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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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If you say so. But if God is a consuming fire, how many fires do you see? Again there is no way to change your mind. Hell is real and I'm telling you that we can avoid the grave! Now! The first step in this is to stop using money.

Of course the people including you won't listen. That's what makes this hard to do. The answers to our problems is so easy children can get it right, but we "adults" want to complicate it with our "superior" knowledge over one another. Blessings and cursing cannot come from the same mouth.


If one died for all, then all were dead. Learn what this means.
Avoid the grave? ? ? I thought you believed the Bible.

Hebrews 9:27-28 (HCSB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And just as it is appointed for people to die once—and after this, judgment—
[SUP]28 [/SUP] so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him.


Stop using money? ? ? So is that a plan to rob God of Tithes and Offerings? NO, getting rid of money is actually going to be the Antichrist's PLAN.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/97034-mark-beast-666-a-2.html#post1643698 My Post #25.
 
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Avoid the grave? ? ? I thought you believed the Bible.

Hebrews 9:27-28 (HCSB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And just as it is appointed for people to die once—and after this, judgment—
[SUP]28 [/SUP] so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him.


Stop using money? ? ? So is that a plan to rob God of Tithes and Offerings? NO, getting rid of money is actually going to be the Antichrist's PLAN.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/97034-mark-beast-666-a-2.html#post1643698 My Post #25.
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. YES! We can avoid the grave and be transformed.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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If you say so. But if God is a consuming fire, how many fires do you see? Again there is no way to change your mind. Hell is real and I'm telling you that we can avoid the grave! Now! . . .

Revelation 21:8 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But the cowards, unbelievers, vile, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars {the kind of liars described in 1 John 2:4}their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. YES! We can avoid the grave and be transformed.
NOT! God does not lie and HE said it has been given unto every man once to die. THAT we can thank Adam for. The part of us that HAS ETERNAL LIFE, is the human spirit after it is born again.

As for when we are TRANSFORMED, in the flesh, THAT comes with the RESURRECTION from the grave.

1 Corinthians 15:53-54 (ASV)
[SUP]53 [/SUP] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[SUP]54 [/SUP] But when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For we say this to you by a revelation from the Lord: We who are still alive at the Lord’s coming will certainly have no advantage over those who have fallen asleep {DIED}.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel’s voice, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Acts 17:32 (ASV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked; but others said, We will hear thee concerning this yet again.

Acts 24:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.


You are a bit too young yet, BUT WAIT until you get my age and you can FEEL just about all parts of your body wearing out.

And just in case you have not noticed, every single person on the PLANET grows old and dies. I repeat, the eternal life for the here and NOW, that Jesus was talking about when HE said, "shall never die"; was not the flesh but the human spirit. YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN.

2 Corinthians 5:8 (NKJV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP] We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

AT DEATH:

The born again human spirit leaves the body and goes to be present with the LORD

The non-born again human spirit leaves the body and goes to HADES.


And what has the grave got to do with the Lake of Fire, the unbelievers are RESURRECTED to face their final Judgement before Christ just before they are sentenced to the Lake of Fire. NOW HADES has a lot to do with the grave, because that is where the unbeliever's human spirit and possibly soul goes, to await that final Judgement.
 
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Again all those verses and you say I'm wrong and quote a verse. If I have crucified the flesh, then I have fullfilled my appointed time. If I die to the flesh, it is because the world killed me because they did not listen. Again I say that death can end today if that is what you truly want. It starts with no longer using money.
 
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The dead in Christ did rise first. Remember the graves were opened at His resurrection. You are waiting for a resurrection, but He IS the resurrection!

Get rid of money, give of all we have freely to all. This will make all things common. Enough for all beyond your wildest dreams! We will then at once be transformed when we reach that level of love for one another.

Thus is the shortened version as there will be many hardships once the dollar forcibly collapses.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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I told you that there is ONLY one DIVINE ETERNAL GOD, and that is the TRIUNE GOD, WHO is made up three personages, with three different functions within GOD, YET they are still ONLY ONE GOD. The expression Eternal GOD, means HE NEVER HAD A BEGINNING AND HE NEVER WILL HAVE AN END. So your question as to when Jesus received His divinity, was totally flawed.

