Milk or Meat? What are you getting

[Amanuensis]

Those are metaphors for the basics of the faith vs the deeper things of God. Every babe in Christ must first be fed milk and only later meat (just like infants and children). Unfortunately too many Christians fail to go on to the meatier aspects of the Word.

The problem I have with this common idea is what people are calling the milk. If it is Hebrews 6:1 then fine.

I really need an example of what people are saying when they say that a new Christian needs milk. Because too often it seems like they are suggesting that they should be taught something that they are calling milk that is not what Hebrews 6:1 describes.

For example if I were teaching new Christians class all about the judgments of God in scripture and the theological reason for judgments there is a good chance people would say I am trying to teach them meat and they are not ready for it.

So I think many misunderstand this whole milk and meat concept making up ideas that the scriptures don't teach using verses that don't support their idea about milk and meat.

For example when Peter says as newborn babes desire the sincere milk of the word, he was not talking to new Christians only. He was talking to any believer. We should value the Word of God as our means of growth just as a newborn babe requires only milk. Only the Word will feed us. No matter how long we have known the Lord we are to..as newborn babes desire the milk of the Word.

It seems hard for people to stop thinking that the bible teaches that we should not give deep subjects to new Christians. It does not say that anywhere.

 

[pottersclay]

It seems hard for people to stop thinking that the bible teaches that we should not give deep subjects to new Christians. It does not say that anywhere.

I would strongly suggest building the foundations of CHRIST first.

 

[Live4Him3]

I thought that you would know better; This has nothing to do with mixing meat and milk. You know that it is not literately meat and milk. How could the word of God be literately meat or milk.

Of course, I know better.

I was only responding to Magenta's photo that she posted.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It seems hard for people to stop thinking that the bible teaches that we should not give deep subjects to new Christians. It does not say that anywhere.

If that were true Paul would not have contrasted milk with meat in Hebrews. When a person is a new convert, that person needs to learn many basic things about salvation and sanctification and prayer. Those basics are "milk". Paul calls them "the principles of the doctrine of Christ" (which includes the deity of Christ and the Trinity).

Many may not even have a proper grasp of the life of Christ, and what is in the four Gospels, including His teachings, and the events leading up to the crucifixion. Then they need to be taught about the meaning of Christian baptism, and if not baptized they need to take that step. (There are some here who believe that Christian baptism is obsolete, others who think it is in the name of "Jesus" only).

One does not get into the more involved teachings of Scripture as well as eschatology (for example), and dump all this on someone who is brand new to the faith. Some people do not even know about Heaven, Hades, and Hell, and there are so many false teachings which need to be addressed. So you are completely mistaken is trying to avoid this distinction.

There are so many extremely basic questions on CC for example, that one wonders if some have had any teaching at all. For example something about having the awareness of sin. You would think this is an elementary teaching, not something to be discussed.

 

[Thewatchman]

Of course, I know better.

I was only responding to Magenta's photo that she posted.

I am sorry I did not get the humor

 

[Thewatchman]

The problem I have with this common idea is what people are calling the milk. If it is Hebrews 6:1 then fine.

I really need an example of what people are saying when they say that a new Christian needs milk. Because too often it seems like they are suggesting that they should be taught something that they are calling milk that is not what Hebrews 6:1 describes.

For example if I were teaching new Christians class all about the judgments of God in scripture and the theological reason for judgments there is a good chance people would say I am trying to teach them meat and they are not ready for it.

So I think many misunderstand this whole milk and meat concept making up ideas that the scriptures don't teach using verses that don't support their idea about milk and meat.

For example when Peter says as newborn babes desire the sincere milk of the word, he was not talking to new Christians only. He was talking to any believer. We should value the Word of God as our means of growth just as a newborn babe requires only milk. Only the Word will feed us. No matter how long we have known the Lord we are to..as newborn babes desire the milk of the Word.

It seems hard for people to stop thinking that the bible teaches that we should not give deep subjects to new Christians. It does not say that anywhere.

The problem I have with this common idea is what people are calling the milk. If it is Hebrews 6:1 then fine.

I really need an example of what people are saying when they say that a new Christian needs milk. Because too often it seems like they are suggesting that they should be taught something that they are calling milk that is not what Hebrews 6:1 describes.

