Moses law in stone vs. Christ’s law in our hearts.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,706
594
113
#61
these are the curses the law brought in -------pretty awefull existence trying to keep something you can't keep ---and bring Curses upon yourself --------Why would anyone want to keep laws that you can't keep and bring Curses upon yourselves is beyond me -------these Curses are still in effect today people for your disobedience ------A curse causeless shall not alight the scripture says ---------by trying to keep the laws that you can't keep ---your causing the curses to come upon yourselves -------

Read and weep

Deuteronomy 28:15-68

New International Version



Curses for Disobedience

15 However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:

16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.
17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed.
18 The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.
19 You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out.
20 The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.[a] 21 The Lord will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. 23 The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. 24 The Lord will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed.
25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth. 26 Your carcasses will be food for all the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind person in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.
30 You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her. You will build a house, but you will not live in it. You will plant a vineyard, but you will not even begin to enjoy its fruit. 31 Your ox will be slaughtered before your eyes, but you will eat none of it. Your donkey will be forcibly taken from you and will not be returned. Your sheep will be given to your enemies, and no one will rescue them. 32 Your sons and daughters will be given to another nation, and you will wear out your eyes watching for them day after day, powerless to lift a hand. 33 A people that you do not know will eat what your land and labor produce, and you will have nothing but cruel oppression all your days. 34 The sights you see will drive you mad. 35 The Lord will afflict your knees and legs with painful boils that cannot be cured, spreading from the soles of your feet to the top of your head.
36 The Lord will drive you and the king you set over you to a nation unknown to you or your ancestors. There you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone. 37 You will become a thing of horror, a byword and an object of ridicule among all the peoples where the Lord will drive you.
38 You will sow much seed in the field but you will harvest little, because locusts will devour it. 39 You will plant vineyards and cultivate them but you will not drink the wine or gather the grapes, because worms will eat them. 40 You will have olive trees throughout your country but you will not use the oil, because the olives will drop off. 41 You will have sons and daughters but you will not keep them, because they will go into captivity. 42 Swarms of locusts will take over all your trees and the crops of your land.
43 The foreigners who reside among you will rise above you higher and higher, but you will sink lower and lower. 44 They will lend to you, but you will not lend to them. They will be the head, but you will be the tail.
45 All these curses will come on you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the Lord your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you. 46 They will be a sign and a wonder to you and your descendants forever. 47 Because you did not serve the Lord your God joyfully and gladly in the time of prosperity, 48 therefore in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and dire poverty, you will serve the enemies the Lord sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you.
49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a fierce-looking nation without respect for the old or pity for the young. 51 They will devour the young of your livestock and the crops of your land until you are destroyed. They will leave you no grain, new wine or olive oil, nor any calves of your herds or lambs of your flocks until you are ruined. 52 They will lay siege to all the cities throughout your land until the high fortified walls in which you trust fall down. They will besiege all the cities throughout the land the Lord your God is giving you.
53 Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities.
58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name—the Lord your God— 59 the Lord will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses. 60 He will bring on you all the diseases of Egypt that you dreaded, and they will cling to you. 61 The Lord will also bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not recorded in this Book of the Law, until you are destroyed. 62 You who were as numerous as the stars in the sky will be left but few in number, because you did not obey the Lord your God. 63 Just as it pleased the Lord to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess.
64 Then the Lord will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. There you will worship other gods—gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your ancestors have known. 65 Among those nations you will find no repose, no resting place for the sole of your foot. There the Lord will give you an anxious mind, eyes weary with longing, and a despairing heart. 66 You will live in constant suspense, filled with dread both night and day, never sure of your life. 67 In the morning you will say, “If only it were evening!” and in the evening, “If only it were morning!”—because of the terror that will fill your hearts and the sights that your eyes will see. 68 The Lord will send you back in ships to Egypt on a journey I said you should never make again. There you will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,706
594
113
#62
so Jesus comes fulfils the laws so that the Curses can go away and bring the Blessings back for anyone who receives Him as their Lord and Saviour through having Faith In Him ----not by keeping the laws

you see the law required -----us to play a part and God played a part ----Keep the Laws and be Blessed ---disobey the laws and be cursed ------well man couldn't keep the laws so the Curse was always in place -death reigned under the law ----

