Must a Christian read the Ten Commandments to Know How God wants them to live?

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M

Mitspa

Guest
#121
#121
MyLighthouse said:
No, our conscience can tell us. Yet it is helpful to look in the mirror (the 10 Commandments), sometimes we have stuff on our face that needs cleaned up(sin in our lives that we need to repent of). Spiritual Check ups are a good thing, we don't want to end up like Samson and wake up one day not knowing if God had left us! It's important that God does it though. Also it helps one to humble themselves before God in prayer and worship :D
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There is nothing wrong with studying the law and seeing how its fulfilled by the Spirit of God in us ...its a good witness to the work of Christ and His love.... But at some point folks should get past thou shalt not steal and learn to love and give ...at some point believers should mature past carnal rules and walk in the Spirit by faith.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#122
Mar 3, 2011
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#122
Mitspa said:
Whatsoever is not of faith is sin...the law is not of faith.
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Context please, what does Paul mean when he says that?

Notice:

Gal 3:11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith;

point we are not justified by law but by faith. Speaking of cause.

Gal 3:12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them.

so the law is not of faith how? He is clearly speaking about works of the law which is the context of the whole chapter.


as seen here:

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn from you. Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

So the problem is faith vs works for salvation.

No one here is saying we are saved by works of the law. but rather by faith in Christ the law is fulfilled in us as Paul also said:

Rom 3:27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith.
Rom 3:28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Rom 3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

Notice here the same topic is being spoken of by Paul, works vs faith and the topic is How we are justified not how we should live. But then notice what Paul says for people like yourself who suggest that because its by faith the we don't need the law any more.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make the law of none effect through faith? God forbid: nay, we establish the law.

Thanks Paul for making that clear.

works of the law do not justify and no one here is saying that, but rather keeping the law is fruit of Justification. Thus true salvation will result in keeping the law thus Paul could say this:

Rom 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
 
DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
#123
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
69
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#123
The_highwayman said:
Please stop soliciting your website, if you continue I will move to have you banned from the site...
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According to the Forum rules, you can post links to a site that is relevant to what is being discussed. Do you know who else has tried to get me Banned from teaching Truths on many message boards? Well it isn't God.

Do what you must do, But i have broke no rules of this board, as much as you wish i would.

^i^ Responding to post #43
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#124
#124
gotime said:
Context please, what does Paul mean when he says that?

Notice:

Gal 3:11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith;

point we are not justified by law but by faith. Speaking of cause.

Gal 3:12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them.

so the law is not of faith how? He is clearly speaking about works of the law which is the context of the whole chapter.


as seen here:

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn from you. Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

So the problem is faith vs works for salvation.

No one here is saying we are saved by works of the law. but rather by faith in Christ the law is fulfilled in us as Paul also said:

Rom 3:27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith.
Rom 3:28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Rom 3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

Notice here the same topic is being spoken of by Paul, works vs faith and the topic is How we are justified not how we should live. But then notice what Paul says for people like yourself who suggest that because its by faith the we don't need the law any more.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make the law of none effect through faith? God forbid: nay, we establish the law.

Thanks Paul for making that clear.

works of the law do not justify and no one here is saying that, but rather keeping the law is fruit of Justification. Thus true salvation will result in keeping the law thus Paul could say this:

Rom 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
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What? the law is not of faith...and those who seek to be justified by the law have fallen from grace.... and none of you keep the law of Moses...only those who teach love teach others to fulfill the law...those who teach legalism teach others to break the law!
 
G

gotime

Senior Member
#125
Mar 3, 2011
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#125
Again the problem here is you lack of knowledge of the law. you think you can just read the new testament and understand?

think again, have you not noticed that all the arguments of Jesus and the apostles are taken from the Old testament?

You clearly display that you have not been tutored, you seem like a child that has come to an exam without first going to school to be ready.

The entire new covenant can be taught from the Old Testament.

You teach that the law that God spoke with His own mouth ad wrote with His own finger is done away with. You teach that though the law is good and holy and Just that we should not keep it.
 
DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
#126
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
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#126
The_highwayman said:
I have reported this post as you are soliciting a private website.
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That is funny, i am not trying to sell, or promote any website, only giving a link to a website that discusses the topic at hand, which is in compliance to the Rules, have you read the Rules? You should. Before going and making threats to get someone banned from the site.
And tell me, would Jesus try to get someone banned from a message board? wouldn't Jesus LOVE instead of banning? i have done no wrong to you or to this message board. God is my witness.

^i^ Responding to post#44
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#127
#127
gotime said:
Again the problem here is you lack of knowledge of the law. you think you can just read the new testament and understand?

think again, have you not noticed that all the arguments of Jesus and the apostles are taken from the Old testament?

