My take on water baptism...

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Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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You do , I hope understand that it was no yet available to get born again in the period of the Gospels? Water baptist is all they had.
Yes, I understand that during the "Gospels," they had water baptism AND the Messiah with them on the Earth and He had not yet been crucified, buried or resurrected yet.

However, AFTER Jesus rose from the dead, He did breath on them and told them to receive the Holy Spirit (which SEALED them).....

John 20:22 New International Version (NIV)
22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.


Right before Jesus left Earth, Jesus told them to tarry for the Promise of the Father which is BAPTISM with the Holy Spirit. The BAPTISM with the Holy Spirit happened at Pentecost.

Jesus had also told His disciples to.......

Matthew 28:19 New International Version (NIV)
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Water Baptism does NOT save but, it is a sign of the New Covenant IN CHRIST much like circumcision. Circumcision did not save but, it was very important.


(NOTE: When God makes a promise and wants to bind Himself to fulfilling it, He likes to give the promise or covenant a sign - like the rainbow that He gave when He promised to not flood the entire Earth anymore.)

The Holy Spirit Baptism is the empowering of the Believer to witness of Jesus Christ in the Earth and to have fellowship with God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and other Believers.

The power of the Holy Spirit is always with us but, if we resist, quench, grieve, or neglect the Holy Spirit, we become powerless - like a cellphone that only has 2%. We need to learn to stay FILLED with the Holy Spirit.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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Well, I think the words of Jesus in Acts 1:5 kind of say it is done with. Water baptism is of a more of a tradition in my thinking. Some of the church today turned it into some kind of requirement, but it is not, while some just say it is symbolic. We are saved by faith alone.
Why would water have anything to do with the spirit of God? Since He is spirit and not water. Why would he care if Christians got wet? Is it the water that saves the soul? Did water die for you? Did water rise from the dead for you? What is water all about?
I was going through the pages as I kind of went mia for a bit so I had to catch up but I wanted to explain your question what is water all about.
I am sure you have read in the bible how God's creation declares his glory, this is the same with water, yes it is symbolic but it is also a symbolic and spiritual thing. It is one of those things that you have to soak in the deeper things to see the truth shown in matters such as this, when we are born into this world we come from the waters of the flesh inside the womb baptism is a symbolic representation of being born from the spiritual waters as when we are born again we no longer live in the flesh but the spirit.

It isn't what saves and personally I don't think it is something that is a must if one doesn't want to but the purpose of it is again to testify and is a form of worship and declaration to God himself, if people think that water baptism saves then I fear for their souls
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,548
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Why would water have anything to do with the spirit of God? Since He is spirit and not water. Why would he care if Christians got wet? Is it the water that saves the soul? Did water die for you? Did water rise from the dead for you? What is water all about?

Why do we take the Lord's supper?
Do bread and wine purge sin?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,571
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A little logic for those who think Christian baptism is only baptism in/with/by the Holy Spirit...

When asked, "What shall we do to be saved?" Peter responded, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (NASB)

Repent and be baptized: both are volitional. Being baptized in/with/by or filled with the Holy Spirit is not volitional; the human has absolutely no control over it. He/she cannot decide for it to happen and cannot make it happen.

You just lost your argument... completely.

Next?
 
Jun 15, 2020
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Why do we take the Lord's supper?
Do bread and wine purge sin?
We do the Lord's supper in remembrance to him as he said. He never said to get wet for him. Some guy named Philip got wet but Christ never suggested it for the Christian.
 
Jun 15, 2020
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I was going through the pages as I kind of went mia for a bit so I had to catch up but I wanted to explain your question what is water all about.
I am sure you have read in the bible how God's creation declares his glory, this is the same with water, yes it is symbolic but it is also a symbolic and spiritual thing. It is one of those things that you have to soak in the deeper things to see the truth shown in matters such as this, when we are born into this world we come from the waters of the flesh inside the womb baptism is a symbolic representation of being born from the spiritual waters as when we are born again we no longer live in the flesh but the spirit.