For example if I were teaching new Christians class all about the judgments of God in scripture and the theological reason for judgments there is a good chance people would say I am trying to teach them meat and they are not ready for it.

So I think many misunderstand this whole milk and meat concept making up ideas that the scriptures don't teach using verses that don't support their idea about milk and meat.

For example when Peter says as newborn babes desire the sincere milk of the word, he was not talking to new Christians only. He was talking to any believer. We should value the Word of God as our means of growth just as a newborn babe requires only milk. Only the Word will feed us. No matter how long we have known the Lord we are to..as newborn babes desire the milk of the Word.

It seems hard for people to stop thinking that the bible teaches that we should not give deep subjects to new Christians. It does not say that anywhere.

You are right in saying that we need to move on from the elementary teachings of Christ as we grow. A new Christian needs that milk of the word, they need to understand the prodigal son, the need to build there new life on the solid rock . . . Etc. The problem comes when we have people that set in church every time the doors are open and are only taught “ Praise God we are saved by the blood, we love Jesus and we are all going to heaven” We have dear friends that live in Kansas and the church they go to teaches that you do not need to understand anything in the book of Revelation past the 3rd chapter. They are taught that is the end of the church age and at that time there will be no Christians left here on earth. To the best of there knowledge they love God. The problem is because of the teaching they have gotten for years has only taught them that they come to church get a bible lesson in Sunday school get the sermon on Sunday morning, and evening, come to Wednesday night service. They might pick up the bible and read a few chapters a week or listen to a preacher on TV that will tell them the same thing they get in church. They are not told to have the hunger for the word like the Berean's, they are not taught and told to go home and search the scriptures to see that what they were taught are true. And it is not Paul that is teaching them.

Mark 13 has two very important verses that go to my point.(there are more than 2 but.) Verse 14. But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains: Let him that readeth understand. If you have read that you need to understand it. Danial 9:27 And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation, until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him." Danial 11:31 His forces will rise up and desecrate the temple fortress. They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation. Danial 12:11 And from the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation set up, there will be 1,290 days.

The second part of Mark 13 I want to point out is verses 28Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: 29So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. 30Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. 31Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

This is Jesus speaking in both places and He says we are to understand this. That does not mean maybe or when I get around to it, or I will learn it when my Pastor, . . . teaches it to me. NO! Jesus said Now learn it. That means you have to learn it. If you are in a good bible believing, teaching church, home group, where ever two or three are gathered in my name I will be in the midst of them. It is up to you to learn this. When we stand before Him and He asks why did you not learn this you can not say Pastor_______ fill in the blank did not teach it to me. He is going to reply he did not need to I told YOU to learn it.

This is the what I am talking about when I say people need to go from the milk of the word to the meat of the word.

If you want me to explain in more depth let me know.

 

[Journeyman]

Living for Him is a part of it here is part of a follow up to this post I am working on.
Lets look at some of the meat of the word that you should know and understand. I am just going to go through several things that may or may not be taught in your church. You should know them if you have been a christian for any length of time.



Hebrews chapter 5

The Perfect High Priest

1For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: 2Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. 3And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. 4And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. 5So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.6As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.7Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; 10Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13For every one that useth milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Paul was trying to explain some of the deeper things in the word and they could not handle it. Notice the verses in bold. They should have been teachers by this time but instead they need to go back to the milk “baby bottle” If you are not raised up how can you help anyone else. You have to have sharp senses to tell the difference between good and evil. Between truth and a lie. Most churches never get their flock off the milk. They do not want to rock the boat.

Who was Melchizedek? Genesis 14

17And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale. 18And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

19And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

20And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

21And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself. 22And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth, 23That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich: 24Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion.

Verse 17. Who is the king of Sodom? He is the King of Sodom and Gomorrah. A king that not only allowed the worst type of sin but most likely encouraged it. He is a type of Satan.

Strong's Hebrew 5467: (Sodom = 'burning'1) a Canaanite city, usually paired with Gomorrah, located in the area of the Dead Sea and the Jordan river; both cities destroyed by God in judgment.

Verse 18. Who is Melchisedec king of Salem? He is a type of Jesus.

