Martin Luther's doctrinal heresy.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#41
Adam and Eve ate the fruit, but that doesn't mean they chose to do so of their own free will. That's simply not in the text.
Dear friend,
If Adam and Eve did not eat the fruit of their own free will, they were forced to do it. If they were forced to do it, they were not innocent. But they were innocent before they ate the fruit.
Calvinism teaches wrongly that God made Adam and Eve sin. Calvinism is sin (heresy) against the truth.
God bless you. In Erie Scott R. Harrington
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#42
Martin Luther's doctrinal heresy.

1. That man has no free will.

2. Therefore, that God works evil in man.

"COMMENTS ON ERASMUS' TREATMENT OF PASSAGES DENYING FREE WILL


"Evil in Man

"...Perhaps it will be asked how God can be said to work evil in us, in the same way He is said to harden us, to give us up to our desires, to cause us to err, etc.?
"We should indeed be content with the words of God and simply believe what they say, for the works of God are utterly indescribable. However, to humor Reason, i.e., human folly, I will just act the fool and the stupid fellow for once, and try by a little babbling, if I can make any impression upon it ...
"Now then, Satan and man, being fallen and abandoned by God, cannot will good things, i.e. things which please God or which God wills, but are ever turned in the direction of their own desires, so that they cannot but seek out their own ... So that which we call the remnant of nature in Satan and wicked man, as being the creatures and work of God, is not less subject to divine omnipotence and action than all the rest of the creatures and works of God. Since God moves and works all in all, He necessarily moves and works even in Satan and wicked man. But he works according to what they are and what He finds them to be, i.e,, since they are perverted and evil, being carried along by that motion of Divine Omnipotence, they cannot but do what is perverse and evil. Just as it is with a ma riding a horse lame on one foot or on two feet. His riding corresponds to what the horse is. That is, the horse moves badly. But what can the man do? He is riding this horse together with sound horses. This one goes badly, though the rest go well. But it cannot be otherwise, unless the horse be made sound.
"Here you see then that when God works in and by evil man, evil deeds result. Yet God cannot do evil Himself, for he is good. He uses evil instruments, which cannot escape the swat and motion of His Omnipotence. The fault which accounts for evil being done when God moves to action lies in these instruments which God does not allow to lie idle ... Hence it is that the wicked man cannot but always err and sin, because under the impulse of divine power he is not permitted to remain motionless, but must will, desire and act according to his nature ... We are subject to God's working by mere passive necessity ... God is incessantly active in all His creatures, allowing none of them to keep holiday ... He cannot but do evil by our evil instrumentality, although He makes good use of this evil for His own glory and for our salvation. ... God is God, for whose will no cause or reason may be laid down as its rule and measure. For nothing is on a level with it, not to speak higher. It is itself the measure of all things. If any rule or measure, or cause or reason existed for it, it could no longer be the will of God. What God wills is not right because He ought to or was bound to so will. On the contrary, what takes place must be right, because He so wills it." (pages 128-130: Winter, Ernst F., translator and editor. (1961). Erasmus - Luther- Discourse On Free Will. New York: Frederick Ungar Publishing Company, Inc.).

Here is Martin Luther's evil heresy: Luther says, wrongly, that God "cannot but do evil by our evil instrumentality ..." (page 130).

God cannot but do evil? No. Scripture says, "God is Light, and in Him is no darkness at all."
God does not and can not sin, or do evil, or cause evil, or will evil, or cause men or Satan or Satan's demons to do evil.

God save us all from the wickedness of Lutheranism.
"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!" (Matthew 18:6-7 NKJV).

Men by whom offenses come

Augustine of Hippo (endorses Filioque and original sin (guilt)

Pope Benedict VIII (first pope to endorse Filioque)

Martin Luther (denies free will and teaches God causes evil. and endorses justification by

faith alone and believes in false theory of scripture alone, and believes in Filioque)


God save us all in Christ Jesus. Christ says, "Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand." Amen.

In Erie PA USA August 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington

PS Yes, you can tell I am offended by false doctrines.


