Matthew Chapter 24 ; Thoughts?

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heartofdavid

Guest
#41
Brother David.

In Matthew 24 it doesn't speak anything about the being caught up in the air.

But what we do see in Matthew 24, is Jesus Christ talking to His Disciples, about the Destruction of the Temple, and the times of tribulation that they would see, and that they would understand by the tribulation of the times that they would see (end-days) that they would understand how much closer the Lord Jesus Christ fixing to return. So they knew about the destruction of the temple would be drawing nearer. (The end of the Age of those days/Return of Jesus Christ)
Yes it does.
Around vs 36 it says "...the day and hour nobody knows..."
That is the rapture.
Then the next sentence is noah compared to the rapture.
It goes on to frame the rapture in the flood story.
Then the one taken,one left also the rapture
Then,to make sure you understand those 3 RAPTURE REFERENCES are framed in vs 42 or so, " watch therefore and be ready for the coming of the lord."....

Almost impossible to miss since those dynamics are all framed in the "watch and be ready" rapture verses.
 
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heartofdavid

Guest
#42
Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

I believe that this is the only time Jesus mentions the overthrow of Jerusalem,and He mentioned it because the disciples said look at these great buildings,and Jesus said they are coming down so do not think they are so great.

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Then Jesus went off to be on His own,and the disciples came to Him and asked what shall be the sign of His coming,and the end of the world,and surely the end of the world was not back in the first century.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

If it is a physical overthrow of Jerusalem why is Jesus warning them of spiritual deception,for Jesus came unto His own and His own did not receive Him,and Jesus said their house is left unto them desolate until they say blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord,so Israel as a nation did not turn to Jesus,and that is why the Roman Empire had power to overthrow them.

Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

How can the disciples hear of wars,and rumors of wars,and know nation shall rise against nation,and kingdom against kingdom,and of famines,and pestilences,and earthquakes,that occur on different parts of the world without technology to be able to observe and hear of what the world is doing,and what is going on in the world.

If there was not technology and it was back at their time how much are you going to know what is going on in the earth.Go outside and look around,for that is about all you know what is going on in the world.How are you supposed to know of nations going against each other,and kingdoms going against each other,and famines,and pestilences,and earthquakes,happening on different places of the earth.

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel did not understand what was told him,but was told to go his way,for the book is sealed until the time of the end,which means they will be able to understand it at the end time.

Because many shall run to and fro,advanced travel,and knowledge shall be increased,advanced technology,making it possible for the saints to hear,and see,and know of what is going on in the world,and to be able to understand how the world can come together as one which they will rebel against God.

The disciples at the time of Jesus would be in the same position as Daniel having a limited view of their world and would not be able to see,and hear,and know of things going on in the earth,so it would have to be in the future as now.

By technology we know of WW1,WW2,and wars,and hear of wars,and rumors of wars,and can know of the troubles that occur around the world.

Without technology what are you going to know.Not much but that your garden is growing some good tomatoes this year,and Junior dug a good hole with that stick he is playing with like they did back in the day.

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Also the saints shall be hated of all nations but how can they be hated of all nations if it is only in that area,and also if it is a physical overthrow of Jerusalem why does Jesus refer to a spiritual persecution,when the nation of Israel rejected Christ in their governmental,and religious,operation.

Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Again why the spiritual deception warning when it is a physical overthrow of Jerusalem for rejecting Christ,not for accepting Christ.

But at the time now we see the spiritual deception that applies,but mainly it is speaking of the new age movement,for the new age movement interpretation of the Bible is the beginning of the end and will lead the world to the beast kingdom where they rebel against God,for it is the time for God to end this sin business on earth,and He sure did not end it in the past for sin still goes on.

Also to point out the 70 weeks that people think was fulfilled in the first century and show that it is not true.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

70 weeks are determined upon Israel as a nation to accept Jesus as their Messiah.69 weeks have passed,and people debate about the 70th week,but the 70th week could of not been fulfilled for Israel as a nation has not accepted Jesus yet.

The 70th week is the time that God causes all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,and when they do repentance and salvation are no longer available to them,and God can end this sin business on earth,and bring Israel as a nation to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah fulfilling the 70 weeks.

That is why the Bible says Israel is blinded in part,until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in,and so all Israel shall be saved.

Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

How could that apply in the first century,but we see that it does apply today with the big flow of money,and material things,especially in America,that causes people to be selfish,and arrogant,with a me attitude,and then they do not like each other as much which can be testified by many people that point out the way it is today compared to how it was years ago.

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The Gospel shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations,but that could of not happened in the first century,but we can see it happening today,and with advanced technology,and travel,it can happen,for God will not give up on the world until the world gives up on Him,so He is not going to end this sin business on earth until all nations know and understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ,which could of not happened in the first century.

If it includes all nations,were the Native Americans saying in the first century,Ugh,me heareth of this thing they call the Gospel and me no like,let us gather ourselves,all tribes,and go attack them Jews who preach this thing called the Gospel.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The man of sin,the New Age Christ,will establish peace in the Middle East,and it will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel,and the Jews and the Gentiles will be separated,which is what the man of sins wants for the Jews to be in one place,Israel.

The Gentile nations will come together and say Peace and safety as they try to establish peace on earth,and operate by a ten horn kingdom which is the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,and a unified religious system based on the new age movement that is of the occult,nature worship,witchcraft,spiritual evolution through nature,and people can still evolve,and Jesus is not Lord and Savior,but a good teacher in spiritual enlightenment,and an ascended master,and do not honor a personal God,but honor the God of forces,or the power of nature as their higher power.

God warns us of the new age movement interpretation of the Bible,and the time will come that the world will not want to endure the truth of the Bible,but want to hear it according to the new age movement,spiritual evolution through nature to be greater than their current position.

That is where the spiritual deception comes in at concerning the end time.

Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The new age movement is about the power of nature,and witchcraft,and many paths to take to spiritual enlightenment,and practices,but all are valid,and can have many Christs,and false prophets,with the path they teach to people,for the time will come they will not want to hear the truth of the Bible,but according to their own lusts,power through nature,and will heap to themselves teachers,not teacher,but teachers,and will turn their ears from the truth,and be turned unto fables.

That is where the spiritual deception comes in at.

The new age movement is about witchcraft,and will lead the world to the beast kingdom,where the beast will convince the world that he harnessed the power of nature,and obtained power,evolved,and will share this power with all who follow him,and the false prophet will do miracles in the sight of the people to convince them that the first beast did harness the power of nature,and gave this power to the false prophet,so the world will believe that the beast will share this power with all who follow him,which is what the world was wanting by practicing the new age movement,unified religious system,spiritual evolution through nature.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The beast shall make war against the saints,and persecute all people who keep the commandments of God,and the testimony of Jesus Christ,and then the resurrection shall occur.

That is why the Bible says the saints cannot be gathered unto Christ until there is a falling away first,which this is when the world will not want to hear the truth of the Bible,which will happen by way of the new age movement unified religious system,and all religions interpreted by them,and religion is about evolution,and people are responsible for their own evolution,spiritual enlightenment,and a hate crime to try to convert someone to a belief not compatible,like preaching a personal God,which Christianity will rapidly decline in impacting the world with the truth,and the man of sin,New Age Christ,claims to be God which He will claim to be the Jews God and Messiah,and claim to be God to the world,which means he is the highest authority through the power of nature,and he acknowledges no personal God.

All prophesy has not happened in the first century,and Jesus is telling the saints about it,but He is directing it to the Jews in the future that have turned to Jesus as their Messiah,and a warning to all the saints.

The Bible says the new age movement will be in the latter days,and surely the latter days did not occur in the first century,and also the time will come when the world will only want to hear the Bible according to the new age movement interpretation of the Bible,which means they are not allowing the preaching of the Bible according to the belief in a personal God,and Jesus is Lord and Savior,but according to evolution,but the preaching of a personal God,and Jesus is Lord and Savior,did not stop in the first century,but it kept going on,so it is a future event when they make it international law,along with a man and a woman cannot marry for population reduction,and being a vegetarian for they worship nature.

Nah 2:3 The shield of his mighty men is made red, the valiant men are in scarlet: the chariots shall be with flaming torches in the day of his preparation, and the fir trees shall be terribly shaken.
Nah 2:4 The chariots shall rage in the streets, they shall justle one against another in the broad ways: they shall seem like torches, they shall run like the lightnings.