The New Covenant of Grace -----only required God to do His part -----we didn't have to do any works to be Blessed ----Jesus defeated the Curse and brought back the Blessings ------all we need is Faith to partake in the blessings of God ------these Blessings are still in place today for anyone who Accepts Jesus as their Lord and Saviour -------that is Be Born Again -----the Curse died ----and the Blessings came alive ------

And Jesus gave a New Command ------Love God with all your heart --soul and mind and love your neighbour as yourself ------the Law of Love ------

these are the Blessings ----that God gave when he gave the 10 commandments for obeying them ---But no man could obey them or keep them so these Blessings were docile ----as the Curse was dominate and in place -----


Deuteronomy 28

New International Version

Blessings for Obedience

28 If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth.

2 All these blessings will come on you and accompany you if you obey the Lord your God:

3 You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country.
4 The fruit of your womb will be blessed, and the crops of your land and the young of your livestock—the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.
5 Your basket and your kneading trough will be blessed.
6 You will be blessed when you come in and blessed when you go out.
7 The Lord will grant that the enemies who rise up against you will be defeated before you. They will come at you from one direction but flee from you in seven.

8 The Lord will send a blessing on your barns and on everything you put your hand to. The Lord your God will bless you in the land he is giving you.

9 The Lord will establish you as his holy people, as he promised you on oath, if you keep the commands of the Lord your God and walk in obedience to him. 10 Then all the peoples on earth will see that you are called by the name of the Lord, and they will fear you. 11 The Lord will grant you abundant prosperity—in the fruit of your womb, the young of your livestock and the crops of your ground—in the land he swore to your ancestors to give you.

12 The Lord will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands. You will lend to many nations but will borrow from none. 13 The Lord will make you the head, not the tail. If you pay attention to the commands of the Lord your God that I give you this day and carefully follow them, you will always be at the top, never at the bottom. 14 Do not turn aside from any of the commands I give you today, to the right or to the left, following other gods and serving them

 

Jesusfollower

Active member
Oct 21, 2021
352
197
43
jamaica
#63
Two things:

1) Have you studied the Laws of the Spirit of Life and that they are Effectual?

2) What do you do with passages like the one below?

Romans 6:15 NLT - "Well then, since God's grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not!"

I guess there's a third:

Are you not interpreting the Bible when you read it? It's odd to suggest that no one can "interpret" the Bible. This is what Hermeneutics is all about.

I did not say the bible cannot be interpreted. The passage i gave earlier (Matthew 5 18-20) is clear and leaves no place to interpretation. the same for the one below;

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

speaking of interpretation, people have a tendency to interpret the bible to favor themselves. I did that myself in the past but i know better now. Sometimes the words of GOD require some efforts on our part to understand properly and put into practice ( the commandments ) .

From 1 john 5: 1-3 (KJV);

1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

As for Romans 6-15 it is entirely your choice who to believe, Jesus Christ of paul.

Blessings brother In Christ.

JF
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#64
People need to understand that God didn't want to give the laws in the first place ----the Israelite's ask for rules to keep and told God they would keep any rules that he gave them ---so God gave them the 10 commandments knowing full well they were not able to keep them ------God wanted the Israelite's to see that they needed a Saviour -----So the people ask for the laws and God complied to their asking -----the 10 Commandments were not God driven but human driven ------

The Laws God gave are perfect -------Humans trying to keep them are flawed and unable to keep them ------the law brought in the Curse ------if you want to be Cursed Keep the Laws
You are about 2,500 years late in telling us about God's creation. The earth was about that old when Moses came. The tree of knowledge that contained the knowledge of sin was in the garden of Eden in the garden God created.

The moment Adam and Eve disobeyed and brount sin and death to man, God gave blood on the altar for forgiveness of that sin so we can have life through this blood that is the blood of Christ.

If you will read Leviticus 1 to 17, it tells of all that system that Christ fulfilled.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,799
1,596
113
#65
The tree of the knowledge of good and evil did not contain the knowledge of sin. The SIN was eating of the tree when the man and woman were told NOT to eat of the tree. This is how sin entered the world: by the rebellious act of man.

The Law was given "because of transgressions". It was not God's original intent. The transgression was this: the people did not go into the presence of God when called up. Had they done so, the Law would have never been given because it's the presence of the Lord that produces liberty.

The Law is a ministry of death. It only produced slaves.

But even at the time when the Law was given, the glory of the law was passing away. Compared to the ministry of righteousness in Christ, the Law had no glory.

