Must a Christian read the Ten Commandments to Know How God wants them to live?

[kennethcadwell]

No a believer in Christ cannot break the law of Moses. because they are not under the law....If a believer lies or steals they are breaking the law of Christ to love...

Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

You can call it whatever you like, rather you want to call it the law of Moses, Mosaic laws, law of Christ to love......
It all comes from God and is His moral laws, so if you sin as a believer then you are breaking His moral laws. Even Jesus said His words were not His own, but come from the Father who sent Him. This is why He said if you deny Him and His teachings then you have denied the Father. Paul says for others to imitate him for he through Christ has put on the Spirit to imitate how Jesus walked.

You still misunderstand scripture as you have to take scripture to interpret scripture, and 1 John 3:8 is not saying you will not sin for that would contradict what he said earlier in 1 John 1:8-10. John is saying those who continuously deliberately sin by transgressing the law is of the devil. For a true born again believer will repent/confess of the sin when they commit a sin, and will work by the Holy Spirit to refrain from sinning in an everyday way of life.

So once again have you sinned within the past year ? If you say you have not the scripture says you are a liar.
You like to point out to others they can't keep the 10 commandments, well that means you believe you can not either which makes you a sinner. For if you can not keep the 10 moral commands of God you are transgressing the law.
Walking in the law of Christ that you call it would not transgress these commands of God. Yet you say nobody can keep them, so you either are double minded or have not put your full faith in the Holy Spirits guidance. Else wise you would not be teaching this way.

 

[Mitspa]

Indeed I do. we actually quoted bible for our position remember?

DO you understand the scriptures you hare quoting?

Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Paul makes it clear that sin is breaking the law same a John etc. so then Paul says:

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

So knowing the biblical definition of sin this is saying Shall we break the law because we are not under it but under Grace? God forbid he says. So if you are not breaking it/sin what are you doing?

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Notice the words carefully. "being dead wherein we were held" what were we held in?

Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were through the law, wrought in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Answer sin which is breaking the law. how did that happen?

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also were made dead to the law through the body of Christ; that ye should be joined to another, even to him who was raised from the dead, that we might bring forth fruit unto God.

Notice the whole context is on us dying not the law but us. the problem was our sin/breaking the law. but through the Spirit we have died to sin and thus we are delivered from the law because the law only condemns sinners.

Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Rom 10:5 For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby.

this is a quote from the law of sacrifices and priesthood in Leviticus.

The blood of animals could not make us righteous but the blood of Jesus does.

Simple​

So whats your point? Its clear that the believer is not under the law of moses...namely the Ten Commandments! Should we sin because we are not under the law? No ...but a real believer is not under the written code of the law...they are under the law of the Spirit...faith and love

 

[gotime]

So whats your point? Its clear that the believer is not under the law of moses...namely the Ten Commandments! Should we sin because we are not under the law? No ...but a real believer is not under the written code of the law...they are under the law of the Spirit...faith and love

so are you saying that we are allowed to break the 10 commandments now because we are not under them?

 

[Mitspa]

You can call it whatever you like, rather you want to call it the law of Moses, Mosaic laws, law of Christ to love......
It all comes from God and is His moral laws, so if you sin as a believer then you are breaking His moral laws. Even Jesus said His words were not His own, but come from the Father who sent Him. This is why He said if you deny Him and His teachings then you have denied the Father. Paul says for others to imitate him for he through Christ has put on the Spirit to imitate how Jesus walked.

You still misunderstand scripture as you have to take scripture to interpret scripture, and 1 John 3:8 is not saying you will not sin for that would contradict what he said earlier in 1 John 1:8-10. John is saying those who continuously deliberately sin by transgressing the law is of the devil. For a true born again believer will repent/confess of the sin when they commit a sin, and will work by the Holy Spirit to refrain from sinning in an everyday way of life.

So once again have you sinned within the past year ? If you say you have not the scripture says you are a liar.
You like to point out to others they can't keep the 10 commandments, well that means you believe you can not either which makes you a sinner. For if you can not keep the 10 moral commands of God you are transgressing the law.
Walking in the law of Christ that you call it would not transgress these commands of God. Yet you say nobody can keep them, so you either are double minded or have not put your full faith in the Holy Spirits guidance. Else wise you would not be teaching this way.

No Im calling it what the bible calls it and there is a huge difference between faith and the law...the law is not of faith.

and the written code was only a shadow/ type of the Spirit...we don't serve the shadow or the type...

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The letter kills but the Spirit gives life.