Then Melchizedek
Strong's Hebrew 4442: Melchizedek = 'my king is Sedek' 1) king of Salem and priest of the Most High God to whom Abram paid tithe after the battle he fought to free Lot; 'the order of Melchizedek' the order of the priesthood to which Christ belongs
Strong's,Hebrew,4428: 1)king,of,SalemNoun,proper,feminine,singular
Strong's Hebrew 8004: Salem = 'peace' 1) the place of which Melchizedek was king1a) most Jewish commentators affirm that,it,is,the,same,as,Jerusalem.

Remember these verses from Romans chapter 5.

5So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.6As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.7Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; 10Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

What does it mean to fear the Lord

Fearing the Lord means to be in reverent awe of His holiness, to give Him complete reverence and to honor Him as the God of great glory, majesty, purity and power.

The passage you cited tells us that Jesus, who didn't need to learn anything, being eternal High Priest, born that way on earth, existing that way always.....didn't proclaim himself as such, but appeared as any other man!!! So, in whatever capacity we are, following him is the meat of the word,

who by reason of use have their senses exercised Heb.5:14

 

[Amanuensis]

If that were true Paul would not have contrasted milk with meat in Hebrews. When a person is a new convert, that person needs to learn many basic things about salvation and sanctification and prayer. Those basics are "milk". Paul calls them "the principles of the doctrine of Christ" (which includes the deity of Christ and the Trinity).

Many may not even have a proper grasp of the life of Christ, and what is in the four Gospels, including His teachings, and the events leading up to the crucifixion. Then they need to be taught about the meaning of Christian baptism, and if not baptized they need to take that step. (There are some here who believe that Christian baptism is obsolete, others who think it is in the name of "Jesus" only).

One does not get into the more involved teachings of Scripture as well as eschatology (for example), and dump all this on someone who is brand new to the faith. Some people do not even know about Heaven, Hades, and Hell, and there are so many false teachings which need to be addressed. So you are completely mistaken is trying to avoid this distinction.

There are so many extremely basic questions on CC for example, that one wonders if some have had any teaching at all. For example something about having the awareness of sin. You would think this is an elementary teaching, not something to be discussed.

We are in agreement about there being first principles of the oracles of Christ and that they should be a foundation laid first and how one can properly call that milk.

However many people will redefine milk as something other than these principles listed. They think those principles are too deep for the new Christian. For example it lists eternal judgement, and when one teaches on the theology of eternal judgment they will be knee deep in eschatology and they will soon be accused of teaching meat.

It lists Baptisms plural. Many will avoid trying to explain how baptisms are plural because they think that is meat, and so they just talk about one Baptism. By doing that they have redefined the biblical definition of what is the first principles of the oracles of Christ thinking that baptisms plural is too much for the new Christian and what they have done is made up their own ideas about what is milk and what it meat.

So you see, if we do stick to the Biblical definition of the milk and use the Heb 6:1 list as an example instead of making up our own ideas of what is milk then we do well.

It is when people make up their own ideas about what is milk that I have an issue with.

Many will not teach these doctrines in Heb 6:1 in the way they should be handled because they say that their people are still needing milk and are not ready for the meat. LOL This IS the MILK.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The problem I have with this common idea is what people are calling the milk. If it is Hebrews 6:1 then fine.

I really need an example of what people are saying when they say that a new Christian needs milk. Because too often it seems like they are suggesting that they should be taught something that they are calling milk that is not what Hebrews 6:1 describes.

For example if I were teaching new Christians class all about the judgments of God in scripture and the theological reason for judgments there is a good chance people would say I am trying to teach them meat and they are not ready for it.

So I think many misunderstand this whole milk and meat concept making up ideas that the scriptures don't teach using verses that don't support their idea about milk and meat.

For example when Peter says as newborn babes desire the sincere milk of the word, he was not talking to new Christians only. He was talking to any believer. We should value the Word of God as our means of growth just as a newborn babe requires only milk. Only the Word will feed us. No matter how long we have known the Lord we are to..as newborn babes desire the milk of the Word.

It seems hard for people to stop thinking that the bible teaches that we should not give deep subjects to new Christians. It does not say that anywhere.

a new Christian needs to accept and believe this type of thing it’s simple , we don’t need deep understanding it’s a seed that needs to be planted in the mknd and heart and believed

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what I’m saying is this statement and all those like it we find in The Bible is teaching us truth about Jesus his purpose in coming is to save us , not to destroy us . He explores us to accept and believe because he can save us if we do.

