Modern State of Israel: Is it biblical?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#21
Bro i agree with you 100%

Here is what replacement theology wants us to believe:

Physical people were physically scattered, but a DIFFERENT group of people was regathered and spiritually, instead of physically. Uhh yeah....

Because of my background as a judaizer I feel very "personal" about this. And its HARD evangelizing jews if you discount all the promises made to them in the prophets. Its ridicilous.
I almost vomit when I read those commentaries from the 1800s on biblehub. The Bible says "Jerusalem" and they comment on it saying "The gospel church here"... wait what? it didnt say anything about a gospel church... These guys just make it up as they go along.
Amen

How can the Christians (the church) be regathered, when it was NEVER scattered because of sin?

It makes no sense.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#22
Is it ok for sisters to join in conversation too?
A friend invited me to a messianic gathering. Yes like Paul wrote many years ago in the NT not all of Israel is saved. And his heart broke for them. But now we can see a lot of Israel coming to christ their Messiah, and its good they have their homeland back, although its a bit tenuous, but I believe its a God thing, even though from many perspectives it looks, how shall we say, dodgy.

Remember the kingdom split into Israel and Judah and at the time when Jesus came to earth, people proclaimed he would deliver Israel, yet the jews (from the tribe of Judah) resisted. Well they still resist today yet, on the other hand many are actually coming to know Him. (Hence, messianic jews) Many jews know God, but they dont know his as a Father who gave us his only son, jesus (Yeshua) yet as we gentiles continue to witness, they will know so that every tongue will confess that he is Lord of Lords, King of Kings.
Remember what paul said in romans 11. God has always kept a remnant, and he always will. But will also come a day when all will be saved.

But amen,, I know many christian people who are abrahams children (israel) in my church, and they love their messiah. Although they are not focused on land, nor are they proud of it (they are not proud of their nations continued sin) they are blessed in they see Gods prophecies come true.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#23
Yeah I agree there's a lot of prophecies about spiritual Israel and spiritual Jerusalem, but none of those verses apply to physical Israel.
This is my problem exactly. You are doing the same thing 1800s commentators on biblehub.

Jerusalem means a PHYSICAL CITY in the middle-east, okay? YOu know how i know? Because it talks about people living in the HILLS, and other EARTHLY business.

When it says nations are gathered against Jerusalem. It doesnt mean "The gospel church faces persecution from the papists" as they thought in the 1800s.
Here is what it means: A PHYSICAL CITY in the middle-east will be surrounded by armies. Okay?

Jerusalem means a physical city, army means an army, nation means a nation, gathered means gathered. Time of Jacob's trouble means a perilous time for Jacob. Egypt means Egypt the physical country in North Africa etc etc.
Thats some deep bible study tips for you guys.

Here is another deep truth: tribe of Israel means tribe of Israel, 144 000 from the tribes means.... guess what? Call me crazy but they mean 144 000, not the church or anything like that. IT DOESNT SAY CHURCH.

If the Bible talks about spiritual Israel, it will say it, okay? Like when Paul uses an ALLEGORY in galatians, he says "this is an allegory:" Or when the book of revelation uses symbols of stars, etc, but then in the first chapter TELLS US what those symbols mean.
Its really simple.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#24
Bro i agree with you 100%

Here is what replacement theology wants us to believe:

Physical people were physically scattered, but a DIFFERENT group of people was regathered and spiritually, instead of physically. Uhh yeah....

Because of my background as a judaizer I feel very "personal" about this. And its HARD evangelizing jews if you discount all the promises made to them in the prophets. Its ridicilous.
I almost vomit when I read those commentaries from the 1800s on biblehub. The Bible says "Jerusalem" and they comment on it saying "The gospel church here"... wait what? it didnt say anything about a gospel church... These guys just make it up as they go along.
Did you know that there's no such thing as replacement theology? You can't replace something that never existed from the start. The flesh descendants of Abraham and Israel never have been God's chosen people of the promises.

The children of the promise have always been God's elect or chosen people.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#25
This is my problem exactly. You are doing the same thing 1800s commentators on biblehub.

Jerusalem means a PHYSICAL CITY in the middle-east, okay? YOu know how i know? Because it talks about people living in the HILLS, and other EARTHLY business.

When it says nations are gathered against Jerusalem. It doesnt mean "The gospel church faces persecution from the papists" as they thought in the 1800s.
Here is what it means: A PHYSICAL CITY in the middle-east will be surrounded by armies. Okay?

