Messianic jew

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Oct 11, 2019
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#1
Can someone tell me what messianic Jews believe about salvation
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,315
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#3
Can someone tell me what messianic Jews believe about salvation
I have been a member of a forum run by a messianic Jew for over 15 years.. They seem to be as varied in their beliefs as the general Christian denominations you see posting in this forum.. But in general they observe all the Jewish days.. So they are culturally more Jewish but religiously they are more Christian..

Be careful through some of them are works salvationists..
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,768
511
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#4
I have been a member of a forum run by a messianic Jew for over 15 years.. They seem to be as varied in their beliefs as the general Christian denominations you see posting in this forum.. But in general they observe all the Jewish days.. So they are culturally more Jewish but religiously they are more Christian..

Be careful through some of them are works salvationists..
My goodness! I started studying scripture under a Messianic Jew when I searched for someone who had studied the old testament but knew Christ. I learned that this denomination started when scholars began studying the dead sea scrolls after they found them. This gave the discipline of ancient Hebrew history much information about those times and through this an understanding of these bible verses that had been lost. They are simply people who believe in studying scripture. Through this study they come up with what seems to be truths about the old testament that had been lost. They believe in scripture, and that does not include any one testament but scripture consists of both.

This would say that no member could believe Judaism should be practiced for scripture tells us not to, but it does mean that most redefine Judaism. They base this on scripture in its entirely.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,547
3,204
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#5
Messianic Jews are simply Jews by birth that became Christians.
True. But they prefer not to call themselves "Christians" and choose to follow the Old Covenant (the Law of Moses) practices. IOW they wish to maintain their Jewishness apart from Gentile Christians and churches. Whether or not this is what Jesus approves of is debatable, since according to Paul there is neither Jew nor Gentile in the Church of God.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,768
511
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#6
True. But they prefer not to call themselves "Christians" and choose to follow the Old Covenant (the Law of Moses) practices. IOW they wish to maintain their Jewishness apart from Gentile Christians and churches. Whether or not this is what Jesus approves of is debatable, since according to Paul there is neither Jew nor Gentile in the Church of God.
That is totally and completely untruths you are spreading. It isn't even misunderstandings.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
8,284
3,555
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#7
so every Jewish person who comes to Christ prefers to follow the OT?

not even remotely true
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,768
511
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#8
so every Jewish person who comes to Christ prefers to follow the OT?

not even remotely true
No Messianic follows only a part of scripture, all Messianic USE the entire scripture. There are other denominations that follow only one testament such as the new testament, but the Messianic follows both. Christ is in both the new and old, God the Father is in both the new and the old. God gives scripture in one book, man cut it in two.

In one small town in the US the Messianic Church is named House of Covenant and the pastors are John Klein and Adam Spears. They have been written up as leading bible scholars. They have been friends for over 25 years and have a habit of meeting in the evenings for bible study,. They have written several books that are selling very well and highly acclaimed.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,547
3,204
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#9
That is totally and completely untruths you are spreading. It isn't even misunderstandings.
I do not appreciate you (or anyone else) calling me a liar. So to PROVE that you have made a false accusation against me I will post from the Jewish Voice the same things which I have said. And I trust you will tender a sincere apology:

"One of the most common questions we receive is, “What is the difference between Messianic Judaism and Christianity?” The key to better understanding the differences between Messianic Judaism and Christianity is to first understand the foundations of both religions as they spring from Judaism.

1. Jewish people are descendants of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, and acknowledge Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as the patriarchs of Israel and the Jewish people. Historically, Jewish people have not acknowledged Yeshua (Jesus) as the Messiah promised to Israel.

2. Christians are typically non-Jews who have responded to Yeshua in faith to experience spiritual rebirth and reconciliation to God.

3. Messianic Jews are people of Jewish heritage who maintain their Jewish identity and acknowledge Yeshua as the Messiah.