Nobody can argue that this is speaking of automobiles that shall be at the time of the Lord's preparation.They did not know to call them automobiles,but chariots is a form of transportation,and this form of transportation shall have lights,and shall rage in the streets,justle against one another in many lanes roads,close knit traffic,and shall travel fast.

Isa 31:4 For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.
Isa 31:5 As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it.

This appears to be the 6th day war,1967,when Israeli fighter pilots paved the way to win the war,and they took control of Jerusalem,which God is doing the plan of restoring Israel back to their land,all the Jews,so He can turn them to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.
About 2 thirds into your post you say "the ac persecutes the church....this is why there must be a falling away first"
Well re read it.
He KILLS THEM.
THEY ALL DIE.
Re read it. It changes your entire deal
 
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heartofdavid

Guest
#43
Look at Luke 24:21,,,then John 20:25,,,then Mark 16:12-14,,,then John 16:12, theres something I want to ask you.[/QUOTE>

This is what I ask,,,

In Matthew 24:3 they ask Jesus several things. They ask him when these things shall be(stone be left on stone),what the sign of thy coming(1st or 2nd?) and then of the end of the world(aionos or kosmou?),.. Matthew 24 Interlinear Bible

Now it is recorded in scripture(post quoted),,,"SHOULD HAVE", redeemed Israel, Luke 24:21. But as it is in scripture they could not bare it yet, John 16:21. But as Jesus our Lord said The comforter he had spoke of would lead then to understanding. So Jesus knew himself that they did not grasp that he would suffer, die be resurrected and then ascend to heaven and return a second time.

Now look at Matthew 24:3 and tell me if you will are they asking him what is the sign of his coming because they thought he was supposed to come as they thought and end the age and restore Israel to power and the gentiles would no longer be ruling? This would mean that the temple(stone standing on another) would be left standing and that he (Jesus) would rule it.

Now this is the puzzling part are they asking Jesus "what is the sign of thy coming?" meaning 1st coming because they believed a king was going to rule from the place he was saying was going to be destroyed or the 2nd coming that the scriptures state that they did not yet understand? lol, thats the puzzle to it all in that most see them asking about his 2nd coming when the scriptures state they didn't understand it and thought he was there to stay....
The jew can not possibly know what is going on or what was back then.
The entire deal is jumbled w o the Holy Spirit.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
2,283
116
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#44
You are correct. The Rapture is NOT revealed in Matthew 24, but the second coming of Christ definitely it. The important thing to note is that at the second coming, Christ comes WITH His saints and angels, but how could be possibly do that had He not first come FOR His saint? And Revelation 19 answers that question very nicely, by placing the Marriage of the Lamb JUST BEFORE the second coming of Christ.

The elect which are gathered by the holy angels from all around the world are actually the believing Jewish remnant. The term "election" is used frequently to designate believing Israel.
What about all the masses of people who have passed away since Jesus ascended? All those who have believed and died in the last 2000 years. Not to mention all those that died in faith before Jesus' first coming. That gives you plenty of saints to return with Jesus without the need of a pre-trib rapture to populate heaven.

The Bride making herself ready just before the second coming could be indicating that the rapture occurs THEN right before Jesus' return. Just like it says in Thessalonians.
 
Nov 19, 2016
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#45
Yes it does.
Around vs 36 it says "...the day and hour nobody knows..."
That is the rapture.

Almost impossible to miss since those dynamics are all framed in the "watch and be ready" rapture verses.
I guess if you want to make it out like that you can.

But I believe this means the Return of the Lord Jesus Christ, I guess you can place with Him gathering up the 144,000, or His church. Duality.
 
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heartofdavid

Guest
#46
I guess if you want to make it out like that you can.

But I believe this means the Return of the Lord Jesus Christ, I guess you can place with Him gathering up the 144,000, or His church. Duality.
There is nothing in lot or noah,or watching for Jesus pointing to a post trib rapture.

Combine that with tons of verses,and postrib rapture is basically impossible
Especially when we see all on the plant take the mark.
 
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heartofdavid

Guest
#47
What about all the masses of people who have passed away since Jesus ascended? All those who have believed and died in the last 2000 years. Not to mention all those that died in faith before Jesus' first coming. That gives you plenty of saints to return with Jesus without the need of a pre-trib rapture to populate heaven.