Scriptures like John 3:16 are easy to swallow and become the basic reasons we first fall in love with Jesus he’s our savior , he came and died for our sins so we could love and have everlasting life with him if we believe……

this is milk that is for youngsters to establish them understanding the basics about Jesus he is for us not against us so like in the ot when God came near me spoke man did this

“Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, then we shall die.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭5:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“If I hear what Gods saying any more I’m gonna die “

when we accept the milk on the gospel like John 3:16 as new believers we find the opposite reaction to coming close and hearing his word

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This again is milk it’s teaching us that Gods word isnt there to condemn us , but to save us from our sins. As Christian’s we need to accept the milk parts because they are also true.

we can become rigid and legalistic like those of the law if we don’t allow for others to be immature but still belong to Jesus .

If we forget that everyday Gods mercy is renewed towards believers in him we can end up taking those who really truly need to accept the good pure Milk that teaches us he is on our side and completely everything he’s done and said is to save us we can have a distorted view of even who he is if we look not at Jesus but elsewhere to know him

the milk is easy to take d important to believe but as we grow meat becomes required more and more to keep us from becoming stagnant and living the life of a new born at the age of fourty

we have to grow up in faith just like in life so our diet changes as we grow we always still drink milk and always believe it forever after we first believe it becomes established but later we need the meat and potatoes or we become malnutritioned and weak and eventually we are a grown up trying to live as a baby with never growing up and taking responsibility and learning and growing

it’s important to have the right view of Gods word of we think it’s there to condemn us well stay away if we understand it’s there to save us we’ll come near and hear and believe and follow it

 

[Amanuensis]

a new Christian needs to accept and believe this type of thing it’s simple , we don’t need deep understanding it’s a seed that needs to be planted in the mknd and heart and believed

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what I’m saying is this statement and all those like it we find in The Bible is teaching us truth about Jesus his purpose in coming is to save us , not to destroy us . He explores us to accept and believe because he can save us if we do.

Scriptures like John 3:16 are easy to swallow and become the basic reasons we first fall in love with Jesus he’s our savior , he came and died for our sins so we could love and have everlasting life with him if we believe……

this is milk that is for youngsters to establish them understanding the basics about Jesus he is for us not against us so like in the ot when God came near me spoke man did this

“Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, then we shall die.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭5:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“If I hear what Gods saying any more I’m gonna die “

when we accept the milk on the gospel like John 3:16 as new believers we find the opposite reaction to coming close and hearing his word

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This again is milk it’s teaching us that Gods word isnt there to condemn us , but to save us from our sins. As Christian’s we need to accept the milk parts because they are also true.

we can become rigid and legalistic like those of the law if we don’t allow for others to be immature but still belong to Jesus .

If we forget that everyday Gods mercy is renewed towards believers in him we can end up taking those who really truly need to accept the good pure Milk that teaches us he is on our side and completely everything he’s done and said is to save us we can have a distorted view of even who he is if we look not at Jesus but elsewhere to know him

the milk is easy to take d important to believe but as we grow meat becomes required more and more to keep us from becoming stagnant and living the life of a new born at the age of fourty

we have to grow up in faith just like in life so our diet changes as we grow we always still drink milk and always believe it forever after we first believe it becomes established but later we need the meat and potatoes or we become malnutritioned and weak and eventually we are a grown up trying to live as a baby with never growing up and taking responsibility and learning and growing

it’s important to have the right view of Gods word of we think it’s there to condemn us well stay away if we understand it’s there to save us we’ll come near and hear and believe and follow it

Laying on of hands is milk. But who teaches it at all. And if they do, they think they are teaching the "deep things."

 

[Thewatchman]

We are in agreement about there being first principles of the oracles of Christ and that they should be a foundation laid first and how one can properly call that milk.

However many people will redefine milk as something other than these principles listed. They think those principles are too deep for the new Christian. For example it lists eternal judgement, and when one teaches on the theology of eternal judgment they will be knee deep in eschatology and they will soon be accused of teaching meat.

It lists Baptisms plural. Many will avoid trying to explain how baptisms are plural because they think that is meat, and so they just talk about one Baptism. By doing that they have redefined the biblical definition of what is the first principles of the oracles of Christ thinking that baptisms plural is too much for the new Christian and what they have done is made up their own ideas about what is milk and what it meat.

