Music in Church?

[skipp]

To add to what I said, I've also heard individuals claim that their choice for a church is one whose worship service is "hot", which consists of Loud and Upbeat because apparently that is where they'll find God...I feel bad at the thought that people aren't comfortable in their faith to see God in the loudest to the quietest of situations (Elijah hearing God's voice in a gentle breeze anyone?)

My dad used to go around playing guitar music in churches in our area back when he was young. This was the 60's. A lot of these churches were holiness churches and one of the preachers told my dad to make sure to play as fast as possible to "keep the spirit moving". During the service my dad played 'Johnny B. Goode' and nobody seemed to notice, they just kept dancing around the church. Afterwards they kept saying "wow, the spirit sure was moving tonight!" There's a thin line between getting excited by loud, fast music during a church service and getting excited by loud, fast music during a rock concert.

Music can be very manipulative. I can actually understand why some churches would be wary about it. We should be careful to tell the difference between being moved by the music itself and being moved by God.

 

[JesusMyOnly]

Perhaps it's leading her to seek advice. (Proverbs 11:14, Proverbs 19:20, etc.)

Yes, I like hearing what people believe especially if its different than my views. I don't just believe with what I'm told right away. I'll study it and will look at it over time. But I do like to build a base somewhere. And in this case with this specific question I just wanted to see bible verses that people interpreted that musical instruments are not allowed. lol

 

[oldhermit]

Yes, I like hearing what people believe especially if its different than my views. I don't just believe with what I'm told right away. I'll study it and will look at it over time. But I do like to build a base somewhere. And in this case with this specific question I just wanted to see bible verses that people interpreted that musical instruments are not allowed. lol

The only NT texts that specifically address how we are commanded to engage in this particular mode of worship is Col 3:16, "Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God."
"and
Eph 5:19, "speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord;"

In these two texts we age given two different methods for teaching one another and admonishing one another.
1. We are instructed to teach one another through the reading of the Psalms.
2. We are instructed to encourage one another through the singing of hymns and spiritual songs.
The instrument by which this is to be offered is the heart.

 

[posthuman]

And in this case with this specific question I just wanted to see bible verses that people interpreted that musical instruments are not allowed. lol

as far as i know, it's exactly those two verses (Ephesians 5:19, Colossians 3:16), and it's a very strict interpretation of these, saying that if it's not specifically 'authorized' by mention in the NT epistles, then it's de-facto taboo.

problem as i see it is that those verses, with the same strict interpretation of 'authorization' do not allow for any conversation that's not in "psalms hymns and spiritual songs" - no one seems to mind not​ talking in psalms - and that if we look at the actual book of Psalms, as these scriptures suggests our conversation ought to be made up of, they have in them many references to praising God with musical instruments.

no argument from me that music has to be a part of worship, or that music can't be used for harm either.
one person praises God with his voice, and that's to the Lord, and another in silence, and that's to the Lord, and another with a drum or a lute, and that's to the Lord as well.
this can really quickly degenerate into meaningless quarreling.. so that's the last i want to say about it.

 

[SeaBass]

"teaching and admonishing one another in psalms .. "
"speaking to yourselves in psalms .. "

allow me then, as you suggest i should, to literally and strictly follow what the scripture says:

It is a good thing to give thanks unto the Lord,

and to sing praises unto thy name, O Most High:​

To shew forth thy lovingkindness in the morning,

and thy faithfulness every night,​

Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery;

upon the harp with a solemn sound.​

For thou, Lord, hast made me glad through thy work:

I will triumph in the works of thy hands.​

O Lord, how great are thy works!

and thy thoughts are very deep.​

A brutish man knoweth not;

neither doth a fool understand this.
​

(Psalm 92:1-6)

Psa 66:13-15 "I will go into thy house with burnt offerings: I will pay thee my vows, Which my lips have uttered, and my mouth hath spoken, when I was in trouble. I will offer unto thee burnt sacrifices of fatlings, with the incense of rams; I will offer bullocks with goats. Selah."

Will you literally, strictly offer animal sacrifices as David for one is a debtor to the whole law, Gal 5:3; James 2:10? No cherry-picking verses out of the OT.

 

[Sophia]

It is not against the Letter of the Law nor the Spirit of the Law, and is useful for edification and encouragement of the Body. If someone has it in their conscience to not have instrumental accompaniments, then they have that freedom to abstain from them. The command to sing is not exclusive, but inclusive, and a strong command.

 

[oldhermit]

It is not against the Letter of the Law nor the Spirit of the Law, and is useful for edification and encouragement of the Body. If someone has it in their conscience to not have instrumental accompaniments, then they have that freedom to abstain from them. The command to sing is not exclusive, but inclusive, and a strong command.

Inclusive of what?

 

[Siberian_Khatru]

Yes, I like hearing what people believe especially if its different than my views. I don't just believe with what I'm told right away. I'll study it and will look at it over time. But I do like to build a base somewhere.

I respect that and think that's definitely a wise approach.

 

[SeaBass]

Inclusive of what?

...and I would like to also know why Sophia says the command to sing NOT exclusive?