Messianic Jews generally celebrate Yeshua’s resurrection on the first day of the Week of Unleavened Bread, also called Passover. Additionally, Messianic Jews observe the traditional Jewish holidays and feasts such as Purim, Chanukah, the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah), and the Feast of Booths (Sukkot).


https://www.jewishvoice.org/read/blog/difference-between-messianic-judaism-and-christianity/
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
9,423
1,785
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#10
we identify 'Messianic' as trying their best to follow Yeshua's ways as best as they can - we respect them and Love them...
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,768
511
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#11
I do not appreciate you (or anyone else) calling me a liar. So to PROVE that you have made a false accusation against me I will post from the Jewish Voice the same things which I have said. And I trust you will tender a sincere apology:

"One of the most common questions we receive is, “What is the difference between Messianic Judaism and Christianity?” The key to better understanding the differences between Messianic Judaism and Christianity is to first understand the foundations of both religions as they spring from Judaism.

1. Jewish people are descendants of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, and acknowledge Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as the patriarchs of Israel and the Jewish people. Historically, Jewish people have not acknowledged Yeshua (Jesus) as the Messiah promised to Israel.

2. Christians are typically non-Jews who have responded to Yeshua in faith to experience spiritual rebirth and reconciliation to God.

3. Messianic Jews are people of Jewish heritage who maintain their Jewish identity and acknowledge Yeshua as the Messiah.

Messianic Jews generally celebrate Yeshua’s resurrection on the first day of the Week of Unleavened Bread, also called Passover. Additionally, Messianic Jews observe the traditional Jewish holidays and feasts such as Purim, Chanukah, the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah), and the Feast of Booths (Sukkot).

https://www.jewishvoice.org/read/blog/difference-between-messianic-judaism-and-christianity/
The key here is "people of Jewish HERITAGE". The Messianic are usually not people of Jewish heritage, and in any case not people who are "maintaining their Jewish heritage."

So thank our Lord, there IS misunderstanding. So much better than untruths. You really shook me up, and I guess I shook you up, too. Sorry.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
9,423
1,785
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#12
there is much to be learned and experienced and accepted on our part =
we must ask ourselves where we are in the journey that we have chosen -
and, just 'whose and what' journey is real or un.=...???
:):)
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,043
182
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#13
...since according to Paul there is neither Jew nor Gentile in the Church of God.
Well then, it's quite simple then, He doesn't approve of it!
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,768
511
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#14
Can someone tell me what messianic Jews believe about salvation
The main difference between what most messianic churches teach and protestant churches teach is that the Messianic teach that all scripture must be thought of as coming from the Lord, all must be listened to. The protestant church teaches that we are now living in the new age, with a new covenant and new ways to worship.

So our current churches teach that the sacrificial system was done away with and we should not listen to it. The Messianic church teaches that the old system was of God and we need to know all about it and study it in order to understand our new life through Christ. Our church teaches all the old covenant is done with, we should ignore it as it is no longer in effect. The Messianic church teaches that we need to know all about the old covenant, we need to know what of it is obsolete, and we need to learn all about and understand the new covenant. They don't believe Constantine when he said we can not follow anything the Jews follow as they are wicked but we need to make our own like the Easter and Christmas that is made, and the new day to go to worship. To get rid of something of scripture they want it spelled out in scripture like scripture tells us about fleshly circumcision.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,198
5,613
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#15
So our current churches teach that the sacrificial system was done away with and we should not listen to it.

Our church teaches all the old covenant is done with, we should ignore it as it is no longer in effect.
Please back up your accusations with evidence. Name the churches where these things are taught. Quote their statements of faith. Quote the sermons, lessons, and blogs of pastors where these things are taught.

If you can't do so, then your words are nothing but baseless slander.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,768
511
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#16
Please back up your accusations with evidence. Name the churches where these things are taught. Quote their statements of faith. Quote the sermons, lessons, and blogs of pastors where these things are taught.

