Must Shortly Come To Pass
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Older biblical texts was translated to 616 and not 666, and Nero actually spelled his name two different ways. Nero, and Neron. Gematria still fits with both names.
Gematria is all over the bible, even in the NT. Roman numerals are also a form of gematria, because it was actually borrowed from the Hebrew method Which btw when you add all the numbers of roman numberals up with the exeption of 1000 which back then was two D's back to back which was 500, you get 666. "M" for 1000 did not come about until later.
Also, the greek word for MARK(as in mark of the beast) is "charagma". Which was a term used for a seal, etching or stamp. Charagma was also used for a head stamp on coins.
Roman emporers were known for having their head on coins with sayings or abbreviations of things like "Son of Divine" which is immortalizing the emperor which is obviously an antichrist. By being in posession of such a coin you were immortalizing a roman emperor which Christians are forbidden to do.
Why am I mentioning Nero on a roman coin? Well...
" that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name."
If a Christian couldn't use a Roman coin(mark) because it was idolizing an emperor, then they could not buy or sell could they?
Gematria is all over the bible, even in the NT. Roman numerals are also a form of gematria, because it was actually borrowed from the Hebrew method Which btw when you add all the numbers of roman numberals up with the exeption of 1000 which back then was two D's back to back which was 500, you get 666. "M" for 1000 did not come about until later.
Also, the greek word for MARK(as in mark of the beast) is "charagma". Which was a term used for a seal, etching or stamp. Charagma was also used for a head stamp on coins.
Roman emporers were known for having their head on coins with sayings or abbreviations of things like "Son of Divine" which is immortalizing the emperor which is obviously an antichrist. By being in posession of such a coin you were immortalizing a roman emperor which Christians are forbidden to do.
Why am I mentioning Nero on a roman coin? Well...
" that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name."
If a Christian couldn't use a Roman coin(mark) because it was idolizing an emperor, then they could not buy or sell could they?
while I agree the treaty does not have to mean peace (we are not shown what type it is just a treaty)
it can't be Christ, he did not commit the abomination which makes desolate. Not to mention. Christ mentioned this, when you see it run..
also, if it was Christ who did the stopping of sacrifice and offering by his death and resurrection, (even though it continued until ad 70) he would have to have made this treat with the many 3 1/2 years before his death. and then 3 1/2 years after his death would be the end of the 70 weeks.. There was no end of sin in isreal. they continued to rebel ass they had since they left egypt.. no difference.
Sacrifice never took away sin, even when it was started by arron.. so it never was a means to salvation anyway,
Just my opinion though
it can't be Christ, he did not commit the abomination which makes desolate. Not to mention. Christ mentioned this, when you see it run..
also, if it was Christ who did the stopping of sacrifice and offering by his death and resurrection, (even though it continued until ad 70) he would have to have made this treat with the many 3 1/2 years before his death. and then 3 1/2 years after his death would be the end of the 70 weeks.. There was no end of sin in isreal. they continued to rebel ass they had since they left egypt.. no difference.
Sacrifice never took away sin, even when it was started by arron.. so it never was a means to salvation anyway,
Just my opinion though
Are you sure about that?
As I'm more familiar with the Gospel of Matthew -The Church Fathers were unanimous that Matthew did write his own Gospel and some say that it became "The Gospel to the Hebrews" that was used later by Jewish Christians who rejected the other gospels. There is some historical evidence to support this claim.
Matthew also issued a written gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect. (Ireneus, 170 CE, Against Heresies 3:1)
Ματθαῖος μὲν οὖν Ἑβραΐδι διαλέκτῳ τὰ λόγια συνετάξατο, ἡρμήνευσεν δ᾿ αὐτὰ ὡς ἦν δυνατὸς ἕκαστος.
