Must all dispensationalists believe in cessation of miracles?

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Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
1,155
189
63
#61
Hi

Im not one of these Paul's epistles only people, but I know plenty, and in fact I consider some of the best precher i've ever heard dispensationalists, yet I disagree!


I would classify it like this: You got the KJV-Only dispensationalists and the ishellreal.com dispies and hyper-dispies <- This group is USUALLY cessationists.
Then you got the charismatic/pentecostal/non-denominational kind of dispensationalists <- these groups are USUALLY continuationists.

I would also like to add that, many pentecostal dispies that I know would never dismiss something from James or hebrews or the gospels as "to the jews" only.

I might as well just quickly refute this "Paul's epistles only" idea: Here we got Paul talking to GENTILES and telling them to consent to the words of our Lord(That would be Jesus):

1Tim 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
I see about the same thing over here
 

Guojing

Active member
Jan 12, 2019
310
83
28
#62
I do not see where the scriptures teach that the stoning of Stephen was a crisis moment in Israel, in part, rejecting the Gospel and getting to the state described in Romans 11. It may have been, but I do not see where the Bible makes this point.
Do you view the book of Acts as a "transition" book from the Gospel of the Kingdom for Jews, to the Gospel of Grace for Jews AND Gentiles?

There are many people who view Acts instead as a "model of what they want the Church to be".
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
4,240
196
63
#63
Do you view the book of Acts as a "transition" book from the Gospel of the Kingdom for Jews, to the Gospel of Grace for Jews AND Gentiles?

There are many people who view Acts instead as a "model of what they want the Church to be".
I would not say that is how I see it at all.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
4,240
196
63
#65
How do you interpret the book of acts then?
I see Acts as an account of the acts of the early apostles who lived lives worthy of emulation. In Acts 15 we see that Peter, like Paul in the epistles, believed Jews were saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. The book also show Paul baptizing Gentiles.

I do not see the gospel changing in the book and I think would anathemize that based on Galatians 1.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
26,404
795
113
#66
Seems there are quite a number here who believe in "rightfully dividing the word of truth". I am a "mid-dispensationalist", meaning that I believed the dispensation of grace began only with the salvation of the Apostle Paul in mid Acts, the mystery program, the church where Jews and Gentiles are equal, began only then at Acts chapter 9.

One thing I am still trying to decide is whether miracle signs of healing have indeed ceased at this age of the church. It appears that many dispensationalists, such as C R Stam, Les Feldick, and the owner of the blog doctrine.org, all share the view that there is no more miracles of healing for today.

Is that necessarily the case? I am in a church where apparently, there are people who testify about miracles of healing. We were also taught that, in Paul's epistles, the word save, saved, or salvation, comes from the greek word "Sozo", which also includes health.

So my question is, can you be a dispensationalist and yet still believe that miracles of healing are for us today? What do the rest think?
I was into MAD at one time. Anyhow I am 'dispensational' but believe the gifts are today except the Offices of Prophets and Apostles (sorry NAR fans). Dispensational distinctives are a literal approach to Scripture and a distinction between Israel and the Church. From a literal approach I do not see the cessation of gifts until Christ's return. Their argument is built on raw logic without Scripture. As far as cessation of the Offices of Apotles and Prophets! I would appeal to...
Hebrews 1:1-2 NKJV
[1] God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, [2] has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

Acts 1:21-22 NKJV
[21] "Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, [22] beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."

These self appointed Prophets and falsely appointed Apostles are not to be heeded.
 

Guojing

Active member
Jan 12, 2019
310
83
28
#67
I see Acts as an account of the acts of the early apostles who lived lives worthy of emulation. In Acts 15 we see that Peter, like Paul in the epistles, believed Jews were saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. The book also show Paul baptizing Gentiles.

I do not see the gospel changing in the book and I think would anathemize that based on Galatians 1.
When u used the term worthy of emulation, I can see that u view the early acts church as a model to follow. Yeah many people think like that.