So you see, if we do stick to the Biblical definition of the milk and use the Heb 6:1 list as an example instead of making up our own ideas of what is milk then we do well.

It is when people make up their own ideas about what is milk that I have an issue with.

Many will not teach these doctrines in Heb 6:1 in the way they should be handled because they say that their people are still needing milk and are not ready for the meat. LOL This IS the MILK.

I do not have a problem with teaching Hebrews 6 to new Christians. We need to treat them like kids in school we teach them the building blocks 1+1=2 cat and show them a picture of a cat. Some will pick it up right away and be ready to move on others may take more time. Some will make it through High School others will get a doctoract and othere will be somewhere inbetween.
2nd Timmothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Romans, 1&2 Timmothy The list is long on good things to start themwith
Here is my problem to many "Christians" today have iching ears and to many churches are worried about what the distric, regional,
national, and world councal thank than what Gods word says. They want to preach all you have to do is believe in "the sweet baby Jesus" and put your money in the plate.
Ask them a meaty question like this
Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
If you have read that what does it say understand it. Many have read it few understand it.
Staying in Mark 13 28Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: 29So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. 30Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. 31Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. How does Jesus start this out. Now learn a parable of the fig tree. "Will when my pastor . . . gets around to teaching it I will understand it. that is not what Jesus said He said now not later
They will never get around to answering it, I am not even sure they know themselves.
Understand when I say churches I do not mean all of them. Jesus said 2 of the 7 were good so we know there is a few out there.

 

[Amanuensis]

I do not have a problem with teaching Hebrews 6 to new Christians. We need to treat them like kids in school we teach them the building blocks 1+1=2 cat and show them a picture of a cat. Some will pick it up right away and be ready to move on others may take more time. Some will make it through High School others will get a doctoract and othere will be somewhere inbetween.
2nd Timmothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Romans, 1&2 Timmothy The list is long on good things to start themwith
Here is my problem to many "Christians" today have iching ears and to many churches are worried about what the distric, regional,
national, and world councal thank than what Gods word says. They want to preach all you have to do is believe in "the sweet baby Jesus" and put your money in the plate.
Ask them a meaty question like this
Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
If you have read that what does it say understand it. Many have read it few understand it.
Staying in Mark 13 28Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: 29So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. 30Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. 31Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. How does Jesus start this out. Now learn a parable of the fig tree. "Will when my pastor . . . gets around to teaching it I will understand it. that is not what Jesus said He said now not later
They will never get around to answering it, I am not even sure they know themselves.
Understand when I say churches I do not mean all of them. Jesus said 2 of the 7 were good so we know there is a few out there.

You are defining the prophesy about Daniel being meat. You are probably right about calling these things meat. But sticking to the context of Hebrews as it relates to meat I see that the writer references things like the meaning of the Cheribims over the altar.

Heb 9:5The cherubim of glory were above the ark overshadowing the mercy seat. It is not possible to speak about these things in detail right now.

I would say that what the writer of Hebrews was communicating about meat was all of the shadows and typology of the OT as it relates to Jesus Christ. Therefore the prophesy of Daniel that Jesus told us about understood in the light of Jesus coming would fit this kind of pattern. Interpretating the OT in the context of Jesus.

 

[Thewatchman]

You are defining the prophesy about Daniel being meat. You are probably right about calling these things meat. But sticking to the context of Hebrews as it relates to meat I see that the writer references things like the meaning of the Cheribims over the altar.

Heb 9:5The cherubim of glory were above the ark overshadowing the mercy seat. It is not possible to speak about these things in detail right now.

I would say that what the writer of Hebrews was communicating about meat was all of the shadows and typology of the OT as it relates to Jesus Christ. Therefore the prophesy of Daniel that Jesus told us about understood in the light of Jesus coming would fit this kind of pattern. Interpretating the OT in the context of Jesus.

We were talking about Hebrews 6 and nothing eles in that book at that time and I also included places like 1&2 Timmithy Romans as good places to teach new christians from

 

[Amanuensis]

We were talking about Hebrews 6 and nothing eles in that book at that time and I also included places like 1&2 Timmithy Romans as good places to teach new christians from

Not sure what you mean. The reference to them needing milk is in Heb 5. The dialogue continues into 6 where examples of milk are listed, but the examples of the meat continue for several more chapters.

