Messianic Christians?

[Larry_Stotle]

The Hebrew "roots" and Messianics are trying to revive a dead "religion". The old testament practices came to a full end in 70AD with the destruction of the temple and the judgment of the whor.e (aka apostate Israel of the 1st century AD)

They are no different than that Herbie Armstrong cult and it's breakaway spin offs after they changed their thinking.

I have a long time friend that has been sucked into this vacuum of a mess.

The book of Hebrews tells us:


(Heb 8:13 KJV) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Paul indeed taught the the law was not longer to be followed:

(Acts 21:21 KJV) And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

And we can understand Paul's reasoning when he describes the two covenants:

(Gal 4:21 KJV) Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

(Gal 4:22 KJV) For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

(Gal 4:23 KJV) But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

(Gal 4:24 KJV) Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

(Gal 4:25 KJV) For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

(Gal 4:26 KJV) But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

(Gal 4:30 KJV) Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

The casting out occured in 70AD at the end of the age.

What the HB'rs and Messianics would have us believe is that a ministration of death has somehow turned into a ministration of life in Christ:

(2 Cor 3:7 KJV) But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

(2 Cor 3:8 KJV) How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

They are also guilty of adultery and or bigamy by claiming they are married to Moses and Christ:

(Rom 7:4 KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

(2 Cor 11:3 KJV) But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

(2 Cor 11:4 KJV) For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

They are purveyors of the old wine of Moses:

(Luke 5:36 KJV) And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.

(Luke 5:37 KJV) And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.

(Luke 5:38 KJV) But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.

(Luke 5:39 KJV) No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

 

[RedTent]

Sure it has a mixture of Truth and error, but even you have stated your desire for the pure Word.

I wish you had answered what the word Judaism means to you, but Boy!! do you have that right, I want the pure word. My constant prayer is for the pure word, all of it, as much understanding of God as it is possible to get! No man tradition, no prior training, nothing to taint it at all but straight from the breath of God!!! I don't want Calvin, Aristotle, Luther, Augustine or Linda's men to come between me and straight from God. My study is limited to either scripture or history, as authentic as I can get history looking for how God is working in our world. I look at commentaries, but I search them for men who keep strictly to God's word. Even Mathew Henry is questionable in my eyes.

I am human, I am in the flesh. So I put on Christ every single bit that I can. I constantly search and question this human mind of mine. I want pure truth!

 

[royalscot]

paul/saul was a Pharisee , so that would would mean, he knew, the old testament very well. there is a lot in his life, you can learn, for example, why did he say he was a roman, in stead of saying jewish, why did he continue, when he was warned that, they would bind his hands like this, and lead him away. etc. the thing to remember is the bible, is about there lives,(the jesus apostils and paul life) and how they followed jesus, Christ. we have to try and understand them, as much as we try, to understand jesus. see they took the message to death. the contrast, of learning what jesus is saying through them , and there own personal walk, is combined. so in simple terms , there life was also given, to bring glory to god. to the jewish christain and to the gentile christain. see there is much to learn, yet have you been to the point of being threated with death because of what we believe. remember, its there lives, we are reading about, and how the message, is still being spoke/ studded many years on.

 

[RedTent]

The Hebrew "roots" and Messianics are trying to revive a dead "religion". The old testament practices came to a full end in 70AD with the destruction of the temple and the judgment of the whor.e (aka apostate Israel of the 1st century AD)

They are no different than that Herbie Armstrong cult and it's breakaway spin offs after they changed their thinking.

I have a long time friend that has been sucked into this vacuum of a mess.

The book of Hebrews tells us:


(Heb 8:13 KJV) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Paul indeed taught the the law was not longer to be followed:

(Acts 21:21 KJV) And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

And we can understand Paul's reasoning when he describes the two covenants:

(Gal 4:21 KJV) Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

(Gal 4:22 KJV) For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

(Gal 4:23 KJV) But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

(Gal 4:24 KJV) Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

(Gal 4:25 KJV) For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

(Gal 4:26 KJV) But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

(Gal 4:30 KJV) Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

The casting out occured in 70AD at the end of the age.

What the HB'rs and Messianics would have us believe is that a ministration of death has somehow turned into a ministration of life in Christ:

(2 Cor 3:7 KJV) But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

(2 Cor 3:8 KJV) How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

They are also guilty of adultery and or bigamy by claiming they are married to Moses and Christ:

(Rom 7:4 KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

(2 Cor 11:3 KJV) But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

(2 Cor 11:4 KJV) For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

They are purveyors of the old wine of Moses:

(Luke 5:36 KJV) And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.