 

[michael56]

Yous 'testified' earlier, yous under no 'law'. Now yous talk there is 'law'. What is going on?

Christ is the end of the law UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS to everyone who believeth Rom 10:4

You are not under a law of righteousness, but the law God requires you to keep has not disappeared. The penalty for sin was removed from the Christian, not the good and Holy law of God he desires you to keep

 

[gotime]

sin is not of faith and sin is breaking the law.

There is no way around this. sin is breaking the law. eg stealing is sin and the law says don't steal. so under the law or not you steal you sin and the wages of sin is death.

SO then faith uphold the law:

Rom 3:31 Do we then make the law of none effect through faith? God forbid: nay, we establish the law.

 

[Mitspa]

No Im calling it what the bible calls it and there is a huge difference between faith and the law...the law is not of faith.

and the written code was only a shadow/ type of the Spirit...we don't serve the shadow or the type...

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The letter kills but the Spirit gives life.

Legalism is death...its the flesh trying to earn life!

 

[Mitspa]

so are you saying that we are allowed to break the 10 commandments now because we are not under them?

Did I say that? Im teaching true obedience by the spirit, not the letter.

But if your under the law, your already breaking the commandments...your the one teaching sin, not me!

 

[Mitspa]

sin is not of faith and sin is breaking the law.

There is no way around this. sin is breaking the law. eg stealing is sin and the law says don't steal. so under the law or not you steal you sin and the wages of sin is death.

SO then faith uphold the law:

Rom 3:31 Do we then make the law of none effect through faith? God forbid: nay, we establish the law.

A believer in Christ cannot break the law of Moses...because they are not under the law! But the law is not of faith and the law is the strength of sin...so its you that is in sin...not me!

We establish the law for its purpose, to make all guilty before God...not to water it down and pretend to keep it...

 

[gotime]

Did I say that? Im teaching true obedience by the spirit, not the letter.

But if your under the law, your already breaking the commandments...your the one teaching sin, not me!

We are teaching true obedience by the spirit also.

if you steal then you have not the spirit. simple really.

 

[gotime]

A believer in Christ cannot break the law of Moses...because they are not under the law! But the law is not of faith and the law is the strength of sin...so its you that is in sin...not me!

not so, He who sins is a slave to sin.

 

[kennethcadwell]

No Im calling it what the bible calls it and there is a huge difference between faith and the law...the law is not of faith.

and the written code was only a shadow/ type of the Spirit...we don't serve the shadow or the type...

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The letter kills but the Spirit gives life.

The only difference in the mosaic law and God's moral laws is this;

1) Gods grace given to us by our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ

2) The mosaic laws consist of 613 written ordinances, and God's moral laws/commandments have no 613 attached ordinances.

3) The punishment for breaking the Mosaic ordinance of the 10 commandments was death penalty, the punishment for deliberately breaking the 10 moral commandments written in our heart and mind is the second death if not repented of.

4) The 10 commandments apart from the Mosaic law ordinances become moral laws of God to be walked in life.

5) The law of Christ of faith and love upholds the moral law of God.

 

[Mitspa]

We are teaching true obedience by the spirit also.

if you steal then you have not the spirit. simple really.

No your teaching legalism by the letter... read the bible!


Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

If your under the law your already guilty, because you don't keep the law! Your not obedient ...I am

 

[Mitspa]

The only difference in the mosaic law and God's moral laws is this;

1) Gods grace given to us by our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ

2) The mosaic laws consist of 613 written ordinances, and God's moral laws/commandments have no 613 attached ordinances.

3) The punishment for breaking the Mosaic ordinance of the 10 commandments was death penalty, the punishment for deliberately breaking the 10 moral commandments written in our heart and mind is the second death if not repented of.

4) The 10 commandments apart from the Mosaic law ordinances become moral laws of God to be walked in life.

5) The law of Christ of faith and love upholds the moral law of God.

What are you calling Gods moral law? The ten commandments?

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

 

[kennethcadwell]

not so, He who sins is a slave to sin.

Paul in Romans 6:16 is talking to believers

James in James 1:14-16 is talking to believers

Both verses by both Apostles say that a believer can still sin and if they give into those sins and let them control them it brings forth death and not eternal life............

 

[Mitspa]

The law is one complete whole...its not broken into parts...moral and ceremonial ...that's a lie! Its every jot and title...all things written in the book of the law...

you guys think you uphold the law when you break it into parts so you can pretend to keep it? No God hates that!