 

[Thewatchman]

Not sure what you mean. The reference to them needing milk is in Heb 5. The dialogue continues into 6 where examples of milk are listed, but the examples of the meat continue for several more chapters.

We are in agreement about there being first principles of the oracles of Christ and that they should be a foundation laid first and how one can properly call that milk.
This was a reply you gave to Nehemiah6 I am sure that is what I was talking about.
However many people will redefine milk as something other than these principles listed. They think those principles are too deep for the new Christian. For example it lists eternal judgement, and when one teaches on the theology of eternal judgment they will be knee deep in eschatology and they will soon be accused of teaching meat.

It lists Baptisms plural. Many will avoid trying to explain how baptisms are plural because they think that is meat, and so they just talk about one Baptism. By doing that they have redefined the biblical definition of what is the first principles of the oracles of Christ thinking that baptisms plural is too much for the new Christian and what they have done is made up their own ideas about what is milk and what it meat.

So you see, if we do stick to the Biblical definition of the milk and use the Heb 6:1 list as an example instead of making up our own ideas of what is milk then we do well.

It is when people make up their own ideas about what is milk that I have an issue with.

Many will not teach these doctrines in Heb 6:1 in the way they should be handled because they say that their people are still needing milk and are not ready for the meat. LOL This IS the MILK.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Laying on of hands is milk. But who teaches it at all. And if they do, they think they are teaching the "deep things."

I don’t think many folks understand and more misunderstand the laying on of hands. That’s doctrine milk is whatever builds faith In Christ

Mormons really emphasize laying on of hands claiming one can’t receive the Holy Ghost unless an appointed wot Ed’s lays their hands on you

but the doctrine isn’t there for that if that’s where your going with it

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44‬ ‭

“For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:46‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Some read this as you have to have an apostle lay his hands on you but it’s not so believing the gospel is how the spirit is received laying hands is about this

“they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5:14-16‬ ‭

it’s based o. What Jesus said about them laying hands on the sick and the sick becoming well because of the holt ghost and witness

 

[Amanuensis]

I don’t think many folks understand and more misunderstand the laying on of hands. That’s doctrine milk is whatever builds faith In Christ

Mormons really emphasize laying on of hands claiming one can’t receive the Holy Ghost unless an appointed wot Ed’s lays their hands on you

but the doctrine isn’t there for that if that’s where your going with it

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44‬ ‭

“For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:46‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Some read this as you have to have an apostle lay his hands on you but it’s not so believing the gospel is how the spirit is received laying hands is about this

“they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5:14-16‬ ‭

it’s based o. What Jesus said about them laying hands on the sick and the sick becoming well because of the holt ghost and witness

Yes, there are many scriptures to list and to explain about the laying on of hands. And when you do, many pastors would say that you are going into things that are too deep. They would say this is the meat. But they would be wrong. This is the milk if you want to define something that the scriptures refer to as milk.

That is what I am saying. Most of the examples that I have heard people use when defining the milk was more like treating the people like they rode the short bus to school.

People don't need milk because they are stupid, the main reason many congregations need milk is because they are carnal. Getting them out of that state is going to require some preaching about living a fully surrendered, no compromise holy life and walking out the love life of self sacrifice. Then they will be ready for their eyes to be opened to the revelation of their inheritance and the deep things of their position in Christ.

 

[Thewatchman]

I thank that there is a misunderstanding where I was trying to go with this thread. Yes I did call it Milk or Meat. I was aiming it at the teaching that most Christians get every time they enter there church. I also am trying to point out that those of us that do take this to heart that do want to follow in the footsteps of Jesus Peter, Paul, John . . .

Amos 8:11

English Standard Version
“Behold, the days are coming,” declares the Lord GOD, “when I will send a famine on the land— not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD.

Berean Study Bible
Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord GOD, when I will send a famine on the land—not a famine of bread or a thirst for water, but a famine of hearing the words of the LORD.

King James Bible
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

Verse 12

English Standard Version
They shall wander from sea to sea, and from north to east; they shall run to and fro, to seek the word of the LORD, but they shall not find it.

