Money

[AnotherJesusPerson]

Soo.... My boyfriend and I are going to a church money class on Sunday nights. Our teachers are trying to teach us how to use our money in a Godly organized way. They are trying to teach us how to organize our money so that we have more of it. They say that the first thing you need to do is tithe (give to the church). They say that giving to the church is giving to God. We believe that giving to the least of these (Matthew 25:31) is giving to God. Although, they believe that we should tithe first. But giving to the "least of these" is technically offerings. I don't know who in their right mind would give to the church tithe before giving to a hungry person but could anyone please help us out with more points to bring up? (with scripture preferred)​

 

[GreenNnice]

The Lord leads. Tithe is important. You will know. Pray and do. Giving to the poor and needy is a thing that God wants us to do, giving to 'the least of these,' to children, will get you blessed, in fact, Jesus says that we will be rewarded for it, Jesusgirl

I don't know about you, but I want God's rewards, which, you can bet your bottom dollar, will come on Earth as they will when you get your mansion or home on the new Earth, some will get one kind of abode and others' other kinds, BASED ON REWARDS given by God for our fruit-full ness of life (following Him as He leads us) , and, Love, (Loving our neighbors, praying for those who persecute us, telling family about Jesus) and laboring in Love (tithing, giving to the poor) on Earth .

 

[Bookends]

Soo.... My boyfriend and I are going to a church money class on Sunday nights. Our teachers are trying to teach us how to use our money in a Godly organized way. They are trying to teach us how to organize our money so that we have more of it. They say that the first thing you need to do is tithe (give to the church). They say that giving to the church is giving to God. We believe that giving to the least of these (Matthew 25:31) is giving to God. Although, they believe that we should tithe first. But giving to the "least of these" is technically offerings. I don't know who in their right mind would give to the church tithe before giving to a hungry person but could anyone please help us out with more points to bring up? (with scripture preferred)​

Do both, simple solution.

 

[4enlightment]

Soo.... My boyfriend and I are going to a church money class on Sunday nights. Our teachers are trying to teach us how to use our money in a Godly organized way. They are trying to teach us how to organize our money so that we have more of it. They say that the first thing you need to do is tithe (give to the church). They say that giving to the church is giving to God. We believe that giving to the least of these (Matthew 25:31) is giving to God. Although, they believe that we should tithe first. But giving to the "least of these" is technically offerings. I don't know who in their right mind would give to the church tithe before giving to a hungry person but could anyone please help us out with more points to bring up? (with scripture preferred)​

Just keep on giving to the needy but do not expect nothing in return for your deeds, but just do it out of love. And careless about what the church tell you to do. You don't need someone to tell you how to spend your money since you can see what's under the wool that your church has covered themselves with. Just buy things what you truly need, not what you desires to have.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Soo.... My boyfriend and I are going to a church money class on Sunday nights. Our teachers are trying to teach us how to use our money in a Godly organized way. They are trying to teach us how to organize our money so that we have more of it. They say that the first thing you need to do is tithe (give to the church). They say that giving to the church is giving to God. We believe that giving to the least of these (Matthew 25:31) is giving to God. Although, they believe that we should tithe first. But giving to the "least of these" is technically offerings. I don't know who in their right mind would give to the church tithe before giving to a hungry person but could anyone please help us out with more points to bring up? (with scripture preferred)​

Tithing as taught today is not biblical. The tithing that churches teach today is an income tax. Even when tithing was a law in Israel, it wasn't an income tax.

GOD will be happier with you, IMO, if you follow your heart and give to those in need.

I have a lot more to share if you're interested.

 

[crossnote]

Just be careful, some churches exist for monetary gain/growth/ bigger buildings/fatter cats etc. but some exist for truly spreading the Gospel/feeding the sheep/ helping their neighbor etc.. Watch for the clues.

 

[SpiritofFire]

There is no need for money now other than for killing those who don't have it.

 

[Kerry]

Actually if you look at the law of the OT and calculate all the things that they gave. Bulls,lambs, grain, fruit and so on, some estimate that it was closer to 28%. Not to mention their free will offerings of money. Look what David gave to build the temple, the most expensive building ever built. Nearly the whole thing was overlaid in gold.

 

[psychomom]

Just be careful, some churches exist for monetary gain/growth/ bigger buildings/fatter cats etc. but some exist for truly spreading the Gospel/feeding the sheep/ helping their neighbor etc.. Watch for the clues.

you could ask to see their budget.

