MY PEOPLE ARE DESTROYED FOR LACK... PT 1

Red33 · May 7, 2012

I could come on this thread and show you more than 100 forms of false and questionable doctrine that involve the RCC and go all the way back to the Tower of Babel. What would that profit? Am I doing everything I can to reach those that are lost in RCC? Am I lovingly giving them the gospel and revealing Christ to them and the grace of God? Do I pray that God would open doors and send trained laborers into that specific field that in many areas is white and ready for harvest? If I am not doing these things then why am I trying to expose them in such a way?

Am I being motivated by the love of the truth and find it my calling to expose this system of darkness or should I be operating in the wisdom of God toward them that are without. Exposing what you consider to be evil is not always the wisdom of God nor is it redeeming the time. It is okay to let you speech be seasoned with salt but to go about it in this fashion has no eternal purpose nor will it win the lost. They need to be drawn to Christ and have the Holy Spirit convict their heart of their need for Him and the forgiveness and cleansing of sin. That is what the Holy Spirit is calling us to do and to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

eternally-gratefull · May 7, 2012

Red33 said:

I could come on this thread and show you more than 100 forms of false and questionable doctrine that involve the RCC and go all the way back to the Tower of Babel. What would that profit? Am I doing everything I can to reach those that are lost in RCC? Am I lovingly giving them the gospel and revealing Christ to them and the grace of God? Do I pray that God would open doors and send trained laborers into that specific field that in many areas is white and ready for harvest? If I am not doing these things then why am I trying to expose them in such a way?

Am I being motivated by the love of the truth and find it my calling to expose this system of darkness or should I be operating in the wisdom of God toward them that are without. Exposing what you consider to be evil is not always the wisdom of God nor is it redeeming the time. It is okay to let you speech be seasoned with salt but to go about it in this fashion has no eternal purpose nor will it win the lost. They need to be drawn to Christ and have the Holy Spirit convict their heart of their need for Him and the forgiveness and cleansing of sin. That is what the Holy Spirit is calling us to do and to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

judgment is mine sayeth the lord.

Jesus did not win nicodemus or saul over by judging their belief system, he won them by love and biblical truth.

the same will go with catholics.

if you judge them they will get defensive. Just show Gods truth. this is how all former catholics I know came to Gods truth.

Avinu · May 7, 2012

It is still a title the pope goes by.

So far, you have done alot of complaining, but have not provided ONE single thing of evidence that shows anything I have on here is incorrect. I am not against you, I am against the false blatant, blasphemous doctrine of satan that is called catholicism that has trapped and tricked so many people into following. The ONLY purpose of these 4 threads was to share what catholicism is truly about. I have 22 pages of documentation of facts of the falsity of catholicism. I didn't even put it all down or I would have had to make more threads. The truth is the truth, if any of my stuff is wrong show me and I'll apologize. There's always a chance a couple things might be wrong, but I KNOW the majority is correct because I found this stuff in too many different places.

dscherck · May 8, 2012

Avinu said:

There is NO false doctrine in Catholicism. None. You have shared 4 threads filled with nothing but quotes taken out of context, known hoaxes, and blatant lies. It's exactly like trying to show the nonsense behind the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. No matter what proof people provide, you will ignore it and concoct some theory to explain it away. You have no regards for the Truth, only for being right.

But fine, if you insist, I'll answer one of the claims. The so called "Jesuit oath". Oh look! A whopping 15 seconds of google later.... It's debunked.

If you do some more digging, it originated around the 1600s as an anti-Catholic tract from a known forger known as Robert Ware. He made a lot of inflammatory writings purported to lay bare the"truth" behind various Catholic organizations. They were all proven to be forgeries, but that doesnt' stop people from reprinting them in order to "save" Catholics.

If you want more information on the stories behind these forged documents, there's a great book called "Blunders and Forgeries: Historical Essays" found here: Blunders and Forgeries; Historical Essays by Thomas Edward Bridgett - New, Rare & Used Books Online at Alibris Marketplace

Oh yeah, and it's NOT a title the pope goes by in any official sense whatsoever.