Jerusalem means a physical city, army means an army, nation means a nation, gathered means gathered. Time of Jacob's trouble means a perilous time for Jacob. Egypt means Egypt the physical country in North Africa etc etc.
Thats some deep bible study tips for you guys.

Here is another deep truth: tribe of Israel means tribe of Israel, 144 000 from the tribes means.... guess what? Call me crazy but they mean 144 000, not the church or anything like that. IT DOESNT SAY CHURCH.

If the Bible talks about spiritual Israel, it will say it, okay? Like when Paul uses an ALLEGORY in galatians, he says "this is an allegory:" Or when the book of revelation uses symbols of stars, etc, but then in the first chapter TELLS US what those symbols mean.
Its really simple.
This is pointless... I'll leave.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#26
Did you know that there's no such thing as replacement theology? You can't replace something that never existed from the start. The flesh descendants of Abraham and Israel never have been God's chosen people of the promises.
LOL You said the flesh descendants of Abraham and Israel have never been God's chosen peopel of the promises............... uhhh

Have you EVER read the OT? Like, ever? Thats almost all its about. Unbelievable.

Jer 33:24 Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.
Jer 33:25 Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;
Jer 33:26 Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#27
Gen 17: 8 I will give to you and to your [h]descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

Remember this verse when you see people say God never elected the flesh children of abraham to be Gods children.

Either God made this promise, and he will keep it

Or this promise is a lie. And Gen 17 should be removed from our bibles.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#29
Gen 17: 8 I will give to you and to your [h]descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

Remember this verse when you see people say God never elected the flesh children of abraham to be Gods children.

Either God made this promise, and he will keep it

Or this promise is a lie. And Gen 17 should be removed from our bibles.
Ive noticed when I bring this up they say "Thats to Christians" who are Abraham's seed by faith in Christ (galatians 3)

Oy vey! What can we do with these guys.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#30
Ive noticed when I bring this up they say "Thats to Christians" who are Abraham's seed by faith in Christ (galatians 3)

Oy vey! What can we do with these guys.
To this I say, Why have Gods enemies controlled the land of cannan from AD 70 until today. If it was meant to be for the church, the church should be living in that land, and if she weas following God. Shoud be enjoying the peace God promised the children of abraham who was given that land..
 
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
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#31
Bro i agree with you 100%

Here is what replacement theology wants us to believe:

Physical people were physically scattered, but a DIFFERENT group of people was regathered and spiritually, instead of physically. Uhh yeah....

Because of my background as a judaizer I feel very "personal" about this. And its HARD evangelizing jews if you discount all the promises made to them in the prophets. Its ridicilous.
I almost vomit when I read those commentaries from the 1800s on biblehub. The Bible says "Jerusalem" and they comment on it saying "The gospel church here"... wait what? it didnt say anything about a gospel church... These guys just make it up as they go along.
Here is where those who hold to replacement theology get their theology(other verse, too, but this is the man one)...43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.”(Matthew 21) They will say the kingdom was literally taken away from them and given to the church. Not so, in my opinion. Paul wrote “1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God.(Romans 3) God entrusted the Jews with His covenants, word, promises, &c. They were the ones who were to keep these, as the Philistines, Amalekites, Assyrians, and any other nation we’re not given these by God, only Israel. But due to their continual rebellion, these were taken away from them, and now the church, which is comprised of both Jews and Gentiles, has these. The church now spreads God’s word worldwide. Also, God is able to graft Israel in by faith in Jesus.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#32
LOL You said the flesh descendants of Abraham and Israel have never been God's chosen peopel of the promises............... uhhh

Have you EVER read the OT? Like, ever? Thats almost all its about. Unbelievable.

Jer 33:24 Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.
Jer 33:25 Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;
Jer 33:26 Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

They are not ALL ISRAEL (spiritual descendants) that are of ISRAEL (flesh descendants). Jeremiah 33:26 IS NOT talking about flesh descendants. The only covenant God had with the flesh descendants was to keep the law and none of them did. Flesh Jews were never and never will be the children of the promise.

Until you understand Romans 9:6, you will never understand the Old Testament passages that you think apply to the flesh descendants.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#33
Here is where those who hold to their theology...43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.”(Matthew 21) They will say the kingdom was literally taken away from them and given to the church. Not so, in my opinion. Paul wrote “1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God.(Romans 3) God entrusted the Jews with His covenants, word, promises, &c. They were the ones who were to keep these, as the Philistines, Amalekites, Assyrians, and any other nation we’re not given these by God, only Israel. But due to their continual rebellion, these were taken away from them, and now the church, which is comprised of both Jews and Gentiles, has these. The church now spreads God’s word worldwide.
And amazingly, If we read. The church will rebell also.. And God will give it BACK to the jews..
 