(Luke 5:37 KJV) And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.

(Luke 5:38 KJV) But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.

(Luke 5:39 KJV) No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

And you are completely blind to what a mess you have been caught up in!! You need to know "covenant" and what it is, what the new covenant is and does. You need to know about the new wine, what is new and how and where it replaces the old. You need to meet the Moses that Christ speaks of, Moses should be in your background of knowing Christ. You have a lot to learn. Your decision not to know is a sorry one.

 

[crossnote]

I wish you had answered what the word Judaism means to you, but Boy!! do you have that right, I want the pure word. My constant prayer is for the pure word, all of it, as much understanding of God as it is possible to get! No man tradition, no prior training, nothing to taint it at all but straight from the breath of God!!! I don't want Calvin, Aristotle, Luther, Augustine or Linda's men to come between me and straight from God. My study is limited to either scripture or history, as authentic as I can get history looking for how God is working in our world. I look at commentaries, but I search them for men who keep strictly to God's word. Even Mathew Henry is questionable in my eyes.

I am human, I am in the flesh. So I put on Christ every single bit that I can. I constantly search and question this human mind of mine. I want pure truth!

'Linda's men'?
Can I Google that?

 

[Linda70]

'Linda's men'?
Can I Google that?

LOLOLOL.....I was really wondering about that!!!

If you do "google" that, please let me know the results. I can't stand the suspense!

 

[JGIG]

If they are all over the map, why are you bringing in some off beat ideas you say one has and say it represents the movement?

Gee, RedTent, you should go read the site; it preaches many of the things you preach here at CC. What is the Netzarim Faith?

The difference of theology behind this movement is not about using rituals instead of real worship at all, it is the establishment who is death against better ways of understanding Christ who makes that the issue.

What does that even mean? "The establishment who is death?" What is that?

The new movement wants a clearer better look at OT scripture.

No, it's a movement whose stated goal is to 'Take Torah to the Nations', with no interest of reaching the Lost for Christ, but to put believers (the Church, the Body of Christ) under the Law. In that sense it's the very same movement that Paul preached so strongly against in his letter to the Body of Christ at Galatia.

As a for instance, about circumcision. Requiring circumcision is not the issue of the movement at all, at issue is whether you may examine all of circumcision NT and OT.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Adult male and older male children circumcision is not an unusual occurrence in the HRM - among Gentiles. The Refiner's Fire, 119 Ministries, New2Torah, Teshuva Ministries, and others all preach that circumcision is a fruit of salvation - proof that one is truly saved. It is very much an issue in the movement. And they twist and create Scriptural contraptions to support their heresy.

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

Your entire thought process is contrary to the way of this new movement, you are thinking in terms of what is superior, what is the center of faith, is something diminishing Christ Jesus.

The bible is breathed by God, all of it, and the theme is the redemption that God planned for us. When Christ is the major part of the plan, how can you say that OT, NT, or the book of Hebrews is a center or not a center of that plan?

If the Hebrew Roots were truly centered on Christ, you'd have a point, but they're not; they're centered on Torah and putting those in Christ back under the Law.

-JGIG

 

[crossnote]

Maybe it should be clarified that not all Messianic Congregations are part of the Hebrew Roots Movement (HRM).

 

[JGIG]

Maybe it should be clarified that not all Messianic Congregations are part of the Hebrew Roots Movement (HRM).

While this is true, the term, 'Messianic' IS designed to set adherents apart from the general Body of Christ, that they somehow have special insight.

An excellent read regarding this issue is

Messianic Judaism is Not Christianity: A Loving Call to Unity: Stan Telchin, Moishe Rosen: 9780800793722: Amazon.com: Books

-JGIG

 

[Linda70]

JGIG...

I have all three of Stan Telchin's books....excellent resources.

Betrayed!
Abandoned:What is God's will for the Jewish People and the Church?
Messianic Judaism is Not Christianity

I purchased Messianic Judaism is Not Christianity through Jewish Awareness Ministries.

 

[RedTent]

If the Hebrew Roots were truly centered on Christ, you'd have a point, but they're not; they're centered on Torah and putting those in Christ back under the Law.