Avinu · May 8, 2012

There is NO false doctrine in Catholicism. None. You have shared 4 threads filled with nothing but quotes taken out of context, known hoaxes, and blatant lies. It's exactly like trying to show the nonsense behind the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. No matter what proof people provide, you will ignore it and concoct some theory to explain it away. You have no regards for the Truth, only for being right.
I still hear complaining, but what I don't hear is a defense for YHVH, but a defense for a man made, pagan religion ran by a man who thinks he's above YHVH'S word. Hmmmmm
But fine, if you insist, I'll answer one of the claims. The so called "Jesuit oath". Oh look! A whopping 15 seconds of google later.... It's debunked.
Just for the sake of arguement, for I don't believe this is proof, but if the jesuit oath is false. Doesn't change the fact that catholocism is still false doctrine.

If you do some more digging, it originated around the 1600s as an anti-Catholic tract from a known forger known as Robert Ware. He made a lot of inflammatory writings purported to lay bare the"truth" behind various Catholic organizations. They were all proven to be forgeries, but that doesnt' stop people from reprinting them in order to "save" Catholics.

If you want more information on the stories behind these forged documents, there's a great book called "Blunders and Forgeries: Historical Essays" found here: Blunders and Forgeries; Historical Essays by Thomas Edward Bridgett - New, Rare & Used Books Online at Alibris Marketplace

Oh yeah, and it's NOT a title the pope goes by in any official sense whatsoever. Yes it is, and you're a liar.

Like

I have so much evidence on these four threads, and it's not even scratching the service. Except for MAYBE the jesuit oath, you still haven't shown anything to prove any of this stuff false. Because you can't. Quit being stiffnecked light my people were, and allow YHVH to open your eyes to the truth. Otherwise you suffer the same fate as they did.

dscherck · May 8, 2012

Avinu said:

15 seconds. That's how long it took me to find a link debunking just one claim. What you're doing here is the moral equivalent of posting the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and when people point out the ridiculousness, you get annoyed and demand that we prove every single article is false. And when we point out that you're making the claims, you should prove they're legitimate, you get mad and pretend it's more proof of the validity of your argument.

If you're going to make such harsh claims, you could at least do some basic research on them to see if they're valid. You didn't do that though, you just copied and pasted from some anti-Catholic web page without even bothering to compare these charges to what the Catholic Church actually teaches. And it's not like the Catholic Church doesn't have a publicly accessible web site with links to her doctrines available to you. It does, you just didn't take the time to read up on it. You have no regards for the Truth, only on being right. If you truly cared about the Truth, you'd actually investigate these claims, read BOTH sides of the arguments before posting something like this. Instead, you're just finding sites that confirm your bias with no regards for the Truth.

Laodicea · May 8, 2012

dscherck said:

The Bible says
Exodus 20:4-6
(4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
(5) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
(6) And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Exodus 20:10
(10) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

According to the Bible the Papacy go against these two commandments

Avinu · May 8, 2012

15 seconds. That's how long it took me to find a link debunking just one claim. What you're doing here is the moral equivalent of posting the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and when people point out the ridiculousness, you get annoyed and demand that we prove every single article is false. And when we point out that you're making the claims, you should prove they're legitimate, you get mad and pretend it's more proof of the validity of your argument. You have neither annoyed me or angered me, I actually feel pity for you, because you choose to be blind to the truth. What you don't understand is that if you continue to choose to be deceived, eventually YHVH will release you to a hardened heart and reprobate mind. I just hope He hasn't done that already.

If you're going to make such harsh claims, you could at least do some basic research on them to see if they're valid. You didn't do that though, you just copied and pasted from some anti-Catholic web page without even bothering to compare these charges to what the Catholic Church actually teaches.Your arrogance and assumption is amusing at best. Because most of what I got was out of books, not websites.