It isn't what saves and personally I don't think it is something that is a must if one doesn't want to but the purpose of it is again to testify and is a form of worship and declaration to God himself, if people think that water baptism saves then I fear for their souls
Good statement by you...

"waters of the flesh inside the womb baptism is a symbolic representation of being born from the spiritual waters as when we are born again we no longer live in the flesh but the spirit."

So let us now be baptized into the holy spirit in the name of Jesus Christ (by his authority).
 
Aug 1, 2020
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Yes, I understand that during the "Gospels," they had water baptism AND the Messiah with them on the Earth and He had not yet been crucified, buried or resurrected yet.

However, AFTER Jesus rose from the dead, He did breath on them and told them to receive the Holy Spirit (which SEALED them).....

John 20:22 New International Version (NIV)
22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.


Right before Jesus left Earth, Jesus told them to tarry for the Promise of the Father which is BAPTISM with the Holy Spirit. The BAPTISM with the Holy Spirit happened at Pentecost.

Jesus had also told His disciples to.......

Matthew 28:19 New International Version (NIV)
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Water Baptism does NOT save but, it is a sign of the New Covenant IN CHRIST much like circumcision. Circumcision did not save but, it was very important.


(NOTE: When God makes a promise and wants to bind Himself to fulfilling it, He likes to give the promise or covenant a sign - like the rainbow that He gave when He promised to not flood the entire Earth anymore.)

The Holy Spirit Baptism is the empowering of the Believer to witness of Jesus Christ in the Earth and to have fellowship with God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and other Believers.

The power of the Holy Spirit is always with us but, if we resist, quench, grieve, or neglect the Holy Spirit, we become powerless - like a cellphone that only has 2%. We need to learn to stay FILLED with the Holy Spirit.
Can't argue that, thank you.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
17,357
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Good statement by you...

"waters of the flesh inside the womb baptism is a symbolic representation of being born from the spiritual waters as when we are born again we no longer live in the flesh but the spirit."

So let us now be baptized into the holy spirit in the name of Jesus Christ (by his authority).
Umm have you not already been baptized in the holy spirit?
And honestly the statement I made is not my own that is just how God taught me about water baptism he likes to use analogies with me
 
Jun 15, 2020
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Noah's ark is Christ.
Moses's ark is Christ.
The ark of the Testimony is Christ.

The two birds in Genesis 15 speak of Christ. The two birds in Leviticus 14 speak of Christ.

by water and by blood, through water and through blood. We need to understand what water means, and what blood means.

A thread full of 'immersion in water doesn't save you' is not edifying anyone. A thread filled with 'because I didn't yet know the details it must be another gospel' isn't edifying anyone.

What about we figure out what these things mean, how they are figures of the LORD our Salvation?
It is through knowledge of God that we have life. We hope to spend eternity knowing Him. Does it not stand to reason that we should search Him out on this topic?

I don't want to waste time on y'alls weird pet doctrines; i want to speak and read of Him.
Water baptism is not taught in any of the Epistles written by Paul or any other Apostle. All that can be known for the Church of God concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ is in those Epistles. And water is not in there.
 
Jun 15, 2020
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keep you waited so long, anyways here's the passage and to take note that it was personally done by the Apostle Paul himself. No water, no Holy Spirit, that would be a tie but what's left is the administrator, Paul says "I" not the "holy Spirit" so, it's not about the baptism with the Holy Spirit, hence, water baptism.;)


1 Corinthians 1:14-16

King James Version


14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
No water mentioned in any of your quoted verses. Water baptism is not taught in any of the Epistles written by Paul or any other Apostle. All that can be known for the Church of God concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ is in those Epistles. And water is not in there.
 
Jun 15, 2020
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Perhaps now you understand that it is important to know what the symbolism and type of water is in the scripture?

Maybe you will answer my question soon :)
Water baptism is not taught in any of the Epistles written by Paul or any other Apostle. All that can be known for the Church of God concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ is in those Epistles. And water is not in there.
 