-JGIG

That is absolutely not true, and I think you know it. If the movement is centered on finding the roots of Christ, that alone would show they are centered on Christ. The very bible is centered on our redemption, and every part of the bible says that redemption is only through the blood of Christ. Anyone centered on scripture has, of necessity, to be centered on Christ.

Because you are a legalistic person, with your mind centered on law and not needing law it does not mean that every other person is. Especially not people who study scripture.

It is not Christian, it is not right, when you spread malicious gossip about an entire movement.

 

[JGIG]

No, she's got it right. She does mean 'Messianic Christians', or Messianics.

Joyfully Growing In Grace was birthed out of the examination of the complex ins and outs of the many streams within the Messianic 'movements' that have become more popular over the past 20 years (largely because of the internet).

Here's from the 'What JGIG Is' and 'What JGIG Is Not' sections at JGIG:

What JGIG Is:

Joyfully Growing In Grace engages in an examination of beliefs found in the Hebrew Roots Movement, Messianic Judaism, and Netzarim streams of thought and related sects.

The term “Messianic” is generally understood to describe Jews who have come to believe in Yeshua/Jesus as their Messiah. Jews who are believers in Jesus/Yeshua typically call themselves Jewish/Hebrew Christians or simply, Christians.

Many Christians meet folks who say they are ‘Messianic’ and assume that those folks are Jewish Christians. Most aren’t Jewish at all, but are Gentile Christians who have chosen to pursue Torah observance and have adopted the Messianic term, calling themselves Messianic Christians, adherents to Messianic Judaism, or simply, Messianics. Some will even try to avoid that label and say that they are followers of "The Way".

These Gentiles (and to be fair, some Messianic Jews) preach Torah observance/pursuance for Christians, persuading many believers that the Christianity of the Bible is a false religion and that we must return to the faith of the first century sect of Judaism that they say Yeshua (Jesus Christ) embraced. According to them, once you become aware that you should be 'keeping' the edicts and regulations of Mosaic Covenant Law, if you do not, you are then in willful disobedience to God.

It has been my observation that Christians who adopt the label of Messianic identify more with the tenets of Judaism than they do with the tenets of Christianity. Many reject the label of Christian altogether and some eventually even convert to Judaism.
1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 says, "But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; abstain from every form of evil."

Joyfully Growing in Grace examines the methods, claims, and fruits of the Hebrew Roots Movement, Messianic Judaism, and Netzarim streams of thought and related, law-keeping sects.

To borrow from a Forest Gump quote, “Law ‘keepers’ are like a box of chocolates - ya never know what you’re gonna get!” The goal of JGIG is to be a resource to help those affected by the Torah pursuant movements to try and sort out what they’re dealing with. Make use of the tabs with drop-down menus found at the top of this site – there’s tons of info there, and it’s very navigable.

Be sure to click on the many embedded links within the posts here - there's lots of additional and related information for you to access that way, as well.

Welcome, and may God grant you wisdom and discernment as you consider all of these things.

​

What JGIG Is Not

Joyfully Growing In Grace is not a heresy-hunting site, it is not an anti-Semitic site, nor does its author have any agenda other than defending the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

This site is not against the Laws of God.

This site does not condemn believers who find joy and insight into their faith by celebrating Feasts, observing a seventh-day Sabbath or who feel they should adhere to dietary laws.

This site does not condemn believers for choosing to not celebrate the Birth or Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Romans 14:6 says, "He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God."

JGIG is not about secondary disputable matters, but addresses core issues of the Christian faith and examines how the Hebrew Roots Movement, Messianic Judaism, and Netzarim streams of thought and related sects stand or fall when placed alongside the plumb line of the whole of Scripture.

JGIG is not a site to 'expose' teachers in the HRM, as they are a dime-a-dozen. The posts at JGIG do examine teachings, however, and may, from time to time reference or quote a particular teacher for demonstrative purposes only.

JGIG is not a place for conspiracy theories. Jesus told us that when we see certain things to not be afraid; that our Redemption draws near. He didn't say to get it all figured out and go and retreat to some bunker somewhere; He calls us to love God, love others and make disciples. So there won't be time spent on conspiracy-minded banter here.