 

[michael56]

Michael56 you said "Here is the problem the sda church cannot face, for to them, they are defined according to worshipping on a Saturday. Keeping Saturday Sabbath is not a law that has been written on my mind or placed on my heart. If it was I MUST be convicted I am sinning by7 not observing it, there is no way round that. Therefore, do you believe the Holy Spirit writes different laws on different Gentiles hearts at the point of conversion? Or do you believe only those who observe Saturday Sabbath are saved? "

I Don't agree here, I don't believe that having the law on our hearts and minds is a literal writing of the law so that we suddenly are convicted of right and wrong. If that were the case then we would not need scripture any longer after conversion we would simply know what is right and wrong.

I will just address this point, as your post is long and to address all the points individually would be very time consuming. You are wrong gotime, I know you are wrong from my own life, I am not talking ''simple theology here but from lifes experience.
When I responded to an altar call I had not read that to look at a woman with lust in my eye was sin, I only knew ''Thou shalt not commit adultery'' Bit if I looked at a woman with lust in my eye, I knew in my heart and mind I had sinned. I did not know what ''Thou shalt not covet'' entailed, but once I had become a Christian the full truth of that law was on my heart and mind. Everything changed the moment I became a Christian, it did not change once I had read the literal letter. I had been happy before I became a Christian, but I was not after. The burden of trying in effect to obey a law I had not literally read was huge, I could not do it. Once I had been alive before the law came to me, but once it did I died(I felt condemned) The commandment I believed would give me life(I would attain Heaven) if I obeyed it, instead brought death(condemnation) for I could not keep it. Sin used what was good and Holy to arouse all manner of concupiscence in me. I became a worse sinner.
I used to look back on my life before I made that decision to become a Christian, I had been happy then, just a normal child, but not afterwards. Because I only had half a covenant, the law God required me to keep had been written on my mind and placed on my heart, but I did not know my sins and lawless deeds would be remembered no more. The law reveals right and wrong, and it makes you conscious of your sin before God, that happened to me from the night I became a Christian. As it would to anyone who has had the law placed on their heart and written on their mind
I don't mean this unkindly, I am just being honest, but I cannot understand people saying they have to read the literal letter of the Ten Commandments to know how God wants them to live, I don't know of such a Christianity, it is not the Christianity I know(I am not saying I believe a person cannot be a Christian if they have that view)
Nor do I have to think to myself. ''I must obey the literal law'' to attain Heaven. The law God requires me to keep is within me, it always has been since the night I got saved, my conscience at sin, proves that to be the case

 

[kennethcadwell]

What are you calling Gods moral law? The ten commandments?

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Yes I know those passages, and what they mean.
We are delivered from the law through Christ because the law showed us our sins and held us in check to its ordinances to be put to death and punished for breaking them. Being under grace we are no longer held under the law to those sacrifices or punishments, as the Lord became our sacrifice and took our punishment.
Now though if we trample the blood of Christ underfoot and continue to transgress His commands, a.k.a continue willfully sinning their no longer remains a sacrifice for that sin, but will face judgment and the lake of fire.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The law is one complete whole...its not broken into parts...moral and ceremonial ...that's a lie! Its every jot and title...all things written in the book of the law...

you guys think you uphold the law when you break it into parts so you can pretend to keep it? No God hates that!

And that is why you do not understand the law, as you been taught wrong that there is not different parts.

1. The Mosaic Law is divided into three parts.
   1. Codex I - the moral code: the decalogue or ten commandments.
   2. Codex II - the ceremonial code: A complete and elaborate system of Christology and soteriology as portrayed via the tabernacle, Levitical priesthood, sabbaths, offerings, sacrifices, and feasts.
   3. Codex III - the social code: diet, hygiene, quarantine, taxation, laws of evidence, crime, land conservation, slavery, the poor, the military, and the economy.

 

[Mitspa]

Yes I know those passages, and what they mean.
We are delivered from the law through Christ because the law showed us our sins and held us in check to its ordinances to be put to death and punished for breaking them. Being under grace we are no longer held under the law to those sacrifices or punishments, as the Lord became our sacrifice and took our punishment.
Now though if we trample the blood of Christ underfoot and continue to transgress His commands, a.k.a continue willfully sinning their no longer remains a sacrifice for that sin, but will face judgment and the lake of fire.

You keep His commandments by faith and love...legalism is not keeping anything! Its breaking both the law of Moses and the law of Christ...its lawlessness ....


You cannot serve God by the written code of the law...that is what Paul is saying...he is also saying you must serve God in the spirit by the obedience of faith and love.