Jun 15, 2020
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Can't argue that, thank you.
Water baptism is not taught in any of the Epistles written by Paul or any other Apostle. All that can be known for the Church of God concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ is in those Epistles. And water is not in there.
 
Jun 15, 2020
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Umm have you not already been baptized in the holy spirit?
And honestly the statement I made is not my own that is just how God taught me about water baptism he likes to use analogies with me
Water baptism is not taught in any of the Epistles written by Paul or any other Apostle. All that can be known for the Church of God concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ is in those Epistles. And water is not in there.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
17,357
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Water baptism is not taught in any of the Epistles written by Paul or any other Apostle. All that can be known for the Church of God concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ is in those Epistles. And water is not in there.
What? so you don't count acts?
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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I think @Peterlag has me on "ignore"........:unsure::giggle:

Hello Peter, are you there? :unsure::love:
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
17,357
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I think @Peterlag has me on "ignore"........:unsure::giggle:

Hello Peter, are you there? :unsure::love:
I find it hard to believe anyone would have you on ignore your a delightful person there is just no way.
I am honestly surprised he doesn't have me on ignore from all the times I confronted him
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,270
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So for those of us who claimed we follow the GC, we don't really follow the order that it was stated, unlike the 12.

Do you agree?

Luke 24:44-53
44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance for[a] the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”
Luke 24:44-47

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Acts 1:8-9
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9
And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

This seems to be in contradictory to what Luke did said in the Acts account versus his own writing at the gospel or one is in error either the one you are holding as the gospel preaching is to “begin from Jerusalem” or as Christ said in the book of Acts saying “both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth” If that is the case, yours indicates a focal point or starting of Gospel preaching and baptism of water and really contradicted what he later says as in Acts 1 and that is you are presenting a contradiction. Now my position is that Luke’s writing in the gospel books and in the Acts is not in contradictory. Simply, Luke used ‘beginning at Jerusalem” to indicate occurrence in, on or near, ‘at’ is used to talk about where something happens in other words the point of beginning to preach the gospel or good news that Jesus saves will not begin from Jerusalem, because Christ already did, Christ claimed in his early ministry of the gospel that he saves by putting their trust on him, the same message after his resurrection and ascension and they were only to continue, though this has a fresh meaning since it already fulfilled what was written about his death, burial and resurrection which is then now the basis of the gospel propagation around the world. The word “both’ qualifies that the gospel preaching and water baptism to be propagated alike or equally at any place without restriction even to the uttermost part of the earth or where ever they are. This is not the question of where to start but rather when to start which is after the Holy Ghost empowers them or until they “be endued from the power on high” where they can carry the GC “both in Jerusalem, and in Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth”
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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I find it hard to believe anyone would have you on ignore your a delightful person there is just no way.
I am honestly surprised he doesn't have me on ignore from all the times I confronted him
It might have upset him that I did not agree with him about the importance of water baptism which is why I started the thread "God, what's Water Baptism for?"

Peter thinks it is not needed anymore and I disagree. Let's see if Peter says "hello".......:unsure::love:(y)

However, I do think Peter and I agree on how wonderful and necessary the Holy Spirit Baptism is.....or at least, I think we do.....:unsure::giggle::love:(y)
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
17,357
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It might have upset him that I did not agree with him about the importance of water baptism. He thinks it is not needed anymore and I disagree. Let's see if Peter says "hello".......:unsure::love:(y)

However, I do think Peter and I agree on how wonderful and necessary the Holy Spirit Baptism is.....or at least, I think we do.....:unsure::giggle::love:(y)
Well he may just be offline sometimes I only see him around two am in my time other times like today he is on in the day
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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No water mentioned in any of your quoted verses. Water baptism is not taught in any of the Epistles written by Paul or any other Apostle. All that can be known for the Church of God concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ is in those Epistles. And water is not in there.
No word for "water" yet still no Holy Spirit is also there. That's a tie! hence, a tie breakdown is needed. Who do you think administered when Paul says "I baptize" Paul or the Holy Spirit? Let's break this tie Peterlag.