The Bride making herself ready just before the second coming could be indicating that the rapture occurs THEN right before Jesus' return. Just like it says in Thessalonians.
Impossible

1 there is a gathering during the gt in rev 14. That means 1 thes 4 is a farce. ( the dead rise AFTER them at the postrib rapture)

2. The ac. Requires all on the planet to take the mark,and they do
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,970
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#48
What about all the masses of people who have passed away since Jesus ascended? All those who have believed and died in the last 2000 years. Not to mention all those that died in faith before Jesus' first coming. That gives you plenty of saints to return with Jesus without the need of a pre-trib rapture to populate heaven.
Just because there is a host of saints in Heaven does not mean that the saints who are alive at the time of the Resurrection/Rapture will be ignored. That is why this tremendous event is shown to be in two phases, but they happen almost simultaneously: (a) those who are in Heaven will receive their glorified resurrection bodies followed by (b) the transformation of the living saints with their glorified bodies, and all to meet Christ in the air.
The Bride making herself ready just before the second coming could be indicating that the rapture occurs THEN right before Jesus' return. Just like it says in Thessalonians.
It is only after all the glorified saints are in Heaven that the Marriage of the Lamb occurs, but this is JUST BEFORE the second coming of Christ WITH all His saints and angels. You can't have the Rapture and the Second Coming happening at the same time simply because the Marriage of the Lamb must occur first.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#49
What about all the masses of people who have passed away since Jesus ascended? All those who have believed and died in the last 2000 years. Not to mention all those that died in faith before Jesus' first coming. That gives you plenty of saints to return with Jesus without the need of a pre-trib rapture to populate heaven.

The Bride making herself ready just before the second coming could be indicating that the rapture occurs THEN right before Jesus' return. Just like it says in Thessalonians.

Of course if they came back with christ, they would have to have been ressurected first. That would mean they would have to have been raptured (caught up) in the sky with jesus and gone through their judgment seat, and given new bodies. Would it not?
 
Nov 19, 2016
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#50
Thing is Matthew 24 was fulfilled :]


But it always intresting to talk about even though it moot, and people branch off in many different directions in what may happen.

Love how Jesus Christ just tells His disciples; hey look your gonna see all of these things go down youll hear of rumors of war, youll suffer perscution be thrown in front of Judges, and jail. Which The apostles did Go through in the book of Acts.

So Jesus Christ was telling them about everything that would happen, and they would just know due to the signs the Lord Jesus Christ laid out, to even further understand how near the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ was, and the rise of the ruler back in the day that would set the mark, and they suffered a great tribulation like no one will ever see on this earth ever again.



Praise God for that because no one deserves to go through all that, but the disciples/Apostles, they did their job dying on the job along the way.

There won't be an end to this world, there won't be a great tribulation like they seen ever again on this entire planet.

Isa 9: 6 For a Child hath been born to us, A Son hath been given to us, And the princely power is on his shoulder, And He doth call his name Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace.

7 To the increase of the princely power, And of peace, there is no end, On the throne of David, and on his kingdom, To establish it, and to support it, In judgment and in righteousness, Henceforth, even unto the age, The zeal of Jehovah of Hosts doth this.



If you believe one day this World is gonna burn up melt, and be destroyed, because that is what is gonna happen.
Youre gonna see the Lord Jesus Christ and be rose up in the air to meet him.

(This is relating to the elected people back in the past, that the disciples wrote too)

The Disciples encouraged, and taught the believers back then to wait on the Lord Jesus Christ, even when the Ruler would come up, set up the mark, and the plagues and things that would ensue, they were taught to believe and have faith in the Lord that he would come to them.

(This is a logical basis that can be gotten from the scripture)

Ill tell you I think you have mis-understood the message in its fullness.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
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#51
Here is my treatment of Mt 24 in my commentary:

hyperlinks will not function.