 

[AnotherJesusPerson]

Tithing as taught today is not biblical. The tithing that churches teach today is an income tax. Even when tithing was a law in Israel, it wasn't an income tax.

GOD will be happier with you, IMO, if you follow your heart and give to those in need.

I have a lot more to share if you're interested.

If you would like to give more I would be interested.

 

[AnotherJesusPerson]

Thank you everyone. Maybe to make my point more clear though... Churches put more money into building buildings than to feed the poor. Our youth group puts more money into going on field trips and trying to do small things to fit Jesus into it, rather than feeding the poor for Jesus and fitting other small things into it. I just think their time and money is spent on the wrong things. I've kind of brought it up before but not exactly. Before I bring up this exact thing I would just like maybe some scriptures about whats more important.

 

[yac11]

Three years ago I started back to church and for the first time ever began a series of bible studies. About 2 years into the studies we touched on this topic. I go to a non denominational church. We were told that tithing 10% was done and instructed in the OT days. That since Jesus came and paid it all for us, that being the NT, we are not required to tithe 10%. We also believe that we can talk directly to God and pray directly to him. So though the church needs our offerings to continue we only need to look at and listen for God's direction on what he wants us to offer. If we listen we will always tithe the correct amount. We belong to a mega church, there rarely talk about money.

Honestly, I am a person who is not very organized and forgets to bring a check for my church too many times. So I make it up when I do remember. If I have money then I do reach into my wallet.

However one morning in December I was in church and mad at myself for not preparing the night before and bringing my offering, when I heard that voice deep down inside say, " Next time give the money that comes to you". I heard this but didn't think much of it, until two days later my dad's check came in the mail. He sends his kids 1,000 each to help for Christmas. My mind immediately went to what I heard in church and I knew what God was telling me.

I obeyed God. The hardest thing to do was to tell my husband who is not on the same path with God that I am. Believe me a thousand dollars is a lot when you have medical issues as many of you know. But we know to always listen to God.

 

[reject-tech]

Do both, simple solution.

Yes. And give directly to the poor first, then if you don't have enough to give at church, drop a note in there that says, "sorry, gave it all to the poor this week"
If they have a problem with that, woe!

 

[woka]

Listening to God that too for me is key. The order in which the Lord tells us to give is our family, the community and then the church. In the OT the 10% that was tithed was in the form of the first grains collected, a big feast was given and the poor were fed. What remained was for the farmers to harvest and sell and make a profit....to feed their families.

Tithing for me is silly really as everything belongs to God 100% of it, so when He tells me to give I do, and when He tells me to not I don't. Also tithing is not just about money, we fed a family for months and months, I would take the mom to the shosand she would buy whatever groceries they needed and pay for it. This is tithing hey? I run a safe house for abused and neglected, orphaned children, this is tithing hey? I offer up my time for counselling work, rape victims etc, this is tithing hey???

Please do not let anyone make you feel less than, because you have not given 10% of your pay check to the church. You are right on the mark with how you feel about it.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If you would like to give more I would be interested.

I'll cover stuff incrementally in several posts.

Tithe simply means "ten", or "tenth", which was holy to GOD:

And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD. Leviticus 27:30
​

The tithe was the tenth part, not 10%. If someone had 9 lambs born to them in a year, he was not required to give 10% of nine lambs for that year. The tenth lamb belonged to GOD.

Many religious leaders today define the tithe as being 10% of gross income, i.e., an income tax. The scriptures, though, paint a different picture. In the law, the tithe is always described as being the tenth of the increase from the field, i.e., crops and livestock. There were many income producing professions in ancient Israel, but there is no scriptural evidence that any of those who worked in them were ever required to pay tithes. It would have been contrary to the law of Moses for Jesus to have tithed on his wages he received as a carpenter, or for James, Peter, Andrew, and John to have tithed on the fish they caught in the Sea of Galilee. Income taxation is not a biblical concept; it is a modern invention.

The tithe honored GOD for giving the increase. A laborer works and is owed wages, but a farmer works and is owed nothing! Whatever he receives for his labors is a gift of GOD. Men labored, but GOD gave the increase. Making a tree produce fruit, or multiplying a seed 100-fold, is something no man can do, and glorifies GOD. The tithe, therefore, is returned to GOD to honor and glorify GOD the goodness of his giving. On the other hand, men labored and were owed wages. Since there was no increase from GOD, no tithe was required. What they earned was theirs to keep - all of it. Whatever they decided to give of that was their choice and business, but it was not required by law.

