Matthew 7:21-23

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#62
#62
disciplemike said:
not sure about that. I have tried to come away from man-made doctrine, and read Scripture the way it is written. It really challenges our Western traditions, but it is not the first time.
Click to expand...
A lot of things challenge our western way of thinking, for sure. But not our understanding of the law and it's rightful use. Law is for the unrighteous, not the righteous. The righteous are those who live by faith in Jesus Christ.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#63
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#63
disciplemike said:
no sir. not at all. I believe Shaul is often misunderstood, just like Peter warned us about.
Click to expand...
Oh, ok. Happy to hear that, because there are some who believe him to be a false apostle. By the way, Peter wasn't warning us about Paul, he was making a statement that some of Paul's writings were difficult to understand. Also, Paulos is his transliterated name, just as Yeshua is transliterated as Iesous in the Greek and as Jesus in English.
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

Banned
#64
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
22
0
#64
I have a better understanding of God's "law" that I had 20 years ago. God's law is perfect. It is for God's people. We were taught that it wasn't for us. Eve was taught the same thing.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#65
#65
disciplemike said:
I have a better understanding of God's "law" that I had 20 years ago. God's law is perfect. It is for God's people. We were taught that it wasn't for us. Eve was taught the same thing.
Click to expand...
Of course it is perfect, it expresses the perfect character of a perfect God. Which is why, for those who would think they can make themselves acceptable to a perfect God, the standard is perfection. Fail at even one point at any time and you fail to meet the demands of the law for perfection.
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

Banned
#66
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
22
0
#66
FreeNChrist said:
Of course it is perfect, it expresses the perfect character of a perfect God. Which is why, for those who would think they can make themselves acceptable to a perfect God, the standard is perfection. Fail at even one point at any time and you fail to meet the demands of the law for perfection.
Click to expand...
Ok, here is the thing. Justification is by faith in the Son of God. We know this. Does that mean we throw out the perfect instructions of God after we come to faith in the Messiah. God forbid. The "law" is not the opposite of "grace", not by a long shot.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#67
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#67
disciplemike said:
I have a better understanding of God's "law" that I had 20 years ago. God's law is perfect. It is for God's people. We were taught that it wasn't for us. Eve was taught the same thing.
Click to expand...
You are correct, God's law is righteous and holy, but we have sinful natures and are unable to meet the righteous requirements of the law. The good news is that Jesus came and met the righteous requirements of the law satisfying God's requirement for its fulfillment. Salvation is gained by acknowledging Christ as the One who provided salvation for us fully and completely. For He alone purchased mankind for God the Father. Our part is faith. And as we continue going from faith to faith, we are in the process of being sanctified, i.e. the process of becoming holy. Consequently, anyone who trusts in the works of the law will not enter into the kingdom of God, for then they are not trusting in Christ, but their own efforts.

But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
 
Last edited:
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#68
#68
disciplemike said:
Ok, here is the thing. Justification is by faith in the Son of God. We know this. Does that mean we throw out the perfect instructions of God after we come to faith in the Messiah. God forbid. The "law" is not the opposite of "grace", not by a long shot.
Click to expand...
But, something happened when we were saved, right? Christ comes to live in us. The law led us to Christ, so that now Christ can lead us from within. What the law was powerless to do, because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son.
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

Banned
#69
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
22
0
#69
Ahwatukee said:
You are correct, God's law is righteous and holy, but we have sinful natures and are unable to meet the righteous requirements of the law. The good news is that Jesus came and met the righteous requirements of the law satisfying God's requirement for its fulfillment. Salvation is gained by acknowledging Christ as the One who provided salvation for us fully and completely. For He alone purchased mankind for God the Father. Our part is faith. And as we continue going from faith to faith, we are in the process of being sanctified, i.e. the process of becoming holy. Consequently, anyone who trusts in the works of the law will not enter into the kingdom of God, for then they are not trusting in Christ, but their own efforts.
Click to expand...
We agree that salvation is by faith in the Son of God. That is not a sticking point here. What is wrong is the believers who believe in grace only as a way of life. That is hogwash. That is why (our) Western Church is so wacky and powerless. The adversary is whispering in ears, "you don't really have to obey God".
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

Banned
#70
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
22
0
#70
FreeNChrist said:
But, something happened when we were saved, right? Christ comes to live in us. The law led us to Christ, so that now Christ can lead us from within. What the law was powerless to do, because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son.
Click to expand...
What is the Holy Spirit for? To teach us how to walk in obedience to God, which will equate to power and blessings. This is Scriptural my friend.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#71
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#71
disciplemike said:
We agree that salvation is by faith in the Son of God. That is not a sticking point here. What is wrong is the believers who believe in grace only as a way of life. That is hogwash. That is why (our) Western Church is so wacky and powerless. The adversary is whispering in ears, "you don't really have to obey God".
Click to expand...
Anyone who trusts in their own efforts as a means for salvation will be rejected. We obey God when we follow Christ and are lead by the Spirit. But as far as salvation goes, it is solely through the One who shed His blood for us. When anyone trusts in their own efforts as a requirement along side of what Jesus did, then it is like saying that His sacrifice was insufficient.
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

Banned
#72
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
22
0
#72
Ahwatukee said:
Anyone who trusts in their own efforts as a means for salvation will be rejected. We obey God when we follow Christ and are lead by the Spirit. But as far as salvation goes, it is solely through the One who shed His blood for us. When anyone trusts in their own efforts as a requirement along side of what Jesus did, then it is like saying that His sacrifice was insufficient.[/QUOte

Does you faith in Jesus give you a license to sin? Sin is a violation of the law. So which is it?
Click to expand...
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#73
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#73
disciplemike said:
Ahwatukee said:
Anyone who trusts in their own efforts as a means for salvation will be rejected. We obey God when we follow Christ and are lead by the Spirit. But as far as salvation goes, it is solely through the One who shed His blood for us. When anyone trusts in their own efforts as a requirement along side of what Jesus did, then it is like saying that His sacrifice was insufficient.[/QUOte

Does you faith in Jesus give you a license to sin? Sin is a violation of the law. So which is it?
Click to expand...
I am not under the law and never have been. I have never en-devoured to keep the ten commands, to abstain from certain foods, to keep the Sabbath on Saturday or anything else under the law. As scripture states, the law was only meant to last until Christ came. Now that Christ has come, we are no longer under the law. Even Paul said that he stopped trying to meet the righteous requirements of the law. Not being under law does not give us a license to sin.
Click to expand...
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

Banned
#75
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
22
0
#75
Ahwatukee said:
Oh, ok. Happy to hear that, because there are some who believe him to be a false apostle. By the way, Peter wasn't warning us about Paul, he was making a statement that some of Paul's writings were difficult to understand. Also, Paulos is his transliterated name, just as Yeshua is transliterated as Iesous in the Greek and as Jesus in English.
Click to expand...
Why use transliterations? I will stick with Yeshua, and Shaul. Also, did you notice who Peter says misunderstands Paul? lawless men.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#76
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#76
disciplemike said:
Ahwatukee said:
Anyone who trusts in their own efforts as a means for salvation will be rejected. We obey God when we follow Christ and are lead by the Spirit. But as far as salvation goes, it is solely through the One who shed His blood for us. When anyone trusts in their own efforts as a requirement along side of what Jesus did, then it is like saying that His sacrifice was insufficient.[/QUOte

Does you faith in Jesus give you a license to sin? Sin is a violation of the law. So which is it?
Click to expand...
Not at all and that because I follow Christ. And when I sin, I confess my sins and he faithful and just to forgive me my sins and to cleanse me of all unrighteousness. Those who are truly in Christ are wrestling to overcome sin, but we are not under the law. Or as the NLT aptly puts it, "the best way to not break the law, is to have no law to break."
Click to expand...
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#77
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#77
disciplemike said:
Why use transliterations? I will stick with Yeshua, and Shaul. Also, did you notice who Peter says misunderstands Paul? lawless men.
Click to expand...
Yes, actually he said that those who distorted his letters were ignorant and unstable.
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

Banned
#78
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
22
0
#78
Ahwatukee said:
disciplemike said:
Not at all and that because I follow Christ. And when I sin, I confess my sins and he faithful and just to forgive me my sins and to cleanse me of all unrighteousness. Those who are truly in Christ are wrestling to overcome sin, but we are not under the law. Or as the NLT aptly puts it, "the best way to not break the law, is to have no law to break."
Click to expand...
If you follow Christ... Christ kept everyone of His Father's commandments. Then you tell me you never "en-devoured" to keep the commandments, but you confess when you do? hmmm. If you think you have no law to break, you are in a very bad position. And you keep contradicting yourself. I am not trying to be rude, but it is so much simpler when you just take the Scripture the way it is written.
Click to expand...
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#80
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#80
disciplemike said:
Ahwatukee said:
So you don't obey the commandments of God, so you will be sure of your salvation in the Son of God? It sounds confusing to me.
Click to expand...
As I said, I follow Christ and am lead by the Spirit. That being the case, I wrestle to keep my body under control and to abstain from sin as much as possible, yet I am not under the law, but under grace through faith. And yes, I am sure of my salvation and that because my faith is in Christ as the One who provided it.

"But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the Law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code."
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.