Again you are not reading the whole thing. We only have the highlights of the life of Jesus, READ the last couple verses in JOHN.
I didn't ask the question...I was commenting on the question asked by daniel606, I believe... Yes, we have only some highlights... I think it's interesting to see which things are written down as time goes by...
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Different Bible Translations do not cause me any PROBLEMS. As long as it is a VALID TRANSLATION and NOT a Paraphrase. I know that some are going to want to throw stones at me for saying this, but TECHNICALLY the KJV in a lot of places is only a Paraphrase and not a Translation from original language manuscripts. READ the Original Preface of the 1611 Authorized King James Version, and you will find that the translators admitted that the source of a lot of their work was from Earlier English Manuscripts. THAT IS PARAPHRASING AND NOT TRANSLATING. Yes, I read every word of that Original Preface and that Ancient English tied my brain in a knot, stretched and twisted it, like a rubber band, until it SNAPPED. IT took me three days to read that preface, because I kept getting headache just trying to figure out what the author was saying. But I did glean enough to understand that the original KJV, is NOT a pure Translation, as some Paraphrasing was used too. Do not get me wrong, I still think the KJV is a very good Translation/Paraphrase. But it is always better to actually TRANSLATE, instead of Paraphrase.

Like I have said before, EVERY TIME I do a study or Post on this or other sites, I have ten translations of the Bible open, and I have NO problem with any one of them. THEY ALL SAY THE SAME THING. The WORD OF GOD is what the verses MEAN BY WHAT THEY SAY, and NOT which Valid Translation you are using. AND I CAN FIND THE EXACT SAME MEANING IN ALL OF THESE. NKJV, HCSB, NASB, ESV, KJV, ASV, NRSV, NIV, GWT, and YLT. I can TEACH what I believe, and WHY I believe it, from ALL OF THEM.
yes! reading the different texts and getting the same meaning from them... also, two people can read the same text and get two different meanings from it...I used to say, I'm led by the spirit, the person who gets a different meaning isn't...
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Again all those verses and you say I'm wrong and quote a verse. If I have crucified the flesh, then I have fullfilled my appointed time. If I die to the flesh, it is because the world killed me because they did not listen. Again I say that death can end today if that is what you truly want. It starts with no longer using money.
I only quote Scripture, BECAUSE it is the ULTIMATE AUTHORITY, and giving you the verses discern truth from error and to learn from is FAR better than giving you my opinions.

However, to me it sounds like you believe the strange theology that you were taught by WHOEVER, over and above what Scriptures say. I conform my theology to what the Scriptures actually says and means, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

Who taught you that you can cheat the grave? ? ? We do not cease, living when the body dies, and the BODY WILL DIE; but we live ON, because the human spirit does not die with the BODY. If we are born again (NO OTHER WAY) that on-going Eternal Life in our human spirit, is literally in HEAVEN with our LORD. IF we are not born again, the on-going existence of the human spirit WILL BE in Hades being tormented day and night.

As for the wild theory that GOD wants us to STOP using money, let me show what the Scriptures really do say:

Malachi 3:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, 'How have we robbed You?' In tithes and offerings.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] "You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing Me, the whole nation of you!
[SUP]10 [/SUP] "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this," says the LORD of hosts, "if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.

1 Corinthians 16:1-4 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also:
[SUP]2 [/SUP] On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And when I come, whomever you approve by your letters I will send to bear your gift to Jerusalem.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But if it is fitting that I go also, they will go with me.

Proverbs 19:17 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Kindness to the poor is a loan to the LORD, and He will give a reward to the lender.

Exodus 30:15-16 (NIV)

[SUP]15 [/SUP] The rich are not to give more than a half shekel and the poor are not to give less when you make the offering to the LORD to atone for your lives.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Receive the atonement money from the Israelites and use it for the service of the Tent of Meeting. It will be a memorial for the Israelites before the LORD, making atonement for your lives."

Matthew 6:2-4 (NASB)

[SUP]2 [/SUP] "So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] "But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.Romans 13:5-7 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

Matthew 22:17-21 (NKJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP] Tell us, therefore, what do You think? Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?"
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, "Why do you test Me, you hypocrites?
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Show Me the tax money." So they brought Him a denarius.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And He said to them, "Whose image and inscription is this?"
[SUP]21 [/SUP] They said to Him, "Caesar's." And He said to them, "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."

Luke 22:36 (HCSB)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] Then He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money-bag should take it, and also a traveling bag. And whoever doesn’t have a sword should sell his robe and buy one.

Oh my, did you ever misinterpret something: NOT ONLY did HE tell them if they have a money-bag, they should take it. BUT HE tells them what is the BIBLICAL foundation for our Second Amendment self-defense rights. He is saying arm yourself to protect the money from thieves.

It appears to me that you have made an ERROR in interpretation of the following verses.