"But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious."

Christ completed the Law. The Laws that are written on our "inner most being" are not the laws given at Sinai. These laws testify to the nature of God. Obeying this nature is done by being led by the Spirit of God.

We should pity those who turn back to the Law after receiving the truth of the ministry of righteousness.
 
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
#66
And thus my repentance(wisdom to know) and my wife makes the organic, sugar free, blueberry muffins.
By the Grace of our Savior i redeemed my time and overcame prostrate cancer by the Word, Prayer and turning in the Right direction of God's ordained nutrition.
No, i am not speaking of dietary Law but of the life in the foods God created for our health.

We also use organic whole bean coffee to avoid, as much as possible, chemicals.
Whole leaf organic Green Tea is proven to kill cancer cells.
What flavor does it have if it's sugar free? You know, in terms of nutrition, "sugar" usually refers to glucose, which is not limited to white granulated table sugar, any starchy food is considered sugar, and some refined grain raises blood glucose even faster than white sugar because it's full of starch, which is a gigantic conglomerate of numerose glucose molecules bound together.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
113
#67
I did not say the bible cannot be interpreted. The passage i gave earlier (Matthew 5 18-20) is clear and leaves no place to interpretation. the same for the one below;

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Interesting. So, you're saying that I cannot speculate as to why Jesus would refer to these "people" as lawbreakers? I would contend that there is a very good reason for it, but if you're saying that I cannot speculate, or, interpret, then what can I say? :D
 
J

JAPOV

Guest
#68
Ummmmmm... just another stupid question;
Doesn't "evil" equate to "sin"?
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#70
What flavor does it have if it's sugar free? You know, in terms of nutrition, "sugar" usually refers to glucose, which is not limited to white granulated table sugar, any starchy food is considered sugar, and some refined grain raises blood glucose even faster than white sugar because it's full of starch, which is a gigantic conglomerate of numerose glucose molecules bound together.
No added refined/processed sugar, corn syrup or any of that stuff and she uses gluten free organic flour

My wife will add some fresh Raw honey from local Hiver but a very small amount.

i start, middle and end my day with a Green powder mix and a special powder nutrition.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
113
#71
No added refined/processed sugar, corn syrup or any of that stuff and she uses gluten free organic flour

My wife will add some fresh Raw honey from local Hiver but a very small amount.

i start, middle and end my day with a Green powder mix and a special powder nutrition.
I bought lame decaf green tea from Walmart. I don't think it's the same thing as what you told me to buy earlier. I forgot that I was supposed to buy the whole leaf. Good gravy.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
113
#73
the judeaizers try to make Paul contradict Jesus. one of their many tricks.
Right! In my studies, I've never found that Paul contradicted Jesus in any way, but instead, I found that Paul completed the teachings of Christ; expounding on Christs teachings to make them more understandable.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#76
I bought lame decaf green tea from Walmart. I don't think it's the same thing as what you told me to buy earlier. I forgot that I was supposed to buy the whole leaf. Good gravy.
Right! In my studies, I've never found that Paul contradicted Jesus in any way, but instead, I found that Paul completed the teachings of Christ; expounding on Christs teachings to make them more understandable.
Hello my Dear Brother - please no cheap walmart green tea - as you said = "lame"

Please get to a health food store and buy some Raw Pumpkin Seeds as well - i have them in the morning with my tea or coffee.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
113
#78
Hello my Dear Brother - please no cheap walmart green tea - as you said = "lame"

Please get to a health food store and buy some Raw Pumpkin Seeds as well - i have them in the morning with my tea or coffee.
Yeah, I totally forgot. I still have your list of things to buy, though. :)

I should have told you that my last blood draw showed a low/normal PSA. No sign of cancer in my blood. So, I was able to skip the last biopsy last year.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
113
#80
Is it corrected now Brother?
I thought you were shocked by what I wrote about Paul/Jesus above. Is the cancer corrected? Well, I'll do another blood test this June.

I do find it a bit odd that I have a normal blood sample when I had the blood draw called by a high-end clinic from Seattle. These people in Wenatchee have treated me like a battery for their machines, or, a source of money. In other words, I wouldn't put it past them that they falsified my first blood sample. The doctor wanted me to have an immediate removal of my prostate . . . I told him "negative. Not going to happen."

I don't trust these people in this po-dunk town,