Berean Study Bible
People will stagger from sea to sea and roam from north to east, seeking the word of the LORD, but they will not find it.

King James Bible
And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.



We are seeing this today. There is a real need to be reaching people that are setting in the churches of your town, city that are being led the way of the wide gate. This is why I point out Paul's teaching in

1st Corinthians 3.1

English Standard Version
But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ.
Berean Study Bible
Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual, but as worldly—as infants in Christ.
King James Bible
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

Verse 2.

English Standard Version
I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready,
Berean Study Bible
I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for solid food. In fact, you are still not ready,
King James Bible
I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Verse 3.

English Standard Version
for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?
Berean Study Bible
for you are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and dissension among you, are you not worldly? Are you not walking in the way of man?
King James Bible
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Hebrews 5
Warning against Drifting Away
11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

2nd Timothey 4
Preach the Word
1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
6For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

 

[Dino246]

Let's borrow some truth from biology to get a handle on these concepts.

Milk is NOT inferior food. It is densely packed with nutrients and is perfectly designed to facilitate the growth and development of the infant. Don't think 'skim milk'; rather, think breast milk that a mother secretes for her newborn. It is rich in fats, sugars, protein, micronutrients and antibodies in the correct proportions that the baby needs while it is incapable of feeding itself.

For all its wonders, milk was not ordained by God to be consumed exclusively for the rest of one's life. Rather, He intended that the baby would grow and mature, and start to obtain its food by its own effort. All mammals eventually stop drinking milk and start eating "meat" (whole foods in their raw form). These provide the same nutrients but in different forms that the maturing/mature body is capable of processing.

Similarly, with the truths of the Christian faith, the teaching for new believers should be carefully prepared with a healthy balance of basic building blocks. Since new believers are unable to process the raw truths, mature believers have the responsibility to present these truths in basic forms. The "milk" must contain the same components as the "meat" but in simpler forms.

Frequently on this forum, people put across the idea that the material they are studying is "meat" while that which others are studying is "milk". There's a word for such ideas: arrogance. If you think that you have matured beyond milk, but consider others inferior because they don't have the "advanced knowledge and understanding" that you supposedly have, you are actually still sucking at the teat. Healthy adults don't mock or criticize babies; they protect and nurture them, and, if they are humble, can learn important lessons from them.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes, there are many scriptures to list and to explain about the laying on of hands. And when you do, many pastors would say that you are going into things that are too deep. They would say this is the meat. But they would be wrong. This is the milk if you want to define something that the scriptures refer to as milk.

That is what I am saying. Most of the examples that I have heard people use when defining the milk was more like treating the people like they rode the short bus to school.

People don't need milk because they are stupid, the main reason many congregations need milk is because they are carnal. Getting them out of that state is going to require some preaching about living a fully surrendered, no compromise holy life and walking out the love life of self sacrifice. Then they will be ready for their eyes to be opened to the revelation of their inheritance and the deep things of their position in Christ.

“People don't need milk because they are stupid”

no babies drink milk because they can’t digest real food yet is the idea. You don’t try feedin a baby meat and potatoes they will choke they can’t eat it yet …..

babies are held cared for nurtured all they do is get loved and provided for

at a point then a babe on is born in Christ but can’t forgets any real food has to start eating real food at some point

it’s not that being a babe in Christ is a bad thing we have to first be born before anything most any Christian starts at a place like this

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭

that’s milk for a babe. It’s inviting them to believe in Jesus remember though we’re takkkng about a new Christian

what happens is a mature Christian who sees the self as mature will suddenly demand the young Christian hold up to the nature Christian’s judgement and understanding

we try to put everything we know on people who don’t know much but they believe the simple things because the at all they understand “Jesus is lord he died for my sins and rose again. “

the Christian who thinks the self mature needs to discern thier own level of judgement and let thre others do the same

babes belong to God and mature Christian’s belong to God. As far as milk brother it’s part of birth you don’t get born again because you r
Understand laying hands on others regarding healing that’s church doctrine for those within the church already

The milk is the first parts of the word we can digest “ I’m a sinner , Jesus is sinless God sent him to die and be raised up for my sins and justification “

That’s basic Milk and something g we should never stop drinking even when we’re feasting on turkey dinners and fine wine or meat and potatoes

the cross is milk