(So Matthew put together the sayings in the Hebrew dialect, and each person interpreted them as he was able)
(Papias, 150-170 CE, quoted by Eusebius, Eccl. Hist. 3:39)
The first is written according to Matthew, the same that was once a tax collector, but afterwards an emissary of Yeshua the Messiah, who having published it for the Jewish believers, wrote it in Hebrew. (Origen circa 210 CE, quoted by Eusebius, Eccl. Hist. 6:25)
He (Shaul) being a Hebrew wrote in Hebrew, that is, his own tongue and most fluently; while things which were eloquently written in Hebrew were more eloquently turned into Greek. (Jerome, 382 CE, 'Lives of Illustrious Men,' Book V)
In 393 Jerome composed the first Christian Who's Who ("Concerning Illustrious Men") to counter pagan claims that Christian intellectual tradition was inferior to that of the classics. His capsule biographies of the traditional authors of the gospels reveal his personal familiarity with eastern Christian traditions & his own decidedly Roman perspective on church history.
Concerning Matthew he wrote (chapter 3): Also, regarding the Aramaic Peshitta text (4 Gospels + Acts)
"With reference to....the originality of the Peshitta text, as the Patriarch and Head of the Holy Apostolic and Catholic Church of the East, we wish to state, that the Church of the East received the scriptures from the hands of the blessed Apostles themselves in the Aramaic original, the language spoken by our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and that the Peshitta is the text of the Church of the East which has come down from the Biblical times without any change or revision."
Mar Eshai Shimun
by Grace, Catholicos Patriarch of the East
April 5, 1957
As I'm more familiar with the Gospel of Matthew -The Church Fathers were unanimous that Matthew did write his own Gospel and some say that it became "The Gospel to the Hebrews" that was used later by Jewish Christians who rejected the other gospels. There is some historical evidence to support this claim.
Matthew also issued a written gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect. (Ireneus, 170 CE, Against Heresies 3:1)
Ματθαῖος μὲν οὖν Ἑβραΐδι διαλέκτῳ τὰ λόγια συνετάξατο, ἡρμήνευσεν δ᾿ αὐτὰ ὡς ἦν δυνατὸς ἕκαστος.
(So Matthew put together the sayings in the Hebrew dialect, and each person interpreted them as he was able)
(Papias, 150-170 CE, quoted by Eusebius, Eccl. Hist. 3:39)
The first is written according to Matthew, the same that was once a tax collector, but afterwards an emissary of Yeshua the Messiah, who having published it for the Jewish believers, wrote it in Hebrew. (Origen circa 210 CE, quoted by Eusebius, Eccl. Hist. 6:25)
He (Shaul) being a Hebrew wrote in Hebrew, that is, his own tongue and most fluently; while things which were eloquently written in Hebrew were more eloquently turned into Greek. (Jerome, 382 CE, 'Lives of Illustrious Men,' Book V)
In 393 Jerome composed the first Christian Who's Who ("Concerning Illustrious Men") to counter pagan claims that Christian intellectual tradition was inferior to that of the classics. His capsule biographies of the traditional authors of the gospels reveal his personal familiarity with eastern Christian traditions & his own decidedly Roman perspective on church history.
Matthew -- who was also (called) Levi -- was an apostle and former tax-collector. He first composed the gospel of Christ in Hebrew letters and words in Judea for those from the circumcision who had believed. Who later translated (his gospel) into Greek, is not quite certain. Moreover, the Hebrew itself is still held today in the library at Caesarea (Maritima), which the martyr Pamphilus carefully put together. I also was able to make a copy from the Nazarenes, who use this volume in Beroea, a city in Syria. In it, it is to be noted that whenever the evangelist made full use of testimonies from the ancient scriptures -- either on his own or from the Lord Savior -- he did not follow the authority of Seventy translators [i.e., the Greek Septuagint], but of the Hebrew. These are two (examples) of this: "Out of Egypt I have called my Son" (Matt 2:15) and "For he shall be called a Nazarene" (Matt 2:23).'
"With reference to....the originality of the Peshitta text, as the Patriarch and Head of the Holy Apostolic and Catholic Church of the East, we wish to state, that the Church of the East received the scriptures from the hands of the blessed Apostles themselves in the Aramaic original, the language spoken by our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and that the Peshitta is the text of the Church of the East which has come down from the Biblical times without any change or revision."