This is all a picture of Christ. We labor in the flesh and are owed the wages of sin, which is death. The free gift of GOD, however, is eternal life in Christ through faith. We labor in Christ, but GOD gives the increase through his spirit.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

People claim that since the Levites were given no inheritance in the land of Israel, they depended on the tithe because they had no way of supporting and feeding themselves. This is used today by those who promote tithing to prove that we must tithe. Is this claim true?

No. The Levites were given 48 cities and approximately 900 acres (as best as I can calculate) surrounding each city to grow crops and raise livestock.

Command the children of Israel, that they give unto the Levites of the inheritance of their possession cities to dwell in; and ye shall give also unto the Levites common land for the cities round about them. And the cities shall they have to dwell in; and the common land of them shall be for their cattle, and for their property, and for all their beasts. And the common land of the cities, which ye shall give unto the Levites, shall reach from the wall of the city and outward a thousand cubits round about. And ye shall measure from without the city on the east side two thousand cubits, and on the south side two thousand cubits, and on the west side two thousand cubits, and on the north side two thousand cubits; and the city shall be in the midst: this shall be to them the common land of the cities. Numbers 35:2-5

So all the cities which ye shall give to the Levites shall be forty and eight cities: them shall ye give with their common land. Numbers 35:7

​

Also, the Levites were part of the professional class in ancient Israel. They were teachers, judges, members of the Sanhedrin, builders, architects, musicians, singers, scribes, and law enforcement officers.

 

[garyarnold]

Preacher: You tithe on the first ten percent of your income.

God’s Word: You tithe on crops, and every tenth animal that passes under the rod. NOT the first, but the tenth. See Leviticus 27:30-33. Preachers are mixing firstfruits with the tithe and they are NOT the same. In Nehemiah 10:37-38 we learn that the firstfruits were taken to the temple for the priests, and the tithe was taken to the Levites to go into their cities.

Preacher: The Levites worked full-time at The Temple.

God’s Word: The Levities and priests were divided into “24 courses” and they rotated working at The Temple one week out of every 24 weeks. Therefore, the priests and Levites actually worked at The Temple about two weeks a year. The rest of the time they had regular jobs. See First Chronicles 24 for the priests and chapters 25 and 26 for the Levites.

Preacher: You tithe the BEST to God.

God’s Word: You tithe every tenth animal whether that animal be good OR BAD. See Leviticus 27:30-33.

Preacher: The firstfruits of your income belong to God.

God’s Word: In the Old Testament, every time a firstfruits offering is mentioned it is referring to the first of the crop, assets that came from God’s hand, not man’s labor. Firstfruits offerings has nothing to do with income.

Preacher: The tithe was taken to The Temple.

God’s Word: The tithe was taken to the Levites to go into their cities. See Nehemiah 10:37-38.

Preacher: Malachi 3:10 Take all the tithes to the storehouse.

God’s Word: The Levites received the tithe, and they were required to take a tenth of the tithe to the priests. ONLY that tithe went to the storehouse, NOT the tithe from the people. Again, see Nehemiah 10:37-38.

Preacher: You are robbing God if you don’t bring your tithe to the church. Malachi 3:8-10.

God’s Word: The priests were robbing God, not the people. The priests robbed God of the tithe by stealing the Levites portion (Nehemiah 13). The priests robbed God of the offerings by giving the worst and keeping the best (Malachi 1).

God defined His tithe in Leviticus 27:30-33 as HOLY. How can anyone change God’s definition and then call a tenth of their income a HOLY tithe!

 

[garyarnold]

NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE pays the Biblical tithe today.

THE FIRST TITHE
Leviticus 27:30-33 defines this tithe as a tenth of crops and animals in herds and flocks.
Numbers 18 gives the ordinances, or instructions, for this tithe, and commands this tithe be taken to the Levites.
Purpose of this tithe: to support the Levitical Priesthood.

SECOND TITHE
Deuteronomy 14:22-27: aka The Festival Tithe - a tenth of crops, plus add to that the firstborn animals, and take to the yearly feasts.
Purpose of this tithe: “that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always”

THIRD TITHE
Deuteronomy 14:28-29: aka The Three-Year Tithe aka The Poor Tithe - a tenth of crops, kept at home, and invite the Levites, widows, orphans, stranger to eat.
Purpose of this tithe: to feed the poor.