You clearly display that you have not been tutored, you seem like a child that has come to an exam without first going to school to be ready.

The entire new covenant can be taught from the Old Testament.

You teach that the law that God spoke with His own mouth ad wrote with His own finger is done away with. You teach that though the law is good and holy and Just that we should not keep it.
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Well it don't matter what you think of me...its matters what the bible clearly teaches!

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. 7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#128
Mar 3, 2011
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#128
Mitspa said:
What? the law is not of faith...and those who seek to be justified by the law have fallen from grace.... and none of you keep the law of Moses...only those who teach love teach others to fulfill the law...those who teach legalism teach others to break the law!
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ok continue to ignore scripture then, we are done then. I don't want to debate opinions.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#129
#129
gotime said:
ok continue to ignore scripture then, we are done then. I don't want to debate opinions.
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Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
 
G

gotime

Senior Member
#130
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#130
Mitspa said:
Well it don't matter what you think of me...its matters what the bible clearly teaches!

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. 7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
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You claim to go by scripture but this is not so. how do I know.

We address scripture you use, you do not address scripture we use.
We use the old testament with the new, you just use the new.

you just pick and chose and ignore the rest. Don't bother saying you don't because the proof is throughout the posts, when we address scripture you use you ignore it and never address scripture we use.

by the way constantly posting scripture you "think" goes against us is not addressing the scripture we use. at best you make it look like the bible contradicts itself.

Not trying to be nasty here, you seem to be a fine person and I respect that, but just sharing my observations.
 
DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
#131
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
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#131
DiscipleDave said : Please read this article Obey the Old Testament? which shows many relevant verses which prove we are not under the 10 commandments.
Please pay attention to what it says about the 10 commandments

Exodus 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Are we under this covenant or as Christians are we under a NEW covenant? The ten commandments is the OLD covenant given to the Israelites to follow and obey.
Know you not that i could keep the 10 commandments perfectly and still go to Hell? i could keep the 10 commandments perfectly and hate my brother, and because of that hate, will not enter into Heaven. i could keep the 10 commandments perfectly and not forgive another, and because i do not forgive another, will not enter into Heaven.
Know you not the 10 Commandments is all about Do's and Don'ts. The entire OLD covenant is about Do's and Don'ts. Laws, obey them or else. The new covenant is a heart issue, not about Do's and Don'ts.
Under the Old Covenant (10 commandments) When a person stole from another person, they committed sin, because there is a commandment that says "Thou shalt not steal"
Under the New Covenant (Love one another) When a person stole from another person, they committed sin, because they failed to love the person they stole from. ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the commandment Thou shalt not steal, it is because they failed to love is why they sinned, NOT because they broke one of the 10 commandments that was given to the Israelites to follow under the Old Covenant.
Anyone who teaches you must keep the Ten Commandments, does not know the Truth of what the New Covenant is all about. Jesus never once told a Christian to keep the Ten commandments, Not one Apostle ever taught us Christians to keep the 10 commandments. Isn't that strange, that people today are so adamant about teaching people to keep the 10 commandments, yet Jesus nor any Apostle ever taught such a thing. That is strange indeed. Because those who teach such things, teach a false doctrine that Jesus nor any Apostle ever taught. Do not listen to them, they do not know the Truth.
Again click HERE to read the proof we do NOT have to obey the 10 commandments.
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keeth said:
Your argument is nothing new at all, and false at that. Even during the Old covenant, love was a prerequisite for keeping the commandments of God. Your assertion above that one can keep the commandments void of the motivation of love is a lie. You simply do not know what it means to keep the commandments of God. Love for God alone, and love for our neighbor have always been the only true and acceptable motivations for keeping any of the commandments of God. Keeping them in order to be saved is a purely selfish motive, which defeats their entire purpose and divinely intended effect. Are you accusing God of establishing legalism, and putting a system in place for that end to continue century after century after century? No sir, you are mistaken and guilty of maligning the character of God for insinuating the same.
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You you misunderstand what i have said. i never said that love was not a prerequisite for keeping the commandments of God. i said i could keep the 10 commandments perfectly, and NOT love someone and go to Hell. my point is there is a teaching today that teaches all a person has to do is obey the 10 commandments, AND THAT IS IT. Nothing more, than to obey the 10 commandments. That is why i said i could keep the 10 commandments perfectly and still not go to Heaven. Which is a True statement. If i kept all 10 commandments perfectly, that is i do not break even one of them, does not make me righteous and Heaven bound. Because Jesus and His Apostles taught us about LOVING ONE ANOTHER, forgiving one another, loving your enemies, which the 10 commandments does not do. my point is that we are not obligated to obey, follow, adhere, keep the 10 commandments, which as i have shown above is of the OLD COVENANT. We are under a New Covenant, that is to believe on Jesus, and to LOVE ONE ANOTHER. The whole point of what i said above is for those who believe all one has to do is obey the 10 commandments and they are Heaven bound. That is why i said, i could keep the 10 commandment perfectly and still not go to Heaven, because i failed to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, or failed to forgive another, both of which according to the new covenant will prevent a person from entering into the Kingdom of Heaven, both of which the 10 commandments does not address. Do you now understand?