Mar Eshai Shimun
by Grace, Catholicos Patriarch of the East
April 5, 1957
Revelation 13.18, "Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast, FOR IT IS THE NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is Six hundred and sixty and six." - ASV
The Greek alpha-bet is also their number system. When transposing the number 666 into letters, it spells, "Nero." and this is something long before I became a believer in fulfillment.
The Greek alpha-bet is also their number system. When transposing the number 666 into letters, it spells, "Nero." and this is something long before I became a believer in fulfillment.
I don't know if anyone has said this yet but one interesting thing is(since people like to put literal dates on things)
Jesus died in 30AD
Jesus said in Matthew 24:34 This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
In the bible a generation is 40 years.
Gen 15:16 In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure."
40 is a very prominent number in the bible. The flood, Moses on the Mount and recieved the law, Jesus in the desert, and many more. This number is used as a period of testing or judgement.
70 is prominent too. 7 is perfection. 10 is law and restoration. 70 is human leadership and judgment. Moses appointed 70 elders (Exodus 24:1); The Sanhedrin was made up of 70 men. Jesus chose 70 disciples (Luke 10:1). Jesus told Peter to forgive 70 times 7.
Jesus died in 30AD. He says this generation(40 years) will not pass away...
30+40=70AD the destruction of Jerusalem.
Jesus died in 30AD
Jesus said in Matthew 24:34 This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
In the bible a generation is 40 years.
Gen 15:16 In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure."
40 is a very prominent number in the bible. The flood, Moses on the Mount and recieved the law, Jesus in the desert, and many more. This number is used as a period of testing or judgement.
70 is prominent too. 7 is perfection. 10 is law and restoration. 70 is human leadership and judgment. Moses appointed 70 elders (Exodus 24:1); The Sanhedrin was made up of 70 men. Jesus chose 70 disciples (Luke 10:1). Jesus told Peter to forgive 70 times 7.
Jesus died in 30AD. He says this generation(40 years) will not pass away...
30+40=70AD the destruction of Jerusalem.
I believe Revelation did already happen, but that doesn't mean we are immune to evil and persecution today. We are in a fallen world for sure. At least we have this book to know how to handle it and remain faithful.
History does repeat itself.
Ecc 1:9-11 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Is there anything of which one can say,
“Look! This is something new”?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]No one remembers the former generations,
and even those yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow them.
History does repeat itself.
Ecc 1:9-11 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Is there anything of which one can say,
“Look! This is something new”?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]No one remembers the former generations,
and even those yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow them.
E
No it did not. Rome did not stand in the Holy place and declare himself to be God, and place an abomination in the temple. Not only this, but he did not confirm a week covenant with anyone.
1. Our temple has always been Christ (since we are not jews) and it never was a temple in Jerusalem.
2. Yes, God prophesied that those things would happen, including AD 70 hundreds of years before they occured.
3. He also promised he would never forget them, even when they were scattered because of his sin, he would always remember his covenant with them.
4. God also prophesied he would still send a deliverer to them.. And at this time, ALL Isreal would finally repent (really for the first time in their history will there be more than just a few true believers)
you ignore half of the OT prophesies to believe the way you do. I see it no other way.
1. Our temple has always been Christ (since we are not jews) and it never was a temple in Jerusalem.
2. Yes, God prophesied that those things would happen, including AD 70 hundreds of years before they occured.
3. He also promised he would never forget them, even when they were scattered because of his sin, he would always remember his covenant with them.
4. God also prophesied he would still send a deliverer to them.. And at this time, ALL Isreal would finally repent (really for the first time in their history will there be more than just a few true believers)
you ignore half of the OT prophesies to believe the way you do. I see it no other way.
E
Yes. I agree 100 %
what people forget, was there were two others things the disciples ask.
The signs of the end of the age, and of his return..
Since Christ has not returned yet. the things Jesus spoke of would still be applicable today, because they were given to show (the end of the age and the time of your return.)
he returns at the end of the age, according to all prophetic prophesies concerning this time period.. thus it is not a stretch to understand,, the end of the age is prior to his coming, and not in 70 AD.
Revelation 20:1-10 [SUP]1 [/SUP]And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, [SUP]3 [/SUP]And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, [SUP]8 [/SUP]And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Even when you argue about the thousand year thing, here's the catch: it hasn't happened yet. so while we are called futurists, there is some futurism even in preterism, because there is a large gap between what happened in 70 A.D. and now. Way over 1000 years, with absolutely no reign of Christ happening. So there is a gap in preterism as well as futurism, with neither having a real explanation. They all seem to have holes in them. Big holes. Which is why I have a hard time understanding those who say preterism makes more sense.
Even when you argue about the thousand year thing, here's the catch: it hasn't happened yet. so while we are called futurists, there is some futurism even in preterism, because there is a large gap between what happened in 70 A.D. and now. Way over 1000 years, with absolutely no reign of Christ happening. So there is a gap in preterism as well as futurism, with neither having a real explanation. They all seem to have holes in them. Big holes. Which is why I have a hard time understanding those who say preterism makes more sense.
TomL,
sorry if you have addressed these questions elsewhere.
i would ask:
do you believe in a future Bodily Visible Return of Jesus Christ into this time and space and to, or near this place we call earth. i don't need details. just that question.
if the answer is no, does this old earth keep plugging along for eternity with ppl procreating and being lost and saved?
also, would you say there is no general resurrection, but resurrection and judgment is individual, and happens each time one dies?
(you can see where i'm headed with it, so i won't belabor the point - i'm partial preterist/amil at this time).
sorry if you have addressed these questions elsewhere.
i would ask:
do you believe in a future Bodily Visible Return of Jesus Christ into this time and space and to, or near this place we call earth. i don't need details. just that question.
if the answer is no, does this old earth keep plugging along for eternity with ppl procreating and being lost and saved?
also, would you say there is no general resurrection, but resurrection and judgment is individual, and happens each time one dies?
(you can see where i'm headed with it, so i won't belabor the point - i'm partial preterist/amil at this time).
THEY reigned with Jesus 1000 years.
It doesn't say Christ reigned only 1000 years.
It's the same as saying that I fly to England and reign with Queen Elizabeth for a year. MY reign was a year, but the Queeen continues to reign. Christ is reigning now, and will for eternity. The issue that many have is Christ's reign is a spiritual Kingdom. Not a physical reign.
The first resurrection was dying in sin, and coming alive in Christ
Example: I know baptism is controversial as well, but think about the symbolism of baptism. It is being buried with Christ. Before you are baptized you are dead in sin. Your sins are washed away and you start your new life as a Christian. I am not saying baptism saves. Water cannot wash sin away, but baptism is a symbol of the burial and ressurection.
Now, when you became a Christian you became a new person. Not physically, but spiritually.
Rom 6:3-5 says, "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection."
The 1000 years is the time from Christ's resurrection to his 2nd coming. We as Christians reign with him because we were resurrected from the grave of sin.
Stephen, I will study more on the futurist view.If I find the preterist view is in error then I will admit it, and show why it's error.
It doesn't say Christ reigned only 1000 years.
It's the same as saying that I fly to England and reign with Queen Elizabeth for a year. MY reign was a year, but the Queeen continues to reign. Christ is reigning now, and will for eternity. The issue that many have is Christ's reign is a spiritual Kingdom. Not a physical reign.
The first resurrection was dying in sin, and coming alive in Christ
Example: I know baptism is controversial as well, but think about the symbolism of baptism. It is being buried with Christ. Before you are baptized you are dead in sin. Your sins are washed away and you start your new life as a Christian. I am not saying baptism saves. Water cannot wash sin away, but baptism is a symbol of the burial and ressurection.
Now, when you became a Christian you became a new person. Not physically, but spiritually.
Rom 6:3-5 says, "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection."
The 1000 years is the time from Christ's resurrection to his 2nd coming. We as Christians reign with him because we were resurrected from the grave of sin.
Stephen, I will study more on the futurist view.If I find the preterist view is in error then I will admit it, and show why it's error.