Mark 10:17-22 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up, knelt down before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
[SUP]18 [/SUP] “Why do you call Me good?” Jesus asked him. “No one is good but One—God.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] You know the commandments: Do not murder; do not commit adultery; do not steal; do not bear false witness; do not defraud; honor your father and mother.”
[SUP]20 [/SUP] He said to Him, “Teacher, I have kept all these from my youth.”
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Then, looking at him, Jesus loved him and said to him, “You lack one thing: Go, sell all you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But he was stunned at this demand, and he went away grieving, because he had many possessions.

That is NOT what Jesus wants EVERYONE TO DO. Jesus could see that young rich man's heart, and Jesus KNEW that the Young Rich Man, had let his money and possessions become more important to himself than GOD. JUST LIKE WHEN ABRAHAM appeared to think more of ISAAC than GOD. It is telling us that GOD is a jealous GOD and HE expects us to KEEP HIM in the most important position in our lives. AND WHENEVER something or someone in our lives becomes more important to us than GOD HIMSELF, we can expect GOD to challenge us on it.
 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
yes! reading the different texts and getting the same meaning from them... also, two people can read the same text and get two different meanings from it...I used to say, I'm led by the spirit, the person who gets a different meaning isn't...
That is because it is the LIVING WORD, and it speaks to our hearts when it applies to our current circumstances. I would not call that a DIFFERENT MEANING THOUGH. It is just a DEEPER meaning.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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I didn't ask the question...I was commenting on the question asked by daniel606, I believe... Yes, we have only some highlights... I think it's interesting to see which things are written down as time goes by...

Sorry for the misunderstanding. It is good when we agree.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
The dead in Christ did rise first. Remember the graves were opened at His resurrection. You are waiting for a resurrection, but He IS the resurrection!

Get rid of money, give of all we have freely to all. This will make all things common. Enough for all beyond your wildest dreams! We will then at once be transformed when we reach that level of love for one another.

Thus is the shortened version as there will be many hardships once the dollar forcibly collapses.

Flamingspirit, WHO has been teaching you these twisted interpretations. YES HE IS THE FIRST FRUITS of MANY Resurrections to come.

1 Corinthians 15:20-25 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel’s voice, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Therefore encourage one another with these words.


PLEASE get your theology from what the BIBLE actually says, and not from whoever has been teaching you.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
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The dead in Christ did rise first. Remember the graves were opened at His resurrection. You are waiting for a resurrection, but He IS the resurrection!

Get rid of money, give of all we have freely to all. This will make all things common. Enough for all beyond your wildest dreams! We will then at once be transformed when we reach that level of love for one another.

Thus is the shortened version as there will be many hardships once the dollar forcibly collapses.

Flamingspirit, WHO has been teaching you these twisted interpretations. YES HE IS THE FIRST FRUITS of MANY Resurrections to come.

1 Corinthians 15:20-25 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel’s voice, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Therefore encourage one another with these words.


PLEASE get your theology from what the BIBLE actually says, and not from whoever has been teaching you.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. YES! We can avoid the grave and be transformed.

SHOW US the Chapter and Verse you are misinterpreting.
 
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Flamingspirit, WHO has been teaching you these twisted interpretations. YES HE IS THE FIRST FRUITS of MANY Resurrections to come.

1 Corinthians 15:20-25 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel’s voice, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Therefore encourage one another with these words.


PLEASE get your theology from what the BIBLE actually says, and not from whoever has been teaching you.
If I tell you the source, you will act just like the leaders did in Jesus' day.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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Do I have to show verses saying that we must crucify the flesh to be in Christ? That means to die.
IT MEANS CRUCIFY (sacrifice) SELFISH DESIRES, and submit to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

Luke 9:23 (GW)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] He said to all of them, “Those who want to come with me must say no to the things they want, pick up their crosses every day, and follow me.
 
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I don't know about theology. I know I have died once and was raised to sit in the heavenlies with Christ. I know that death has no power over me and that I am of the first resurrection.

This is how I am able to speak on heavenly things like the abolishment of world homelessness and hunger. These such things are easy to grasp because the natural man is dead to me who considered such to be impossible.
 
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IT MEANS CRUCIFY (sacrifice) SELFISH DESIRES, and submit to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

Luke 9:23 (GW)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] He said to all of them, “Those who want to come with me must say no to the things they want, pick up their crosses every day, and follow me.
When a person dies what he considered "evil" AND what he considered "good" goes to the grave. You cannot kill half of you.