Was not God's command to Noah to use gopher wood exclusive in Noah using any other wood than gopher?

 

[MsLimpet]

Hi,

This has always been a quandary about instrumental music during worship and an on-going debate. I cannot provide scripture that it is necessary or allowed, but I would like to see scripture that says it is.

 

[Sophia]

Inclusive of what?

an exclusive command excludes other actions, such as using the word "only". An inclusive command includes an action. A strong inclusive command makes that action a necessary inclusion.

...and I would like to also know why Sophia says the command to sing NOT exclusive?

Was not God's command to Noah to use gopher wood exclusive in Noah using any other wood than gopher?

Does God's command to be gentle with others exclude being humble, charitable, or loving toward others?
They all work together, just as singing and accompaniment work together, as is commanded in the psalms, and as is prophesied in Revelation.
I respect your conscience, but am not held by it in any way. I feel I would be hiding my talent in the ground if I was to not play music in praise of my Lord.

 

[oldhermit]

Hi,

This has always been a quandary about instrumental music during worship and an on-going debate. I cannot provide scripture that it is necessary or allowed, but I would like to see scripture that says it is.

I am afraid you will fond no such scripture.

 

[MsLimpet]

I am afraid you will fond no such scripture.

Sorry if I do not understand...I will find no scripture allowing or not allowing. Thanks.

 

[oldhermit]

an exclusive command excludes other actions, such as using the word "only". An inclusive command includes an action. A strong inclusive command makes that action a necessary inclusion.


Does God's command to be gentle with others exclude being humble, charitable, or loving toward others?
They all work together, just as singing and accompaniment work together, as is commanded in the psalms, and as is prophesied in Revelation.

You should know this is not true. Even the Law of Moses demonstrates this is not true. It is no different in the NT with apostolic command.

 

[SeaBass]

Does God's command to be gentle with others exclude being humble, charitable, or loving toward others?

No, for there are other verses that tell men to be humble, charitable and loving towards others. But there is no other NT verses commanding the Christian to play IM.

They all work together, just as singing and accompaniment work together, as is commanded in the psalms, and as is prophesied in Revelation.
I respect your conscience, but am not held by it in any way. I feel I would be hiding my talent in the ground if I was to not play music in praise of my Lord.

Was God's command to Noah to use gopher wood exclusive in that Noah could not use any other wood than gopher? IF so, then why was it exclusive and not the command to sing?


I know someone who has the talent to kick field goals. During worship should I hold the ball and let him kick field goals so his talent does not go to waste? No, just because one has a talent does not mean that talent is to be used in worship unless authorized by God's word.

 

[oldhermit]

Sorry if I do not understand...I will find no scripture allowing or not allowing. Thanks.

I apologize for being unclear. I think you will be hard pressed to find a text in the NT that allows the use of instruments in the worship of the Church either by direct command or by inference. Also as a simple matter of historical record, it was not until 1,000 years after the Church began that instruments were ever allowed in Church worship. This beggs the question, "WHY"

 

[MsLimpet]

I apologize for being unclear. I think you will be hard pressed to find a text in the NT that allows the use of instruments in the worship of the Church either by direct command or by inference. Also as a simple matter of historical record, it was not until 1,000 years after the Church began that instruments were ever allowed in Church worship. This beggs the question, "WHY"

Thank you for clearing that up...

The departure of the Bible and churches' wanting to do things their way, not what the Bible teaches.

 

[oldhermit]

Thank you for clearing that up...

The departure of the Bible and churches' wanting to do things their way, not what the Bible teaches.

Yes, I think this issue is a perfect example of the Church wanting to satisfy its desire for the aesthetics. It is an example of satisfying what we want and what pleases us. God has always been very clear that our sole obligation is to please him.

 

[Sophia]

You should know this is not true. Even the Law of Moses demonstrates this is not true. It is no different in the NT with apostolic command.

What am I supposed to think is not true? Inclusive commands? You are joking right? How does the Apostolic command to sing somehow exclude instruments? If it excludes instruments, then it also excludes writing them down, and excludes shouting them, and excludes ... anything else but speaking and singing in psalm. I respect your conscience on the issue, but not your reasoning. Inclusive and exclusive commands are a basic and fundamental part of language.

So you are against music as a form of worship, even though many psalms require it as stated in their introduction? Are those sections now abolished by the New Covenant, or do they agree with the New Covenant? They agree, as does all Scripture.

 

[oldthennew]

1COR.13:6-11.

there are many voices in the world as well as many instruments,
may we all use them wisely when edifying our Father and the Church.

there is a ' carnal beat' that most of us recognize when we hear it,
very ancient, very unhealthy, very powerful, very unholy,
it can take over one's senses and take you another place that is not
good or proper for those who want to worship in truth and humility.

for ourselves, we were led away from those un-natural 'beats' and
gladly left them behind, we came to love God's lovely 'nature rhythms'
that come from the Spirit, they calm and restore and tug at our
inner-most core, creating a most satisfying peace.

(getting-down for God, has taken us into a whole new meaning)