And it's not like the Catholic Church doesn't have a publicly accessible web site with links to her doctrines available to you. It does, you just didn't take the time to read up on it.Here it's obvious YOU didn't pay attention to half of the stuff I posted, because about half of it came from catholicisms own dictionaries and books.

You have no regards for the Truth, only on being right. If you truly cared about the Truth, you'd actually investigate these claims, read BOTH sides of the arguments before posting something like this. Instead, you're just finding sites that confirm your bias with no regards for the Truth.

There is no both sides of the story. When I see on tv. a pope kissing the qu'ran, and another pope kissing the feet of a statue of Mary, and all the graven images all around them, it's a no brainer that they are in direct disobedience to YHVH. So as I said, I pity you. May YHVH have mercy on you and anyone else who choose this path which is wide and destructive.

dscherck · May 9, 2012

Avinu said:

I feel pity for you, that the Fallen one has so blinded you to the beauty of Christ's Church. The fulfillment of the Law is found in His Church, the Holy Catholic Church, founded by Our Lord God and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Ah, so you just found a bunch of books with unfounded claims? Which books? Did any of them reference Lorraine Boettner? Or perhaps works by Alexander Hislop? Both of them are pretty popular books with anti-Catholics. The problem is that their work is pretty poorly researched and easily debunked.

No, half of it came from supposed Catholic books and dictionaries. I'm guessing that a good majority of these books are pretty old, or else they reference a lot of the more common anti-Catholic fictions. The other half actually might have been Catholic sources but are taken out of context. It's kind of like how some of my Atheist friends will quote Our Lord from Luke 19:27 and claim He wants violence. Which of course makes no sense in full context, Our Lord is speaking a parable and that's what someone in the parable is saying.

And yet we find in Scripture, the children of Israel commanded to use images in Temple worship. The Ark of the Covenant had images of Angels on it, the Temple doors had images used on them. When the children of Israel were attacked by serpents in the desert, the Lord commanded that a statue of a serpent be made and all who wanted to be healed must actually LOOK at the statue. It's painfully obvious that Our Lord has no issue with statues or images used in worship of Him. It's when someone worships the statue INSTEAD of Our Lord, that it's forbidden. So when the bronze serpent later on was worshiped as a god, it was destroyed.

But as it's been emphasized over and over again, CATHOLICS DO NOT WORSHIP STATUES OR THE VIRGIN MARY. You've been told this over and over again, yet you still persist in this false witness against what Catholic Christians believe. And regarding the Pope kissing the Koran, that too has been answered.

The idea that we cannot use images in worship of the Lord God is counter to Scripture, it's when we worship the images AS gods that they become graven images. But Catholics don't do that.

I know you're spreading this stuff in a misguided attempt to "save" us Catholics. I was once just like you. And it was a painful revelation to realize that I had been deceived and that what I thought was the Catholic Church.... well, it was a fake Catholic Church I was fighting against. The real Catholic Church is the exact opposite of what I thought. It's filled with an intense love of the Scriptures, and it's completely focused on Jesus Christ. And one needs only look at the fruits of the Church to realize that it's not a product of the devil, but of the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church is the world's largest charitable organization, bar none. It clothes the poor and feeds the hungry world wide. It has produced great scientists, philosophers, martyrs, confessors, authors, musicians, and countless other amazing men and women who have dedicated their talents to the Lord. Even today it produces martyrs for Christ. And even today it proclaims the gospel to all corners of the world.

You are fighting against a version of the Catholic Church that isn't real, it's a product of many people's fevered imaginations, that is fuelled on by the enemy who hates Christ's people and will do anything to divide them.

prophecyman · May 9, 2012

dscherck said:

A cheap shot that deserves the ignor button

Avinu · May 9, 2012

And yet we find in Scripture, the children of Israel commanded to use images in Temple worship. The Ark of the Covenant had images of Angels on it, the Temple doors had images used on them. When the children of Israel were attacked by serpents in the desert, the Lord commanded that a statue of a serpent be made and all who wanted to be healed must actually LOOK at the statue. It's painfully obvious that Our Lord has no issue with statues or images used in worship of Him. It's when someone worships the statue INSTEAD of Our Lord, that it's forbidden. So when the bronze serpent later on was worshiped as a god, it was destroyed

Click to expand...

This statement just proves your puposeful ignorance, for if you actually read scripture, EVERYTHING that was used in the temple was commanded by YHVH not Israel. And they weren't prayed to, worshiped or bowed to like catholics do. Same with the temple, the ARC, the serpent on the staff, all used BY YHVH, never worshiped for YHVH. You're like a child lashing out because he got busted. Your spiritual immaturity shows greatly. Because you dare use YHVH's own commands to accuse Him of having us worship images. Then that would be a direct contradiction to the 2nd commandment. You have alot of growing up to do, but unfortunately, as long as you are in catholicism you will just fall more and more.

You've told me stuff, but that means nothing. Because it's all over t.v. everyday. Angel network has 3 catholic channels that I'll watch for a few minutes just to see what they do, and everytime without fail. They bow before statues, kiss it, pray to it, all everything else. So you are a blatant liar. You're right is has been answered, I've seen it with my own eyes, Pope John Paul II kissing the qu'ran.

That is truly sad, you had it right in the first place, and then someone satan sucked you in to his lying religion. As many million have.

" And they said, didn't we feed the pour in Your name? Didn't we clothe the naked in Your name? Didn't we heal the sick in Your name? Yeshua said, I know you not ye workers of iniquity.

dscherck, as I've said before, the proof is in the pudding. It's so easy to prove the blasphemies of catholicism. And as sad as it is, you choose to follow it. I'm don't have anything more to say to you. I pray that it won't be too late for you, and that YHVH will bring you out of the sin of catholicism.

Katy-follower · May 10, 2012

One last thing to ponder over...

Hebrews 10:11-14: "And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But this Man, after He had offered ONE sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. For by ONE offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified"

This is worth the hour. Intro is 8 mins then the message....

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ4ga7c3sd0[/video]

Avinu · May 11, 2012

Wow, a man who was a catholic for over 40 yrs. and exposes some real truths about the evil that is catholicism. Like I said before, the proof is in the pudding.

dscherck · May 15, 2012

Avinu said:

You're the one insisting that we "worship" images. We've told you plainly that we do not. It's been pointed out to you from official sources that we do not. And yet you continue to make this false witness against us.
The use of images and statues IN worship of God is acceptable. The Scripture makes it clear. But when we worship the image INSTEAD of God, that's a grave sin. Catholics use images in worship but do not worship the images themselves.

Thanks for proving that you don't even bother to read any links posted. I appreciate that.

I'm not in a Satanic religion. My faith is based on Jesus Christ Our Lord.

Are you so sure it's referring to us Catholics? And not those who oppose Christ's Church and slander it with false witness?

[/quote]

The proof is in the pudding. The fruits of the Catholic faith are many. Through His Church we have had many great scientific advances; the college/university system to educate our youth; many martyrs for Christ come from our ranks; the preservation of the Scriptures themselves; the great councils; the spreading of the Gospel of the Lord to the new world, and indeed the old world as well; the world's largest charitable organization, feeding more of the world's hungry than ANY other organization on Earth, bar none. So yeah, I'm quite confident of the fruits of the Catholic Church.

Again, I will be glad to provide you with two books helping you better understand the Catholic Church. I will cover the cost completely. All I need is a shipping address. You can send it to me in PM.

You are so trapped in the darkness, come out of her! Let Christ show you the way to His Church, the Catholic Church. Come, do not be afraid of Christ!

dscherck · May 15, 2012

Katy-follower said:

40 years in the Catholic Church and he obviously didn't pay much attention in basic catechism. Such a shame. I'll pray for him.

Avinu · Jun 2, 2012

APPARENLTY WE NEED TO REVIST THIS.