Matthew 24

{Return to: Table of Contents }

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

This chapter contains a prediction of the utter destruction of the city and temple of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the whole political constitution of the Jews; and is one of the most valuable portions of the new covenant Scriptures, with respect to the evidence which it furnishes of the truth of Christianity. Everything which our Lord foretold should come on the temple, city, and people of the Jews, has been fulfilled in the most correct and astonishing manner; and witnessed by a writer who was present during the whole, who was himself a Jew, and is acknowledged to be an historian of indisputable veracity in all those transactions which concern the destruction of Jerusalem. Without having designed it, he has written a commentary on our Lord's words, and shown how every tittle was punctually fulfilled, though he knew nothing of the Scripture which contained this remarkable prophecy. His account will be frequently referred to in the course of these notes; as also the admirable work of Dr. Newton on the prophecies.
[And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple] Or, And Jesus, going out of the temple, was going away. This is the arrangement of the words in several eminent manuscripts, versions, and fathers; and is much clearer than that in the common translation. The Jews say the temple was built of white and green-spotted marble. See Lightfoot. Josephus says the stones were white and strong; fifty feet long, twenty-four broad, and sixteen thick. Antiq. b. 15. c. 11,3. See Mk 13:1-2.
(from Adam Clarke's Commentary, in Public Domain via E-Sword.) {Return to: Dt 32:22 } 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Mt 24:2
[There shall not be left here one stone upon another] At the time this was spoken, no event was more improbable than this. The temple was vast, rich, splendid. It was the pride of the nation, and the nation was at peace. Yet in the short space of 40 years all this was accomplished exactly. Jerusalem was taken by the Roman armies, under the command of Titus, 70 AD The account of the siege and destruction of the city is left us by Josephus, a historian of undoubted veracity and singular fidelity. He was a Jewish priest. In the wars of which he gives an account, he fell into the hands of the Romans, and remained with them during the siege and destruction of the city. Being a Jew, he would of course say nothing designed to confirm the prophecies of Jesus Christ; yet his whole history appears almost like a running commentary on these predictions respecting the destruction of the temple. The following particulars are given on his authority:
After the city was taken, Josephus says that Titus "gave orders that they should now "demolish the whole city and temple," except three towers, which he reserved standing. But for the rest of the wall, it was laid so completely even with the ground by those who "dug it up from the foundation," that there was nothing left to make those believe who came hither that it had ever been inhabited." Maimonides, a Jewish writer, has also recorded that "Terentius Rufus, an officer in the army of Titus, with a plowshare tore up the foundations of the temple, that the prophecy might be fulfilled,
'Zion shall be plowed as a field,'" Mic 3:12. This was all done by the direction of divine Providence. Titus was desirous of preserving the temple, and frequently sent Josephus to the Jews to induce them to surrender and save the temple and city. But the prediction of the Saviour had gone forth, and, notwithstanding the wish of the Roman general, the temple was to be destroyed. The Jews themselves first set fire to the porticoes of the temple. One of the Roman soldiers, without any command, threw a burning firebrand into the golden window, and soon the temple was in flames. Titus gave orders to extinguish the fire; but, amid the tumult, none of the orders were obeyed. The soldiers pressed to the temple, and neither fear nor entreaties, nor stripes could restrain them. Their hatred of the Jews urged them on to the work of destruction, and thus, says Josephus, the temple was burned against the will of Caesar.
See Jewish Wars, b. 6 chapter 4, section 5-7.
(from Barnes' Notes, in Public Domain via E-Sword.)
See Josephus Wars 6:10,1.
Mt 24:2-44 See parallel passage in Lk 21 20-28.
{Return to: Zc 11:11, Lk 19:44, Lk 23:28 }

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

In recent times these would include Jim Jones (the Guyana tragedy) and other smaller suicide cults.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Since the mid 20th century, there has certainly been a huge increase in wars, famines, earthquakes and natural disasters.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

The Church is being horribly persecuted in Ethiopia, Somalia, Indonesia, and many other parts of the world. {Return to: Is 24:16, Jer 30:24 }

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

{Return to: 1Co 11:19 }

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Russel and the JWs Smith and the Mormons, Sun Moon and the Moonies, etc.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

{Return to: 1Co 11:19 }

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

shall be saved (σωθήσεται) This is the future passive. This does not suggest that Salvation is conditional on endurance; but, rather, that those who are saved are the ones who will endure.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

There are more missions activities in the world now than at any other time in history.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

See Da 11:31; 12:11.

