentioned as being in heaven, the tabernacle on earth was a copy the original is in heaven. That means the sabbath of the Lord is in there in the book of Revelation. The sabbath of the Lord is written in heaven and seen by John in vision.


Revelation 14:12 KJV

(12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

So reading the context what are the commandments of God in this text? Because those worship and keep the commandments of God will not receive the mark of the beast.
 
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danschance

Guest
Under the Levitical Priesthood, there were a number of animals that were considered clean or unclean to eat. Peter, Paul, and the rest of the Apostles were probably very familiar with all of the Dietary laws under the old covenant. Jesus is a Priest after the Order of Melchizedek so it's unlikely in my opinion that the vision had anything to do with actual food.
As I mentioned, I think it is partially about food. I think it is the end to the entire concept of clean verses unclean. I see the new ideals of grace and freedom from the law to be a better calling. Which sounds better to you? a) Obeying 613 rules because you have been ordered to do so. b) Every thought and action is based on doing them in Love for God or for fellow man?

If you love God you will try to what He wants without rebellion, without the burden of being coerced. Another way of putting it is a husband hands of list for her to do or a husband who allows her to make choices because she loves the husband and is trusted to act in a way that will be good for him? Is it better to force a child to hug his mother or would the mother prefer a hug from her child because he wants to show affection to her?
 
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danschance

Guest

Revelation 14:9-12 KJV

(9) And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
(10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
(12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

It is clear from these verses that those who keep the commandments of God will not receive the mark of the beast as seen in these texts, so what are the commandments of God?

Exodus 31:18 KJV
(18) And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
Revelation 11:19 KJV
(19) And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Revelation 15:5 KJV
(5) And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

The tables of testimony are the 10 commandments. Why are the 10 commandments mentioned in the Book of Revelation? They are mentioned as being in heaven, the tabernacle on earth was a copy the original is in heaven. That means the sabbath of the Lord is in there in the book of Revelation. The sabbath of the Lord is written in heaven and seen by John in vision.


Revelation 14:12 KJV

(12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

So reading the context what are the commandments of God in this text? Because those worship and keep the commandments of God will not receive the mark of the beast.

You complain that:
This topic has been side tracked into talking about other things than what the topic is about
..and then you say nothing that supports the "Mark of the beast is sunday laws"!

<facepalm>
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