Welcome, and may God grant you wisdom and discernment as you consider all of these things.
​

I see that this is an old thread, and it may be too late for Macie, but thought I'd throw this resource out there anyway. My examination into the movements described above began back in 2007. Anyone interested in reading about that can read that story here:

How I Became Aware of the Hebrew Roots Movement


Grace and peace,
-JGIG

How very sad!! An entire organization and way of life dedicated to being sure that learning more about God is stopped!! Do they go into our major theological colleges, too, to stop professors of ancient Hebrew culture?

Again you demonstrate that you have no idea what you're talking about. JGIG is not an organization, it is not "a way of life dedicated to learning about God being stopped"

, but to build believers up in who they are in Christ. It has a focus on examining the beliefs found in the Hebrew Roots Movement and related Law-keeping sects.

As far as I know, JGIG is not in 'major theological colleges', though it is read throughout the world.

I the goal at JGIG to "stop professors of ancient Hebrew culture"? Seriously, RedTent. You really should just spend some time reading at JGIG before making such a ridiculous assertion.

Mormons base their religion on that some metal was found in the East Coast of Am. that told them new things supposedly by God, Muslims claim a prophet came in 500 AD that did the same, some Protestant people claim Jesus is inferior to God, and these are passed over.

Sigh. Actually, RedTent, many in the Hebrew Roots Movement deny the Tri-unity of God and make Christ to be less than God.

Roots people stay strictly to the bible, when they study the OT they study it as it ties into the NT. They go only by God's scripture and do not add or take away, as many of the protestant churches say scripture asks us to do.

No, they don't! In fact, they bring many man-made traditions into the mix - from Judaism, and much of that is from Jewish mysticism. Several of us have attempted to show this to you before, in your thread, http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/88768-new-look-galatians.html a few weeks ago.

Yet you dedicate yourselves to "exposing" this movement to learn as against God!! It is sad.

Another false accusation. Even a cursory look at JGIG will prove your assertion to be false and mean-spirited.

I have even read your fight centered on accusing these people of using their works as so powerful they are saved by them,

Madam, cite your source. Another false accusation. If you indeed have read such a thing, you should be able to produce it.

Do so.

We'll wait.

something no one has done.

Not up front, but here's how it goes in Law-keeping sects:

The Law ‘keeper’ will swear up and down that they believe in Jesus/Yeshua for their salvation, and that there is nothing that they can do to earn that salvation. They will tell you that salvation is by faith, and that the Law (Torah) cannot save.

However, those same people will also say that while they cannot earn their salvation, that once they believe, there are certain things they must do as proof of that salvation. For them that proof becomes the keeping of Old Covenant Law.

That is a ‘Jesus +’ equation.

I think it’s important to note here that Torah folk are not focused on passing on the Life of Christ to the Lost; they are primarily focused on teaching Christians to become Torah observant.

You will not hear them tell of spreading the Gospel to the nations, but of spreading Torah to the nations.

The spreading of the Gospel, the message of the forgiveness of sins and the free gift of eternal life that the Apostles constantly risked and nearly all of them eventually lost their lives for, is not the Law keepers’ priority.

For the Law keeper, there is a symbiotic relationship between the Cross and the Law. But not in the sense that the Law leads one to Christ; no, in the Law keeping paradigm, if you come to the Cross, then you must obey Old Covenant Law. In the Law keeping paradigm, if you don’t obey Old Covenant Law, then the Cross means nothing - they proclaim this while trying to hold onto some version of the Gospel, which is really no Gospel at all.

So a Law keeper may tell you with a straight face that they rely on the Cross for salvation, but they only tell you half of the story, for they also believe that without the keeping of the Law there is no salvation.

In reality they do believe in salvation by works in a round-about-way, for while the keeping of the Law for them does not EARN them their salvation, the keeping of the Law, in their world, undeniably MAINTAINS their salvation and according to their belief garners them position/reward in the kingdom.

It is as if the fight is a no holds barred, no rules, just fight them.

No, RedTent, enough with the drama.

It's simply laying what Law-keeping sects believe alongside the Truths of the Gospel and seeing how they measure up - with the Gospel being the Standard.

-JGIG​

 

[royalscot]

jesus Christ roots are jewish . to be in the tribe of levi, you had to have your ancestral blood line to Abraham, some say adam.(and be able to prove this, to be excepted to the priesthood ) john the baptist also has his roots to the tribe of levi also.

to the people that don't know, jesus and john, could have served in the priesthood of levi.

in book of Hebrews,it tells why jesus, could go in to the most holy place, in the temple in heaven.