In 132AD, Hadrian placed a temple to Jupiter on the temple mount. Many Jews rose up in opposition and over the next four years, 50 cities and 900 towns were destroyed and in 136 AD 86,000 Jews were expelled.. Most prophesies of this sort have had a dual fulfillment; and I believe that in the time of the Antichrist, something similar will occur. This as many other prophesies seems to have multiple fulfillment. Hadrian’s temple to Jupiter became the Church of Sophia, which in 612 AD was replaced by a Moslem Mosque. Interestingly if we take the 1335 days of Da 12:12 as years we come to 1947, the year of the rebirth of Israel and the fulfillment of the times of the gentiles of Lk 21:24. In verse 32 of this chapter the fig tree is a figure of Israel in general and the tribe of Asher in particular.
{Return to: verse 32, Da 11:31, Da 12:12 }

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

{Return to: Lk 23:29 }

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The words translated as tribulation צַר in the Hebrew and θλῖψις in the Greek usually refer to persecution of Israel, God’s faithful, or the Church by the unbelieving World.

This again has multiple fulfillment under Nero and under Domitian. It will be fulfilled again by the Antichrist either on the Church (if you believe in a mid-tribulation rapture) or on the tribulation saints (if you believe in a pre-tribulation rapture). It is not the purpose of this commentary to take sides in this argument. {Return to: Da 12:1, Rv 2:10 }

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

{Return to: 2Ti 3:8 }

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

the stars shall fall from heaven In Hebrew usage, star is used to signify both the lights in the night sky and angels of light. It is not clear whether people of the first century understood or recognized the distinction. In this case, the latter are clearly indicated. While the New Testament was written in Greek all of its writers (except Luke) were native speakers of Aramaic, of which Hebrew is essentially a dialect.
{Return to: Joe 3:15, Mk 13:25, Rv 2:10 }

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

See Da chapter 7 and Rv chapters 13 and 19. {Return to: Joe 3:16, Ro 1:4 }

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

By this verse we know that the Church is in heaven with Christ at the time of the second coming. 1Th 4:15-17 tells us how they came to be there. There are believers of good scholarship on both sides of the issue of when they got there.
{Return to: Mk 13:27 }

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

As mentioned in my comment on verse 15 of this chapter, the fig tree is a much used figure of Israel in Rabbinic commentary and elsewhere. This seems to indicate that the rebirth of Israel as a nation signals the end times. Lk 21:24 appears to confirm this interpretation.
{Return to: Is 11:12, Lk 21:36 }

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

If, This generation refers to the generation who witnessed the rebirth of Israel, as I believe it does; then the implication is that at least one person who was alive on Nov 29,1947 will live to witness the return of our Lord.
{Return to: Lk 17:37, Jn 13:38 }

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

(See Is 51:6, 2Pe 3:10, Rv 21:1.) {Return to: Is 51:6 }

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

The days of Noah were times of multitudes rejecting God. We certainly live in such times today.

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

In the context of the previous two verses this verse and the following verse do not refer to the rapture but rather the judgements described in Revelation. These will be taken as those that perished were taken by the flood.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

{Return to: Lk 21:28, Rv 14:16, Rv 14:20 }

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

{Return to: Lk 12:40 }


45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

{Return to: Mk 13:37, Lk 21:36 }

For a complete download of my commentary see the about me section of my profile.
 
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Nov 19, 2016
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You are very in-depth brother MarcR. I love your knowledge of History here. But I don't know about the whole Israel rebirth thing that just sounds like a way to keep this claim that Matthew 24 wasn't fully functional when He said it the first time, when He talked to their Generation and only that Generation. :) God bless, all in this site and your families.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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#53
The jew can not possibly know what is going on or what was back then.
The entire deal is jumbled w o the Holy Spirit.
lol, Yes in Matthew 16:13-20 and Mark 8:27-29 Jesus ask them who he was and Peter says he believed him to the the Christ then Jesus tells them that the only way they would have known this is if it was given to them by the father.

In Mark 9:32 and John 20:9 Jesus tells them he would die and be resurrected but Peter "rebukes" Jesus because he was saying he was going to die and they thought he was not going to but that he would become the king in Israel and that he would repel Rome's rule and the nations would all be ruled by him. And so in Mark 9:32 and John 20:9 it state's in scripture that "they understood not" and why is that it was not yet given to them to understand by the Holy Spirit.

Now after he died the disciples/apostles were not sure if he was actually the "Christ" because the way they saw it he wasn't suppose to die and leave he was suppose to live,stay and be king,rule ect(their thinking). Now after this, Acts 1:6 they are still of this thinking and ask him again if he would restore the kingdom to Israel and for the 2nd time they saw him leave,Acts 1:9-11 and so to them(apostles/disciples) saw the one they believed to be Christ leave.