Friends,
"The Holy Scriptures are perhaps the summit of the Holy Tradition of the Church, but the greatness of the heights to which the Scriptures ascend is due to the great mountain upon which it rests. Taken from its context, within the Holy Tradition, the solid rock of Scripture becomes a mere ball of clay, to be molded into whatever shape its handlers wish to mold it. It is no honor to the Scriptures to misuse and twist them, even if this is done in the name of exalting their authority. ..." (page 28: Sola Scriptura; In the Vanity of Their Minds, by John Whiteford).
In Erie Scott R. Harrington PS God bless you in Christ our Saviour and Lord. Amen.


 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#43
Dear friend,
If Adam and Eve did not eat the fruit of their own free will, they were forced to do it. If they were forced to do it, they were not innocent. But they were innocent before they ate the fruit.
Calvinism teaches wrongly that God made Adam and Eve sin. Calvinism is sin (heresy) against the truth.
God bless you. In Erie Scott R. Harrington

Take it even further. If they were forced to do it. they are still innocent, and can't be held accountable for their sin. for it was not them who did it. It was the one who forced them to do it that sinned.
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#44
Since our will is in accord with the will of God, it's not truly free.


You're saying that if God is responsible, "we cannot be blamed for our sin." In other words, "Why does He still find fault?" And this is how he refutes it.

20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? (Romans 9:20-21)

But indeed, O Scotth1960, who are you to reply against God? We can indeed be blamed for our sin.
You are twisting St. Paul to destruction. You are taking Saint Paul out of context. St. Peter said people would misunderstand St. Paul. You are misunderstanding St. Paul to try to show God is the author of sin. St. Paul does not teach Calvinism.


Actually it's just the teaching of scripture.

No it isn't!

17 O Lord, why have You made us stray from Your ways, And hardened our heart from Your fear? Return for Your servants' sake, The tribes of Your inheritance. (Isaiah 63:17)

Friend,
This does not say God has led anyone astray. It just says Isaiah thinks that? It's Isaiah speaking, not God.
Scott





Actually I'm taking it in context, since it says "whom He wills He hardens." Who hardens? God does.

18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. (Romans 9:18)

So if it's God that hardens, that hardly constitutes free will.



You've yet to demonstrate any such thing.



The "church fathers" were Catholic so it's no surprise that they taught against the scriptures.

Friend,
This is where you show your folly.
The church Fathers were not papists. If by "catholic" you mean papist. The papists have stolen the word "Catholic". They are not Catholic. They're heretics.



"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect, that they also might rise again." -Ignatius

"And this food is called among us Euvcaristia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh." -Justin Martyr

"When, therefore, the mingled cup and the manufactured bread receives the Word of God, and the Eucharist of the blood and the body of Christ is made, from which things the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they affirm that the flesh is incapable of receiving the gift of God, which is life eternal, which [flesh] is nourished from the body and blood of the Lord, and is a member of Him?" -Irenaeus



That's interesting since I still haven't seen a single verse that supports the idea of the will being free.


8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8)

Luke 18:18 says faith, not Calvinism, and it should be translated "the faith", not just "faith".

There is no verse in the Bible that teaches God causes people to sin.

If God wills to harden people, then what are we to make of 2 Peter 3:9 and 1 Timothy 2:4? If

He wills to save all, how can He harden any one at all?

This talk of hardening in Romans 9 is in the context of the unbelieving Jews, who by their own free will choose not to believe in Jesus Christ. In a certain sense, there is hardening that is from God, as God gives people what they give God. They harden themselves, so God gives them the hardening they give God. In that sense, and not actively, there is hardening from God. Don't think one minute this means God makes anyone sin, or takes away their free will. People can choose not to be hardened by God. Otherwise Revelation 22:17 makes no sense. God would not invite people to come to Him if He intended to harden them so they couldn't come. God forbids no one from being saved. God give the offer of salvation to all people, and is no respecter of persons.

God bless you.

In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#45
Show me free will in the Bible.

(Hint: It's not in there.)
Dear friend,
Free will is in John 3:16 and Revelation 22:17. And in Joshua when Joshua says, "Therefore choose life".
If they can't choose life, Joshua would not have told them they should choose life.
And in many other Scriptures. It's in the Church Fathers, who are the infallible guide to the infallible Scriptures. Only John Calvin and Martin Luther and other determinist heretics like them deny free will.

See: "Concerning Free Will and Predestination" by Saint John of Damascus

http:// orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/exact_freewill.aspx

God bless you.

In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington