Matthew 6:14-15

[John146]

The Need for Repentance from Sin and Good Works as Evidence of Faith Have Been Affirmed by All the Main Branches of Protestantism As I documented elsewhere, all the main denominational branches of historic Protestantism have affirmed that repentance from sin must always accompany genuine faith, and that good works and a changed life will necessarily result from genuine faith. This teaching is found in the Reformed theologian John Calvin (1509–1564), the Lutheran Formula of Concord (1576), the Anglican/Episcopalian Thirty-Nine Articles (1571), the Presbyterian Westminster Confession of Faith (1646), the New Hampshire Baptist Confession (1833), the writings of John Wesley (1703–1791) the founder of Methodism, and the Assemblies of God Statement of Fundamental Truths (1916).27 Therefore, orthodox Protestant theology has historically disagreed with the distinctive beliefs of the Free Grace movement. In response to my statement that “the Free Grace movement today is not upholding the Reformation doctrine of sola fide or ‘justification by faith alone,’ ”28 Jeremy Edmondson replies, “We did not get this from the Protestant Reformation, but from the holy Scriptures.”29 His entire chapter30 argues that the leaders of the Protestant Reformation were mistaken with regard to several doctrines and therefore we need not follow their understanding of justification by faith alone.

Grudem, Wayne. Systematic Theology, Second Edition (p. 1346). Zondervan Academic. Kindle Edition.

Since when did these organizations get to set the doctrine for the church? I’ll stick with the Bible and leave man’s doctrine to man. Most of those you listed are calvinists anyway, false doctrine in itself.

 

[Magenta]

Mine is from no [Doctrine]. One day I heard a conversation between ministers and theologians and I caught a key point concerning the Lord's Prayer and God's Will being done. I just not only put it to the test, but I also believed by telling God every day let His Will be done that eventually a change would happen. I would see things happen that could not have happened by my own will. And now, I feel better in every area of my life and feel God is in more control than I am.

"We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves."

 

[Scribe]

Since when did these organizations get to set the doctrine for the church? I’ll stick with the Bible and leave man’s doctrine to man. Most of those you listed are calvinists anyway, false doctrine in itself.

I suppose the main point is that as men have discussed the finer points of the scriptures on subjects such as salvation by faith alone and how does repentance, and holiness tie in they have generally come to the same conclusions over and over again everytime the issue gets discussed. We are discussing it here.

To discuss it and then reject everyone else's explanation of what scripture says as not scripture but your own explanation as scripture is not very persuasive and is simply called belligerence by other thinkers. Everyone claims that their views are the correct interpretation of scripture. Your job is to explain why a particular scripture means what you say that it means.

You have presented an argument: (quoted in blue)

If one believes the sermon on the mount is doctrine for the body of Christ, then one must conclude that forgiveness is conditional on forgiving others. This would be a work of obedience.

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

I do not believe the sermon on the mount is Christian doctrine but rather doctrine for the Jew living in the millennium kingdom on earth where Christ will reign on the throne of David. The sermon on the mount is a kind of constitutional guide to living in this kingdom.

Your argument seems to suggest that you believe that "But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." cannot be taken as true for us today. That it applied to Jews. And that after Jesus died and rose again we can be saved by believing it and we can choose not to forgive others and we will still be forgiven.

Repentance toward God and faith in Jesus Christ is a condition of salvation and saying that it is a work is an illogical argument. It means that you don't understand what the word "works" meant in the context of Paul's arguments concerning the works or the Law.

Loving God with all your heart is still a condition of salvation and your thinking that would be a work is erroneous logic.

Believing that the facts about Jesus in the bible are true, like you believe that George Washington was the first US president will not save you. You misunderstood what Faith means.

Pull yourself out of the hperdespensationalist two gospels, mid acts, Free Grace, hyper grace, false teaching movement that are popular on youtube and stick to common sense logic when reading the scriptures. It is not that hard. It does require holiness. If you hold on to sins of the flesh and entertain the idea that it does not matter you will be driven to darkness and fall for fantasies. If you surrender completely and refuse to fulfill the lusts of the flesh even if it kills you because you love the Lord God with all your heart soul, mind and body, then Christ will flood you with light and you will know the truth. Holiness and sincerity is a requirement.

Many of those preachers that are telling people that you do not have to repent to be saved end up getting caught sleeping with prostitutes or some other scandal eventually. I have seen it many times over the past 40 years.

If you do not forgive those who trespass against you, you will not inherit the kingdom of God. If you insist on being a drunkard you will not inherit the kingdom of God. You believe that the facts about Jesus in the bible are true? You do well, even the devil believes they are true. That kind of Faith without works is dead.

 

[KingdomBrat]

"We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves."

It's awesome!
Those 2 words don't even begin to sum it all up. I not only could see and feel a visible change in my thoughts, how i reacted to others. But also could begin to see where the change in my thoughts were formulating during any conversation, in how to respond back positively, which was eye opening for me.
And then to be a first hand witness to changes happening around and affecting your personal and professional life makes you sad that it [took this long] before submitting your will to God. You regretfully realize what a life that you completely missed out on. That's how Amazing it is to be in God's Will.

 

[notuptome]

I suppose the main point is that as men have discussed the finer points of the scriptures on subjects such as salvation by faith alone and how does repentance, and holiness tie in they have generally come to the same conclusions over and over again everytime the issue gets discussed. We are discussing it here.

To discuss it and then reject everyone else's explanation of what scripture says as not scripture but your own explanation as scripture is not very persuasive and is simply called belligerence by other thinkers. Everyone claims that their views are the correct interpretation of scripture. Your job is to explain why a particular scripture means what you say that it means.

You have presented an argument: (quoted in blue)

If one believes the sermon on the mount is doctrine for the body of Christ, then one must conclude that forgiveness is conditional on forgiving others. This would be a work of obedience.

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

I do not believe the sermon on the mount is Christian doctrine but rather doctrine for the Jew living in the millennium kingdom on earth where Christ will reign on the throne of David. The sermon on the mount is a kind of constitutional guide to living in this kingdom.

Your argument seems to suggest that you believe that "But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." cannot be taken as true for us today. That it applied to Jews. And that after Jesus died and rose again we can be saved by believing it and we can choose not to forgive others and we will still be forgiven.

Repentance toward God and faith in Jesus Christ is a condition of salvation and saying that it is a work is an illogical argument. It means that you don't understand what the word "works" meant in the context of Paul's arguments concerning the works or the Law.

Loving God with all your heart is still a condition of salvation and your thinking that would be a work is erroneous logic.

Believing that the facts about Jesus in the bible are true, like you believe that George Washington was the first US president will not save you. You misunderstood what Faith means.

Pull yourself out of the hperdespensationalist two gospels, mid acts, Free Grace, hyper grace, false teaching movement that are popular on youtube and stick to common sense logic when reading the scriptures. It is not that hard. It does require holiness. If you hold on to sins of the flesh and entertain the idea that it does not matter you will be driven to darkness and fall for fantasies. If you surrender completely and refuse to fulfill the lusts of the flesh even if it kills you because you love the Lord God with all your heart soul, mind and body, then Christ will flood you with light and you will know the truth. Holiness and sincerity is a requirement.

Many of those preachers that are telling people that you do not have to repent to be saved end up getting caught sleeping with prostitutes or some other scandal eventually. I have seen it many times over the past 40 years.

If you do not forgive those who trespass against you, you will not inherit the kingdom of God. If you insist on being a drunkard you will not inherit the kingdom of God. You believe that the facts about Jesus in the bible are true? You do well, even the devil believes they are true. That kind of Faith without works is dead.

The real question remains if you have been born again and all things are made new how could you not forgive? How could you fail to repent if you are born again? How can you not serve the Lord Who saved you?

If you have problems then you need to get things straightened out with Christ not try to figure out a way to dance around them..

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[KingdomBrat]

The real question remains if you have been born again and all things are made new how could you not forgive? How could you fail to repent if you are born again? How can you not serve the Lord Who saved you?

If you have problems then you need to get things straightened out with Christ not try to figure out a way to dance around them..

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Those who are [free] in God answer in "free speech."
Those who have not submitted their will completely to God answer in "legalistic translation [they reason]."
It all boils down to lifestyle.
Which one you're trying to control vs the one you're freely living.

 

[throughfaith]

Those who are [free] in God answer in "free speech."
Those who have not submitted their will completely to God answer in "legalistic translation [they reason]."
It all boils down to lifestyle.
Which one you're trying to control vs the one you're freely living.

If you recieve Jesus on Monday but die later that same day you don't go to heaven half saved. The determining factor is being in Christ.

 

[KingdomBrat]

If you recieve Jesus on Monday but die later that same day you don't go to heaven half saved. The determining factor is being in Christ.

Christ and the Father are [One]. Submitting your will to the Father is acknowledging and affirming Christ. You cannot submit your will to the Father [until] you first accept Christ as Lord and Savior. By the time you submit to the Father, you've been [Bought and Paid for] by Christ.

 

[throughfaith]

Christ and the Father are [One]. Submitting your will to the Father is acknowledging and affirming Christ. You cannot submit your will to the Father [until] you first accept Christ as Lord and Savior. By the time you submit to the Father, you've been [Bought and Paid for] by Christ.

To recieve Jesus. John 1.12 its through faith in his death ,burial and resurrection. 1 cor 1.15 1-4 . Its what he accomplished on the cross . The moment a person believes this to receiving Jesus, he is saved .

 

[KingdomBrat]

To recieve Jesus. John 1.12 its through faith in his death ,burial and resurrection. 1 cor 1.15 1-4 . Its what he accomplished on the cross . The moment a person believes this to receiving Jesus, he is saved .

To when we first receive God, is not a lifestyle in God, but the first steps of a long process. When you're able to understand "why submitting to the Father is as [valuable] as it truthfully is," this typically means a lot of bumps and bruises you've endured during your journey/walk in God. Which is why "wanting to submit your will" to the Father is (now) becoming a [lifestyle].

 

[throughfaith]

Christ and the Father are [One]. Submitting your will to the Father is acknowledging and affirming Christ. You cannot submit your will to the Father [until] you first accept Christ as Lord and Savior. By the time you submit to the Father, you've been [Bought and Paid for] by Christ.

And what about ' receiving Jesus ' and receiving the Holy Spirit ?

 

[throughfaith]

To when we first receive God, is not a lifestyle in God, but the first steps of a long process. When you're able to understand "why submitting to the Father is as [valuable] as it truthfully is," this typically means a lot of bumps and bruises you've endured during your journey/walk in God. Which is why "wanting to submit your will" to the Father is (now) becoming a [lifestyle].

That's gobblygook speak . Have you recieved the Holy Spirit ?

 

[phil36]

Since when did these organizations get to set the doctrine for the church? I’ll stick with the Bible and leave man’s doctrine to man. Most of those you listed are calvinists anyway, false doctrine in itself.

I hope everyone can see the irony here?

 

[John146]

Repentance toward God and faith in Jesus Christ is a condition of salvation and saying that it is a work is an illogical argument. It means that you don't understand what the word "works" meant in the context of Paul's arguments concerning the works or the Law.

Where did I state this? I believe that repentance toward God and faith in Jesus Christ is what salvation is all about. It's a one time act of believing in the gospel that places one in the body of Christ, the new birth. From that point forward all believers should go on to good works in Christ, but some may not. It doesn't happen automatically. Some have their faith overthrown by false doctrine or the world. But the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal the Lord knoweth them that are his.

 

[KingdomBrat]

That's gobblygook speak . Have you recieved the Holy Spirit ?

The Holy Spirit leads you to the Father because He is the Testament to what Christ said on Earth. That 's the Beauty of seeing Individually how our Triune God works.

 

[throughfaith]

The Holy Spirit leads you to the Father because He is the Testament to what Christ said on Earth. That 's the Beauty of seeing Individually how our Triune God works.

Have you recieved the Holy Spirit ?

 

[CS1]

If one believes the sermon on the mount is doctrine for the body of Christ, then one must conclude that forgiveness is conditional on forgiving others. This would be a work of obedience.

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

I do not believe the sermon on the mount is Christian doctrine but rather doctrine for the Jew living in the millennium kingdom on earth where Christ will reign on the throne of David. The sermon on the mount is a kind of constitutional guide to living in this kingdom.

If one sees the "Sermon on Mount" Only for the Jews, why not the whole bible only for them? When Jesus said IF you do not forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also not forgive you. WE must look at the statement closely before HE said this.

Jesus was teaching the Disciples how to pray and WHAT will hinder your prayers. UNforgiveness should be as natural to us as it is with a Holy God.

Verse 6:12 " And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors." chapter 5 & 6, and 7 are unit chapters. the "Doctrine " (teaching) of the sermon on the mount is to all. Forgiveness is to all, the blessings apply's to all who do?

The teaching of Jesu are meant for all to do Matthew 7:28-29

28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

 

[KingdomBrat]

Have you recieved the Holy Spirit ?

You better believe it! It was a Glorious Moment. When the words I listened to from family preaching in Church in those precious sermons we had growing up. God came Alive to me. I still have that ultimate child like Belief in my Maker. It wasn't long after during a small setting, it was immediate family Bible Study that when we prayed, the Power of God just took over within me and filled me with His spirit.