JimmieD

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2014
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18
18
#34
Gideon took 300 with him and defeated the Midianites and Amalekites. That is a miracle, seeing their numbers were as locusts and their camels as numerous as the sand on the seashore(Judges 7).
We aren't talking about Gideon specifically though are we? I didn't say Gideon's win wasn't a miracle.

My statement was that an underdog winning or winning a war in general wasn't miraculous in principle. Your post is a specific event that in no way counters my point. What you would have to show is that the modern state of Israel has experienced a miracle in winning it's wars or winning as an underdog.

If winning a war or winning as an underdog is miraculous in principle, then what are the consequences? How many nations or underdogs have experienced God's miraculous favor? Do you really want to suggest that winning a war, or winning as an underdog are always miraculous so that only divine intervention explains such things?
 

Deade

Called of God
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yeshuaofisrael.org
#35
Judah was the name given to one son, but also the name given to the southern kingdom.

Israel is the name of the great grandson of Abraham to whome was given birth to the 12 chjildren, who make up the nation called by his name
Did you even read Gen. 48:16? Jacob (Israel) passed the rights to his, Isaac's and Abraham's names to Joseph's sons. Jacob was Abraham's grandson not great grandson. We know about the Southern Kingdom and the remnants regathering belong to that. When God puts Israel back together it will be all 12 tribes. The Southern Kingdom consists of Judah, Simeon (assimilated into Judah), part of Benjamin (partially assimilated) and part of Levi (the priests serving in the Southern Kingdom). The rest of Benjamin and Levi were lost when the Assyrians carried the 10 Northern tribes away. Lost to history and supplanted another people into the Promised Lands. :cool:
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#36
Did you even read Gen. 48:16? Jacob (Israel) passed the rights to his, Isaac's and Abraham's names to Joseph's sons. Jacob was Abraham's grandson not great grandson. We know about the Southern Kingdom and the remnants regathering belong to that. When God puts Israel back together it will be all 12 tribes. The Southern Kingdom consists of Judah, Simeon (assimilated into Judah), part of Benjamin (partially assimilated) and part of Levi (the priests serving in the Southern Kingdom). The rest of Benjamin and Levi were lost when the Assyrians carried the 10 Northern tribes away. Lost to history and supplanted another people into the Promised Lands. :cool:
Yes I made a mistake, Grandson.
But you also just contradicted yourself in two posts.


Yes, When God puts it back together, it will be all 12 tribes, ISRAEL/JACOB as they are called by both names. NOT judah
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#37
Romans 9:6 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;

Does this version help?

For they ARE NOT all Israel that come out of the loins of Israel. Why is this hard to understand? The word of God was preached to all of Israel but it didn't take hold on all of them, they rejected it.... THESE REJECTORS ARE NOT THE TRUE ISRAEL! The promises to Abraham DO NOT apply to them.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#38
Romans 9. Paul defends pauls chosing of Isreal. His first argument, Not everyone is spiritual isreal (spiritual children of Abraham)

This defense paul made has absolutely nothign to do with Gods promise of land given to a nation comming from one seed of abraham (Abraham Isaac and Jacob) as he explains later in chapter 11. And let us not forget. No one who was given the land was promised heaven. Salvation has always been by grace through faith (abraham proved this when he believed and God said he was saved) so this argument is invalid in a few ways.

People who want to use this to prove ammil/preterism are taking this passage out of context.
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
314
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43
#39
Lu 21: 24 "And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the gentiles, until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled."

In all of recorded history, no people has been mingled among another larger society and kept their national, religious, or cultural identity for more than five hundred years, save one and that one, not only kept their own specific identity; but they regained their homeland, fulfilling Jesus' prophecy literally almost two thousand years later.
PTL!
 

Deade

Called of God
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yeshuaofisrael.org
#40
To this I say, Why have Gods enemies controlled the land of cannan from AD 70 until today. If it was meant to be for the church, the church should be living in that land, and if she weas following God. Shoud be enjoying the peace God promised the children of abraham who was given that land..
You are mixing the physical promise to Abraham of inheriting the promised land to his seed with the spiritual promise of the church. The church will not take over the promised land. When God sets it up, those people claiming to be Israel may or may not have a part in it. Most of the tribes of Israel are lost to history, but God knows where they are. :cool: