Must a Christian read the Ten Commandments to Know How God wants them to live?

[Mitspa]

For they being ignorant of Gods righteousness and going about to establish their own......

HOW? of course by the law ...torah

It would have been that they had never known the way of righteousness....like a dog to its vomit they turn back to the law (the strength of sin)

 

[gotime]

Answers above

just one point on this, Deut 30 says that it is the Lord who will circumcise their hearts.

 

[Mitspa]

You know this is really not that hard to grasp?

"God is love"
"His law in our hearts"
" all the law fulfilled in one word"

 

[gotime]

For they being ignorant of Gods righteousness and going about to establish their own......

HOW? of course by the law ...torah

It would have been that they had never known the way of righteousness....like a dog to its vomit they turn back to the law (the strength of sin)

Are you suggesting that God gave them a hopeless situation?

How do you suppose A Jew under the Old Covenant could be saved?

 

[Mitspa]

Are you suggesting that God gave them a hopeless situation?

How do you suppose A Jew under the Old Covenant could be saved?

Not me...I did not write the bible! Here is what the bible clearly says as to the purpose of the law....

Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

 

[gotime]

Not me...I did not write the bible! Here is what the bible clearly says as to the purpose of the law....

Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

So then you think the bible teaches that God gave them a hopeless situation?

Still you have not answered the second question what are your thoughts on the second?

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

So then you think the bible teaches that God gave them a hopeless situation?

In the Law, yes. There is no hope in the Law, just condemnation.

But in Christ? In Him there is hope where none other exists.

 

[Hizikyah]

Revelation 12:17
New American Standard Bible
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

 

[Mitspa]

So then you think the bible teaches that God gave them a hopeless situation?

Still you have not answered the second question what are your thoughts on the second?

I have spoken with the evident word of God...not what I think it should say but what it clearly says...what part of the scripture do you disagree with?


Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

 

[gotime]

I'll post it anyway lol in case anyone has spare time on their hands and wants to read it Have to post it in two parts:






Romans 6:14 says, “For sinshall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but undergrace.” (NIV) If ever there wasa statement of Paul’s to cling to, friend, it is this one. For what is moreimportant in the Christian life than sin not being your master? Many people canwrite books on how to overcome sin, but Paul tells us in eighteen words. And whowould know better than Paul? When he lived under the law he was the chief ofsinners, a blasphemer, and a violent man. He was so zealous to protect thePharisaic religion – a religion that pinned its hopes of Heaven on strictobedience to the law − that he was responsible for families being thrown intoprison for being Christians. Have you ever read Romans chapter seven, friend?Much of it is a tale of despair, of anguish, and of sin being Paul’s master,for he is recalling his time as a Pharisee before his conversion toChristianity. After his conversion, however, this same Paul became just aszealous to defend the need for righteous living as a Christian. For at thatpoint, he was not living under the law, but under grace.
Now what does Paul meanexactly by the Christian not being under the law? Well he states in Romans10:4, “For Christ is the end of the law forrighteousness to every one that believeth.” (KJV, emphasis mine)
So we see, when Paul sayswe are not under the law, he means the Christian is not under a law ofrighteousness before God. So Paul is not saying Christ is the end of the lawfull stop. No! He says Christ is the end of the law for righteousness. The law remains, therefore, but the penalty attachedto it for breaking the law (sin) is removed. You see, if you are not under a law ofrighteousness before God, you cannot be made unrighteous in His sight for yourimperfections concerning those laws, can you? It is not possible. You cannot be condemned, therefore, for your imperfections wherethose laws are concerned. You are off the hook. This is what so many find sohard to reconcile, however. They find it so hard to accept the Christian is notunder a righteousness of obedience to the law before God. They know that mustmean you cannot be condemned for your sin, the penalty, for it must have beenremoved, and to them, that gives a person a licence to sin. You see, however, itis much easier to understand Paul’s comments about us not being under the lawif we accept the core terms of being under the New Covenant. I would place thembefore you again, if I may, in Hebrews 10:16-17:

Thisis the covenant I will make with them after that time,says the Lord. ‘I will put my laws intheir hearts,and I will write them ontheir minds.’ Then he adds: ‘Their sins and lawless actsI willremember no more.’” (NIV, emphasis mine)

As I have previouslymentioned, the New Covenant hinges on not one, but two core points. At thepoint of conversion, the Holy Spirit writes the law on our minds and places iton our hearts. We have then been born again. We have been changed into people whowant to obey in our hearts the law God desires us to keep. At the very momentthis happens, we are not under law but under grace, for we have a Saviour from oursin. Our sins and lawless acts will be remembered no more. You see, friend,Jesus cannot be your Saviour from sin unless you are born again. For He willnot be anyone’s Saviour from sin unless they desire in their heart to live asHis Father wants them to. You see, God is not stupid. He didn’t make a covenantthat would give anyone a license to sin if the penalty for sin were removed. Bornagain people cannot view this covenant that way, for they want to obey fromtheir hearts. That is the whole point of being born again. If you want to obeyGod from your heart, as I have previously mentioned, it is impossible for youthen to wilfully − without conscience − seek to break God’s laws. It cannothappen, friend. Jesus said to Nicodemus, “Ye must be born again.” (emphasis mine) It is not an option; it ispivotal. Without that happening, you cannot be saved.
You see, no matter which countryyou live in, you are expected to obey the laws of your land, aren’t you? Thatdoesn’t mean, however, you want to obey them all in your heart, does it. Theyare legal laws written down (or typed) on pieces of paper; they are not placedin your heart. Because that is the case, there is a penalty attached to themfor non-compliance to dissuade you from breaking them, isn’t there? And thatpenalty deters most from breaking whichever laws of their land they do not wantto obey in their hearts. If the penalty wasn’t there, you could happily go androb a bank and suddenly become a millionaire, couldn’t you? After all, what is thereto stop you? You see, however, the law God requires you to keep has beentransferred from an external law written on tablets of stone, to an internallaw written on tablets of human hearts. Paul states in 2 Corinthians 3:3, [SUP]“[/SUP]Youshow that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written notwith ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.” (NIV, emphasis mine)
Now, friend, why would thelaw be transferred onto your heart if the penalty for sin (breaking the law)must remain for you? If the penalty must remain, the law would remain where itwas, wouldn’t it? So, because Christians have been born again, they are notunder law but under grace. Paul preached the New Covenant, and he preached itmightily. You have been changed into someone who wants to obey God in yourheart, and because that has happened, your sins and lawless acts will beremembered no more. You are in a covenant of grace. You are not under the lawfor righteousness before God.
No matter how much bornagain people want to obey, however, they never will perfectly obey the wholelaw of God. If anyone could have done that, there would have been no need forJesus to die for our sins, for then we could have attained Heaven under thelaw.
You see, friend, there is apass mark, if you like, of obedience to the law to be righteous before Godunder it, and that pass mark is beyond man to achieve, for that pass mark is100 percent perfect obedience. James 2:10 states, “For whoever keeps the wholelaw and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.” (NIV)
James is quite clear,friend. If you stumble at just one point under the law, it is as if you havebroken all of it. In Galatians 3:10-11, Paulagrees with James:

For all who rely on the works of the law are undera curse, as it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue to doeverything written in the Book of the Law.’Clearly no one whorelies on the law is justified before God, because ‘the righteous will live byfaith.’ (NIV)