This time they were told that he would return Acts 1:11 and so they returned to Olivet like they were told. Now after the comforter came as Jesus said Acts 2 then they knew and understood this, Acts 3:21 but not before this point in time like you say they couldn't understand this without the Holy Spirit. Which leads me back to why I ask MatthewG this but I suppose it applies to anyone in that we see the question in Matthew 24:3 as if they are asking Jesus about his "2nd coming" when they didn't understand it at the time they ask Jesus that day on Olivet.

It I think is because we unlike them have in our possession the books of the new testament(written after that point in time) and since we do and have read them have knowledge of the concept of a "2nd coming of Christ" and so we look at Matthew 24:3 and place what we believe they ask instead of putting our selves in their shoes and bare in mind that they did not understand it at that time(again multiple scriptures show they did not).

This is easy to spot in a thread/discussion about Matthew 24:3 in that if you read the wording used by many in these threads they word their post "second coming,return ect." when speaking of Matthew 24:3 injecting their preconceived belief into what they actually ask in Matthew 24:3.
 

Joseppi

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2018
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#54
Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Which is why signs of its coming are used.
You can't observe it, but you know what signs of its coming the Lord has given us to watch for.
Its like observing the church of Jesus Christ, in which, is the kingdom of God. You can't observe the church without the Holy Ghost manifesting it according to the written word of God.
The Pharisee's couldn't deny the miracles of Jesus, nor his authority over the kingdom of darkness.
But, they should've understood the truth about the authoritative words of Jesus by observing his works.
 

Joseppi

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2018
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#55
Matthew 24:36 Jesus Christ said to his disciples, But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Which is why we watch for the signs of his coming that the Lord has given us.

We are like children asking, When are we going to get there?
The answer is that when we observe certain signs along the way we know we are getting close.

The better you understand the signs of the times, the more certain you become.
 
Nov 19, 2016
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#56
Which is why we watch for the signs of his coming that the Lord has given us.

We are like children asking, When are we going to get there?
The answer is that when we observe certain signs along the way we know we are getting close.

The better you understand the signs of the times, the more certain you become.

I can't make it for myself though, I can only apply it to the past my friend.

No one knows the hour or day of their own death not even Jesus Christ seeings how He is here with us, only the Father.

That is why we are suppose to live by faith, daily.
 

Joseppi

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2018
886
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#57
Look at Luke 24:21,,,then John 20:25,,,then Mark 16:12-14,,,then John 16:12, theres something I want to ask you.
Now this is the puzzling part are they asking Jesus "what is the sign of thy coming?" meaning 1st coming because they believed a king was going to rule from the place he was saying was going to be destroyed or the 2nd coming that the scriptures state that they did not yet understand? lol, thats the puzzle to it all in that most see them asking about his 2nd coming when the scriptures state they didn't understand it and thought he was there to stay....
I think they were asking about Jesus coming into his kingdom by his ascendancy to the throne of David.
 

Joseppi

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2018
886
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#58
I can't make it for myself though, I can only apply it to the past my friend.

No one knows the hour or day of their own death not even Jesus Christ seeings how He is here with us, only the Father.

That is why we are suppose to live by faith, daily.
The signs require faith in Jesus.
It takes faith to believe what is written, and to be prudent as our understanding grows.
What is revealed belongs to us, what isn't doesn't.

Men lack knowledge and understanding because of unbelief concerning all that is written.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
3,216
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#59
I think they were asking about Jesus coming into his kingdom by his ascendancy to the throne of David.
And what had them puzzled was that they saw the temple he had just said would be destroyed linked to it. And so if it was destroyed as Jesus stated then it would be after he ruled from it so they ask "when" and "what would be the end",,,the same questions Daniel ask at the end of Daniel. In their minds if he really was the king that would come the sign would no longer be there if the temple was destroyed as Jesus stated.
 
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Joseppi

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2018
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#60
Jesus said, Behold I have told you beforehand.
Yet Jesus predicted that even though he said, Take heed, for many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, that nevertheless, the result of those liars will be that, Many shall be deceived.
50% of the virgins in the parable of the virgins ended up hearing the call to go out and meet Jesus at his return, but they were unable to find the door.