Now, tell me. Which of the above three tithes commanded by God does anyone follow today?

The ONLY people in the Old Testament that were commanded to tithe were those who INHERITED THE PROMISED LAND WITH EVERYTHING ON IT. They got the land, house, animals, crops, etc. ALL FREE AND CLEAR. No mortgage payment or rent to pay. And THEY were commanded to tithe on the crops and animals and take it to the Levites who INHERITED the tithe INSTEAD OF the promised land with everything on it. No one else tithed. Wage earners did not tithe. Jesus did not tithe as a carpenter. Paul did not tithe as a tent maker. Peter did not tithe as a fisherman.

HOW CAN YOU COMPARE THAT WITH CHRISTIANS WHO HAVE TO PAY THEIR MORTGAGE PAYMENT OR RENT, INCOME TAXES, PROPERTY TAXES, SALES TAXES, ETC?

There is no way to justify making some “principle” out of the Biblical tithe and then apply it to Christians today. It is just flat out wrong and makes no sense at all.

The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice, while for others, even giving 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, ONLY the farmers tithed, and it was a tenth. The New Testament teaches the principle of equal sacrifice instead of a tenth. Equal sacrifice is much harder to achieve, if not impossible, than giving a tenth.

 

[jb]

Soo.... My boyfriend and I are going to a church money class on Sunday nights. Our teachers are trying to teach us how to use our money in a Godly organized way. They are trying to teach us how to organize our money so that we have more of it. They say that the first thing you need to do is tithe (give to the church). They say that giving to the church is giving to God. We believe that giving to the least of these (Matthew 25:31) is giving to God. Although, they believe that we should tithe first. But giving to the "least of these" is technically offerings. I don't know who in their right mind would give to the church tithe before giving to a hungry person but could anyone please help us out with more points to bring up? (with scripture preferred)​

Tithing is NOT a New Testament practice, the Lord Jesus and the Apostles of the early Church did NOT teach tithing...period!

It is an Old Testament practice.

You can find a bit of a study on it Here

Yahweh Shalom...

 

[Splagna]

You and your BF taking a money management class is just awesome. Good job! I did the same thing years ago and it really helped me get and keep my finances in order. And like you my wife and I are bothered by the spending priorities of the churches we have attended over the years. But please do not take what’s below to the classes and argue with them. Instead, please prayerfully consider these points and apply them to your own life.

It seems amazing that the tithe teachers ignore other financial responsibilities in the Mosaic Law. For example loans were to be interest free to other countrymen (Deuteronomy 23:19, 20), and loans were to be forgiven in entirety every seven years (Deut. 15). And Mr. Israelite don’t you dare decline a loan due to the nearness of the year of remission cause that is sin (Deut. 15:9). Are these laws practiced in churches today?

Based on the Law God gave the tithe to the Levites for their service, since they had no inheritance in the land (Numbers 18:21-29). At times the tithe also went to the poor (Deut. 14:27-29; 26:12, 13) and was used in a common meal (Deut. 12:6, 11, 17). Does the church today share the tithe with the poor?

Furthermore, other than a few verses (Mat. 23:23; Luke 11:42; 18:12), which are chiding the Pharisees for an impure heart, tithing isn’t mentioned in the New Testament. The Pharisees obeyed the Mosaic Law and tithing was reinforced for them, however, when Pharisee believers/Christians showed up at the big meeting in Jerusalem and tried to force the Gentiles to keep the Mosaic Law, they’re argument was rejected and the consensus was that we are not under the Mosaic Law (Acts 15). The tithe was part of the Mosaic Law and we are no longer under this law, therefore, we are no longer under the tithe. It would have been inconsistent for Paul to preach against circumcision but for tithing.

The Old Testament uses strong language regarding not paying tithes by equating lack of tithing to robbing God (Malachi 3:8-10). The NT uses strong language regarding the poor.

Whoever has the world’s goods, and beholds his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him (1 John3:17 NASB)?

Here John uses my favorite Greek work: splagna which is translated heart or compassion in the NT. Literally it means ”guts”. That’s how the word is used in Act 1:18 concerning Judas. His splagna or bowels gushed out. Basically, Christians took over this secular Greek word and Christianized it to give a word picture to compassion. In other words John is saying that if we see a brother in need and ignore the compassion we feel for him, how can the love of God be in us? Well, how can it?