^i^ Responding to post#52
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#132
Mar 3, 2011
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88
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#132
Let me suggest something here that you don't have to reply to but think about it.

you have sins in your life that you can't seem to break free of.

you try because you love Jesus and sometimes you succeed for a time, but then you find yourself back in the same sin later on for some reason or another.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#133
#133
gotime said:
You claim to go by scripture but this is not so. how do I know.

We address scripture you use, you do not address scripture we use.
We use the old testament with the new, you just use the new.

you just pick and chose and ignore the rest. Don't bother saying you don't because the proof is throughout the posts, when we address scripture you use you ignore it and never address scripture we use.

by the way constantly posting scripture you "think" goes against us is not addressing the scripture we use. at best you make it look like the bible contradicts itself.

Not trying to be nasty here, you seem to be a fine person and I respect that, but just sharing my observations.
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You have not addressed scripture...you have tried to piece together a few scriptures out of context to promote a evident lie...

The fact is that the New Testament makes it absolute and clear that the believer in Christ is set free from the law of Moses...all of it and all that the law demanded is fulfilled in one word...love. And that being the commandment of Christ.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#134
Mar 3, 2011
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#134
Mitspa said:
You have not addressed scripture...you have tried to piece together a few scriptures out of context to promote a evident lie...

The fact is that the New Testament makes it absolute and clear that the believer in Christ is set free from the law of Moses...all of it and all that the law demanded is fulfilled in one word...love. And that being the commandment of Christ.
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so are you set free from putting God first etc?

see the folly in your statement?
 
G

gotime

Senior Member
#135
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
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#135
gotime said:
so are you set free from putting God first etc?

see the folly in your statement?
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you are set free from loving your neighbour and loving God because that is the law of Moses.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#136
#136
gotime said:
Let me suggest something here that you don't have to reply to but think about it.

you have sins in your life that you can't seem to break free of.

you try because you love Jesus and sometimes you succeed for a time, but then you find yourself back in the same sin later on for some reason or another.
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The strength of sin is the law.... the power over sin is the grace of God... That's the gospel!

Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

This I know...legalist are bound in sin and try to hide it behind white religious paint and false religious mask.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#137
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
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#137
you are not free my friend, your view keeps you a slave to sin.

That is why you do not have the victory in Christ that you would like.

That is why you keep falling into the same sins again and again.
 
G

gotime

Senior Member
#138
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
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#138
Mitspa said:
The strength of sin is the law.... the power over sin is the grace of God... That's the gospel!

Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

This I know...legalist are bound in sin and try to hide it behind white religious paint and false religious mask.
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indeed you are right about legalists. good thing we don't go there then hey.
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#139
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
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#139
DiscipleDave said:
....And tell me, would Jesus try to get someone banned from a message board? ....
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not in regard to anything you're referring to in this post as far as i know,
but
otherwise, if the site was subject to his authority, yes, there are several he would ban. (he never tried to do something, though. he would just do it.)
 
DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
#140
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
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#140
Mitspa said:
2Co 3:6 ¶ Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Legalism is not obedience ...faith working by love is!
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True.

To all that is reading this, When you stand before God on Judgement Day, the 10 commandments will not even be brought up. If you stole something from someone, Jesus is not going to bring up the "Thou shalt not steal" commandment. Jesus is going to ask you why you failed to love the one you stole from. When Jesus said "a NEW commandment i give unto you" He then made ALL OTHERS, OLD. When we stand before God on Judgment Day, it is not commandments that will brought up, but you either LOVING ONE ANOTHER, or failing to LOVE ONE ANOTHER that is going to be judged. Under the Old Covenant it was about obeying the law, obeying the 10 commandments, Do's and Don't. under the new Covenant it is all about LOVING ONE ANOTHER, it is a heart issue now, not an obedience issue, its a HEART issue, NOT a LAW issue. Those who teach you must keep the 10 commandments, do not understand the new covenant with Jesus Christ at all, its all about the LOVE, not the LAW, they do error and know not the Truth.

^i^ Responding to post #56
 
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