 

[Spokenpassage]

jesus Christ roots are jewish . to be in the tribe of levi, you had to have your ancestral blood line to Abraham, some say adam.(and be able to prove this, to be excepted to the priesthood ) john the baptist also has his roots to the tribe of levi also.

to the people that don't know, jesus and john, could have served in the priesthood of levi.

in book of Hebrews,it tells why jesus, could go in to the most holy place, in the temple in heaven.

Jesus is High Priest in the order of Melchizedek (Hebrews 7:17), not Levi. It was John's father who was of the levite priesthood, not Jesus.

 

[JGIG]

jesus Christ roots are jewish . to be in the tribe of levi, you had to have your ancestral blood line to Abraham, some say adam.(and be able to prove this, to be excepted to the priesthood ) john the baptist also has his roots to the tribe of levi also.

to the people that don't know, jesus and john, could have served in the priesthood of levi.

in book of Hebrews,it tells why jesus, could go in to the most holy place, in the temple in heaven.

Jesus was of the tribe of Judah. He is our Perfect High Priest - of the New Covenant, not the Old.

-JGIG

 

[Kerry]

whether we are Jew or Gentile our faith must be in the cross. There is no other way. Jesus said I will raise up from these stones children of Abraham. There faith was in who they were and not the cross. They thought that because they were descendants of Abraham they had it made. God a firm statement about this as Israel din't exist for over 2,000 years. The question is where is your faith. There are only two times that Jesus marveled at a persons faith and both were gentiles.

 

[daisymae]

I think some of you are missing the boat. The church was formed with a group of Jews, the bible was written by Jews, Jesus said "salvation is of the Jews", Jesus himself was/is a Jew, When Jesus comes back he will be coming to Jerusalem. Over time the Gentile churches (not all) have relegated Jewish believers who choose to retain their Jewishness to the back of the bus. When God "broke off" the branch and grafted in the Gentiles, he did not break off the believing remnant, that would to have meant to have broken off the church, but he broke off unbelieving Israel as a nation. Who he will 're-graft' in before the end of the age, the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation. I therefore think it is important as Gentiles to remember we are grafted in, they are the natural branches! The Jewishness of the roots of the church is not taught in most Gentile churches. Can't it be seen that this "movement", the one that is grace based, is the beginnings of God grafting the nation back in? All believers everywhere should seriously consider what this means to the church as a whole (the family of God). I intend to support them, and I identify with them as we are part of the same household of God together.

 

[Larry_Stotle]

There's no such thing as Gentile churches - there is the church filled with "Jews" and Gentiles.

The reason that the Gentiles are dominant in the churches is because they outnumbered the believing Jews in the early centuries.

There is very good reason to believe that the "Jewish" stock understood that there was no longer a separation between the two groups and they mingled in with the Gentiles and their "lineage" was diluted and lost over the centuries.

 

[Elin]

I think some of you are missing the boat. The church was formed with a group of Jews, the bible was written by Jews, Jesus said "salvation is of the Jews", Jesus himself was/is a Jew, When Jesus comes back he will be coming to Jerusalem. Over time the Gentile churches (not all) have relegated Jewish believers who choose to retain their Jewishness to the back of the bus. When God "broke off" the branch and grafted in the Gentiles, he did not break off the believing remnant, that would to have meant to have broken off the church, but he broke off unbelieving Israel as a nation. Who he will 're-graft' in before the end of the age,

If they do not continue in unbelief (Ro 11:24)

the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation. I therefore think it is important as Gentiles to remember we are grafted in, they are the natural branches! The Jewishness of the roots of the church is not taught in most Gentile churches. Can't it be seen that this "movement", the one that is grace based, is the beginnings of God grafting the nation back in?

Nope. . .

Not as long as there is any resistance to any of the NT, as there is in Messianic Judaism,
which makes it a false gospel.

Nor as long as law-keeping is necessary to maintain salvation, which makes it a false gospel.

"Grace-based" to them means they are saved by grace, but they remain saved only by works.

That is a false gospel.

All believers everywhere should seriously consider what this means to the church as a whole (the family of God). I intend to support them, and I identify with them as we are part of the same household of God together.

Your eschatology is adversely affecting your soteriology.