If you can't do so, then your words are nothing but baseless slander.
I can't understand your line of thinking. Haven't you read about how people post about sabbath keepers? Have you seen a church that honors the feasts told of in scripture? Have you been to any church who teaches the sacrificial system in order to better understand what Christ does for us?

This is not a discussion about what is right or wrong, but just the difference in the teaching of the two disciplines. Slander is accusing someone of something wrong. Are making a judgment about the two?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,198
5,613
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#17
I can't understand your line of thinking. Haven't you read about how people post about sabbath keepers? Have you seen a church that honors the feasts told of in scripture? Have you been to any church who teaches the sacrificial system in order to better understand what Christ does for us?

This is not a discussion about what is right or wrong, but just the difference in the teaching of the two disciplines. Slander is accusing someone of something wrong. Are making a judgment about the two?
You make assertions with no evidence. I am not aware of churches that teach what you claim "the churches" teach. So, it is incumbent upon you to demonstrate that there are, in fact, real churches that teach what you claim, so we know you aren't just making things up to support your position.

There is a difference between churches that teach "the sacrificial system in order to better understand what Christ does for us" (and yes, I have been to a church that teaches that) and churches that teach "that we should ignore it" or "not listen to it".

Your penchant for paraphrase puts your position in peril. :)
 
#18
The main difference between what most messianic churches teach and protestant churches teach is that the Messianic teach that all scripture must be thought of as coming from the Lord, all must be listened to. The protestant church teaches that we are now living in the new age, with a new covenant and new ways to worship.

So our current churches teach that the sacrificial system was done away with and we should not listen to it. The Messianic church teaches that the old system was of God and we need to know all about it and study it in order to understand our new life through Christ. Our church teaches all the old covenant is done with, we should ignore it as it is no longer in effect. The Messianic church teaches that we need to know all about the old covenant, we need to know what of it is obsolete, and we need to learn all about and understand the new covenant. They don't believe Constantine when he said we can not follow anything the Jews follow as they are wicked but we need to make our own like the Easter and Christmas that is made, and the new day to go to worship. To get rid of something of scripture they want it spelled out in scripture like scripture tells us about fleshly circumcision.
Here is your "connection" "bridging the gap" for Jew, Christian, or Messianic.
1 Peter 2
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Of course, proclaiming such? Will get you "pigeon-holed" as a "legalist", "Judeizer", or "Hebrew Roots", from those "milky's" who "boast AGAINST the branches!"

Think you may have run into one or two of 'em in here. ;)
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
8,284
3,555
113
#19
No Messianic follows only a part of scripture, all Messianic USE the entire scripture. There are other denominations that follow only one testament such as the new testament, but the Messianic follows both. Christ is in both the new and old, God the Father is in both the new and the old. God gives scripture in one book, man cut it in two.

In one small town in the US the Messianic Church is named House of Covenant and the pastors are John Klein and Adam Spears. They have been written up as leading bible scholars. They have been friends for over 25 years and have a habit of meeting in the evenings for bible study,. They have written several books that are selling very well and highly acclaimed.

um

ok

you cannot possibly be putting every Messianic in the same box

I am quite familiar with the OT and it is the foundation for the new

sadly, so many, far too many actually, either ignore the OT or give it a glance and think it is now just added weight or something

this leads to an unbalanced view of salvation...of course we have the flip side wherein some folks just cannot let go and think they have somehow to add to the new and believe me....this forum is ample evidence of that being true ;)

or just about any other Christian forum as well and there are plenty of 'em
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
2,099
995
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www.christiancourier.com
#20
Well then, it's quite simple then, He doesn't approve of it!
I wouldn't speak for God. However, I will say, if we hold to that part of the Saint Apostle Paul's letters then none of us can identify by whatever Denomination we are a member of either.
Baptist, Methodist, etc...
I wouldn't ascribe a different rule in that regard to Messianic faithful. God knows the heart. The title man bears to encapsulate the definition of what they hold in faith, even just that of, "Christian", is for man's sake. God knows the heart.