Digital_Angel_316 · Jun 2, 2012

dscherck said:

The clarification would be - Catholic-ISM and Juda-ISM ... (and other such systems) we are
trying to address the systems, doctrines and practices, and not the persons here ... and for
any person that would hear, to call them out of the -ISM's ... and into a walk with Jesus, The
WAY. Many good people will hear the truth, and in time, by the Holy Spirit, begin to see those
truths, and begin to question and seek and in time, understand and commit to the truth, and be
'Born Again' into a new walk, in a new system - Jesus, The Way.

dscherck · Jun 2, 2012

Avinu said:

Really? If you insist I suppose. But when will you actually talk about what the Catholic Church teaches -vs- what you mistakenly believe we teach? Also, my offer still stands.

Sent from my XT875 using Tapatalk 2

Digital_Angel_316 · Jun 2, 2012

dscherck said:

The Vicarius Filii Dei Claim:

At least ten popes have claimed the title in formal church documents of Vicarius Filii Dei.
Most often this was indeed a reference to the forged document of The Donation of
Constantine, nevertheless, a church based forgery, and nevertheless, cited by the Popes.
Once published to the public, and therefore the laity in the early 1900s in a Catholic
Publication (later retracted), a great movement was put in place to deny the claim, for
indeed, it is a claim that no Catholic Lay person dare claim.

The Jesuit Oath Claim:
The text of the Jesuit Extreme Oath of Induction was recorded in the Journals of the 62nd
Congress, 3rd Session, of the United States Congressional Record (House Calendar No. 397,
Report No. 1523, 15 February, 1913, pp. 3215-3216), from which it was subsequently torn out.
The Oath is also quoted by Charles Didier in his book Subterranean Rome (New York, 1843),
translated from the French original. Dr. Alberto Rivera, who escaped from the Jesuit Order
in 1967, confirms that the induction ceremony and the text of the Jesuit Oath which he took
were identical. The text can be found in the Library of Congress. Again, certainly, like many
masonic or other secret order claims, these claims are denied when brought to the public
or laity's attention.

The Protocols of the [Learned] Elders of Zion:
Here again, it would not be a false claim to say that this was a forged document, or one that
was falsely assigned to a particular person or group. Still the document remains, and again,
being a part of a secret society, is much more protected than many other such documents.
Originals of the document do exist and are in circulation. The greatest deception of all is,
that this is NOT a JEWISH document, but rather ABOUT the Jewish Priory of Sion and is more
the claim and property of the Illuminati.

See the thread (on ChristianChat.com) THE PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION
(please read and post to the thread as you are moved)
Link -->> http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/29205-protocols-learned-elders-zion.html

Finally, none of this is to say that all Catholics are evil or bad people, but rather that they
are in a bad system, part of which has been infiltrated and highly corrupted, as any such
large organization is prone to be. Certainly these are deceptions and falsehoods to the
true doctrine of 'the church proper', but still they exist and are for 'eyes only' of certain
high level manipulators of the system who then propagate these plans through half
truths and apostasy in many sub-organizations.

dscherck · Jun 3, 2012

Wow, you actually said that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is believable! That there speaks enough about your credibility.

For those of you who actually do care about the truth, keep in mind that they have been debunked numerous times as a fake.

And if you consider them accurate, then it's no surprise you support the similarly fake claims of Alberto Rivera.

Couple of links for you though. Here's one from a thoroughly Protestant group: Cornerstone Magazine :: Alberto Rivera, Jack Chick, and a False Story

Here's another from a Catholic source: The Nightmare World of Jack T. Chick | Catholic Answers

And I can't find it online, but I'm sure you can find a copy in your library or by contacting the publisher of Christianity Today. They published an article thoroughly debunking his fraudulent lies called "Alberto Rivera: Is He For Real?", in their March 13th, 1981 issue. The two previous articles quote from the report but don't show it entirely.

MY PEOPLE ARE DESTROYED FOR LACK... PT 1

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