For me, acts is a story of how the Jews rejected their messiah, and how we gentiles are now included in the good news. The book of romans, esp chapters 9-11 made more sense from this perspective.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
1,155
189
63
#68
I was into MAD at one time. Anyhow I am 'dispensational' but believe the gifts are today except the Offices of Prophets and Apostles (sorry NAR fans). Dispensational distinctives are a literal approach to Scripture and a distinction between Israel and the Church. From a literal approach I do not see the cessation of gifts until Christ's return. Their argument is built on raw logic without Scripture. As far as cessation of the Offices of Apotles and Prophets! I would appeal to...
Hebrews 1:1-2 NKJV
[1] God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, [2] has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

Acts 1:21-22 NKJV
[21] "Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, [22] beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."

These self appointed Prophets and falsely appointed Apostles are not to be heeded.
The prophetic or all gifts are for anyone baptised in the Holy Spirit.
Most of the visions and revelations I have experienced cannot be shared in an enviroment of mocking and put down.

I used to flow heavily in the gifts during the charismatic renewal and on into the 80's.
Not so much now as the church apostasy is a wet log.
Nar is to me an attempt at reviving that once blazing fire.
In the mid 90's and on into the early mil there were pockets of God moving.
It started in argentina in the early 90s.

That ride was awesome. I saw many visions and dreams as well as my own fire restored.

The brownsville revival was probably the biggest in modern history.

Like any revival most are oblivious or end up attacking it.

It is just the way it is.

So most "do without"
Never reach a full potential or destiny.

All christian walk is/was designed around the "mantle",or anointing/baptism in the Holy Spirit.
God's pattern.
Outside that pattern we see what we see today.
Powerless christianity,where the gifts are not only undesirable but a point of put down and mockery.

A few phonies are a great incubator and become the yardstick for judging heavens equipping.
It really seems impossible that human apathy could so partner with the enemy of heaven to put believers into a deep sleep.
Is it a surprise there is no power in sleep and apathy?

Believers powerfully DEFENDING it????
Wow
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
996
70
28
#69
The Lord did not say only His apostles would be able to do the works that He did; the Lord said "He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also, and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."
So if you believe the Word, you will then not make up an excuse (a lie), for why we today do not see any of the miracles/works and greater works/miracles that Christ did.
If the Word be true, (and it is), then it is the Christian body today, (including from the first century AD) who is at fault, and do not believe on Christ.
This believing on Him is not the mental ascension of believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, but instead is believing in/on Christ's Way of love, truth, justice, humility, and other virtues.
These virtures are the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22-23, which I see many of us on this forum, including myself, often do not display in our postings, but instead display many of the works of the flesh, hatred and envyings described in Galatians 5:20-21.
If we don't change and believe on Christ; I then think it safe to say that some of us will not be good trees that bring forth good fruit (Matthew 7:16-20).

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Galatians 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.



Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
26,404
795
113
#70
The prophetic or all gifts are for anyone baptised in the Holy Spirit.
Most of the visions and revelations I have experienced cannot be shared in an enviroment of mocking and put down.

I used to flow heavily in the gifts during the charismatic renewal and on into the 80's.
Not so much now as the church apostasy is a wet log.
Nar is to me an attempt at reviving that once blazing fire.
In the mid 90's and on into the early mil there were pockets of God moving.
It started in argentina in the early 90s.

That ride was awesome. I saw many visions and dreams as well as my own fire restored.

The brownsville revival was probably the biggest in modern history.

Like any revival most are oblivious or end up attacking it.

It is just the way it is.

So most "do without"
Never reach a full potential or destiny.

All christian walk is/was designed around the "mantle",or anointing/baptism in the Holy Spirit.
God's pattern.
Outside that pattern we see what we see today.
Powerless christianity,where the gifts are not only undesirable but a point of put down and mockery.

A few phonies are a great incubator and become the yardstick for judging heavens equipping.
It really seems impossible that human apathy could so partner with the enemy of heaven to put believers into a deep sleep.
Is it a surprise there is no power in sleep and apathy?

Believers powerfully DEFENDING it????
Wow
Let me ask you, when the Apostles and Prophets of old spoke, "Thus saith the Lord" their words were revelatory, true and as good as Scripture. What so called 'prophets' or 'apostles' today speak inspired Scripture where the Church is bound to obey? Actually those phony NAR prophets would have been stoned back in the old testament times giving their false prophecy over Todd Bentley where within a month he left his wife for the Church secretary. Those are 100% phonies and give Christians a bad name.

2 Corinthians 11:13-14 NKJV
[13] For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. [14] And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.