Paul is telling us if werely on works of the law to save us, we are under a curse, for then we wouldhave to do everything written in the law. He states that no one could ever bejustified before God this way, for they cannot perfectly obey the whole law andreach the pass mark required under it. The righteous, therefore, will live byfaith.
Now some try to mix a bitof law with a bit of faith, but that is not possible either. Paul states inRomans 4:14: “For if those who depend onthe law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, because the law brings wrath.” (NIV)
That is also clear, friend.If you rely on obedience to the law, faith can mean nothing to you; therefore,you are cut off from grace, for grace comes through faith. The reason lawbrings wrath is because you cannot meet the standard set under it to berighteous before God. There is only onecovenant, friend, and that covenant is pure grace, not diluted grace. Suchgrace does not exist.
My uncle was a gamekeeper.Often in the evenings when it was dark, he and his son would drive to the edgeof a field and park the van so that it faced the field. Everything was always quietand peaceful when they arrived; hardly a sound came from the field. My cousinwould climb into the back of the van with a gun in his hand. When he was wellpositioned, my uncle turned on the headlights and lit up much of the field. Allof a sudden rabbits scurried around in a very animated fashion. They bolted totry to get away from the glare of the headlights, for they sensed there wasgreat danger in them. Now, friend, it would be a very stupid rabbit that rantoward the headlights, wouldn’t it? For it would be scampering to where thedanger lay. Now before you become a Christian you are a sinner, but inignorance of that fact. You carry on in the dark breaking the law of God,without being perturbed by it, for you don’t know the danger that exists byyour sin, do you? Your sin will hurt you. It can bring much misery to you, butyou will not recognise you are being hurt through sin. Once you become aChristian, however, the spotlight is turned on. You are now conscious of yoursin and the headlights that bring the sin to light is the law. Now you panicbecause you see great danger, for your sin can condemn you. Where will you runto escape the danger? Will you run to a law of righteousness or to Jesus? Itwouldn’t be very sensible to run anywhere other than to safety, would it? Yousee, the law makes you conscious of your sin, but the law cannot save you fromsin; only Jesus can. Paul states in Romans 3:20, “Therefore no one
willbe declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law [striving to obeythe law]; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.” (NIV)
Now if you run to a law of righteousness,you have rejected Jesus as your Saviour, haven’t you? You are now your ownSaviour from sin. Either you defeat it or you are condemned to hell. Yoursinful nature is going to relish this battle, for it is one it cannot lose. If yoursinful nature could lose it, there would have been no need for Jesus to die onthe cross, would there? Now though you may not consciously understand the passmark to attain Heaven under the law, you will have to set out in this battle tryingto achieve it, won’t you? For you will know that no sin is acceptable to God.You are now in a worse position than people were under the Old Covenant, forsacrifices for sin could be made then, but you are not under that covenant, areyou? There is only one sacrifice for sin under the New Covenant, but you haverejected it. You had a Saviour from sin for the briefest of moments. You didn’tbecome saved by obeying God’s laws, did you? You were saved because Jesus diedfor you, but now you must save yourself from sin or you are condemned.
Everything has changed, however. The sinfulnature is not now carrying on in the dark doing what it wants to do. It hasbeen brought into the light and exposed. Before it stands a law ofrighteousness, which gives your sinful nature power over you. For it can onlycondemn you through the penalty for sin attached to God’s laws, can’t it? Thatis where its true power over you lies. If you live under a law of righteousness,the penalty for sin remains. If you live under grace, the penalty of sin hasbeen removed. Now Paul believed sin will not be your master, for you are notunder law but under grace. So he is really saying that sin will not be yourmaster, for you are not under the penalty attached to the law if you break it.

Hey Mate, I have a lot more issues with the last two than the first.

I think personally there are a few leaps in thought.

for instance you said "No matter how much bornagain people want to obey, however, they never will perfectly obey the wholelaw of God. If anyone could have done that, there would have been no need forJesus to die for our sins, for then we could have attained Heaven under thelaw."

The problem is that God said to the Jews:

Deu 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deu 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deu 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

God made it clear that it could be kept, notice he says it is in thy heart. this is because this same chapter says God will do it:

Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

So God put it in their hearts.

So either they could actually keep it or God is a liar.

Deu 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
Deu 30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

God says he has set before them life and death, if they could not obey then God has not only lied to them but condemned them to death without hope.

These scriptures clearly set fourth That God would change their hearts and that they could indeed obey all that was given.

SO then why did they fail?

Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that were disobedient?
Heb 3:19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.

It was not because they could not obey it was because they did not have faith as it is written:

Deu_32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

Israel did not fail because it was impossible, though it was impossible for them to do in their strength, They failed because they had no faith in Gods promises to preform it in them.

The new covenant is the same only with better promises, So If they could do it if they took hold of Gods promises then, it stands to reason that We who have the better promises are not just as able but even more able than they.

I like the stuff about being free from sin and agree, however it seems you don't believe in true freedom from sin.

On one had you speak much of our freedom from slavery yet on the other you say we will not be free in this life.

you quoted a verse:

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Notice Jesus says if you sin/break the law, then you are a slave to sin.

SO breaking the law is evidence that you are a slave. So to sin is not free in Christ bu still a slave. no one can serve two masters.

I know you don't want to talk about this subject and that is fine, but I am just letting you know the issue I have with the last two in particular.

IN Christ I can do all things and nothing is impossible for God.

I can do nothing without Jesus not one little thing. and JEsus said that in John 15:5.

So then any failure to be totally free is not me but Christ, I do not believe Christ fails.

But I will not any more talk on this because I know you would like to agree to disagree. what I will do though is en devour to explain how from the bible one can overcome sin entirely through Christ. In fact I will do it on a new thread.

 

[gotime]

I have spoken with the evident word of God...not what I think it should say but what it clearly says...what part of the scripture do you disagree with?


Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Seen as you see fit not to explain your view clearly, I can only assume that from the script you posted, that the Jew had no hope in the first place and God was just playing with them. That God gave them a law that you think they could not obey in which God told them to obey and said they could do it.

SO thus it seems to me you make God a liar.

 

[gotime]

Seen as you see fit not to explain your view clearly, I can only assume that from the script you posted, that the Jew had no hope in the first place and God was just playing with them. That God gave them a law that you think they could not obey in which God told them to obey and said they could do it.

SO thus it seems to me you make God a liar.

Or are you suggesting that the Jew was saved in the same way we are under the Old Covenant?

 

[Laodicea]

In the Law, yes. There is no hope in the Law, just condemnation.

But in Christ? In Him there is hope where none other exists.

*Romans 7:12 KJV*
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.


The Bible says the law is good, if people see the law as only condemnation they are not seeing it according to what the Bible says about the law. Why would God do away with something good? According to Romans 7 the problem is not with the law but, with us. So the law does not need to be changed we do.

 

[Mitspa]

*Romans 7:12 KJV*
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.


The Bible says the law is good, if people see the law as only condemnation they are not seeing it according to what the Bible says about the law. Why would God do away with something good? According to Romans 7 the problem is not with the law but, with us. So the law does not need to be changed we do.

Right ...that's why we serve God by the Spirit and not by the "letter" Love not legalism !

 

[Mitspa]

Seen as you see fit not to explain your view clearly, I can only assume that from the script you posted, that the Jew had no hope in the first place and God was just playing with them. That God gave them a law that you think they could not obey in which God told them to obey and said they could do it.

SO thus it seems to me you make God a liar.

I don't go in circles of carnal logic...deal with the evident word of God...not what you "think" it should say! Become a fool and God will make you wise....all the law is fulfilled in love, not legalism.....we serve God in Spirit not in the "letter" ..

Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Must a born again Christian read the literal words of the Ten Commandments in order to know it is wrong in God's sight for them to commit adultery, steal, murder, covet etc

Hello michael56
I would say that a born again christian would want to know the history of the old and new testaments and how the once concealed old testament has been revealed in the new testament.

 

[gotime]

I don't go in circles of carnal logic...deal with the evident word of God...not what you "think" it should say! Become a fool and God will make you wise....all the law is fulfilled in love, not legalism.....we serve God in Spirit not in the "letter" ..

Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

I will stop talking to you then, I find you are being most unreasonable. no offence but I have shown you that your answer does not make it clear to me your position and you refuse to help me out there. So we are done because I simply don't get your answer and you clearly do not care enough to help out.

by the way my questions were born of the word not carnal logic.

 

[Mitspa]

I will stop talking to you then, I find you are being most unreasonable. no offence but I have shown you that your answer does not make it clear to me your position and you refuse to help me out there. So we are done because I simply don't get your answer and you clearly do not care enough to help out.

by the way my questions were born of the word not carnal logic.

Yea I don't move from the scriptures and try to make them say what I think they should say...I don't change Gods Word it changes me.. and if your used to folks using mans logic to deny what the Word of God clearly says ...you will not like discussing the truth with me


Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Ro 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

 

[gotime]

No offence Guys, but some of the things you are saying make God out to be a childish tyrant who told the Jews to obey something that they could not then lied and said they could and then when they didn't punished them.

 

[Mitspa]

Read the bible....

Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Do you think being brought to Christ is bad?