My Walk with Christ, as an Evangelical Christian.

[presidente]

(MY NOTE: One Lord = Jesus, one baptism = Holy Spirit & one faith = the faith OF Christ [Gal 2:16, 2:20, 3:22, Rom 3:22] & those that place their faith in Christ)

There is 'one baptism'--- a baptism we share in common. Hebrews 6 speaks of 'baptisms'-- plural. The word translated 'baptism' is also used allegorically.

Mark 10:38
But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?

Was Jesus referring of the baptism by the Spirit into the body of Christ? Was He saying that He was going to 'get saved'? Or was He using the word metaphorically? Jesus was preparing to suffer after this. He would speak of a cup again in Gethsemene in his prayer to the Father.


Peter told the people with him to baptize the Gentiles in the name of the Lord. He said, 'Who should forbid water.' These men were doing the baptizing. What they were baptizing into was water. Scripture speaks of the Spirit baptizing people into the body of Christ. Here, the Spirit does the baptizing. He baptized into the body of Christ. Jesus baptizes people with the Holy Spirit.

Different baptizers-- Men in one case, the Spirit in another, and Jesus in another.
What or Whom baptized into--- water in one case, the body of Christ in another, and the Spirit in another.

Then there was a baptism Jesus, James and John would partake of. My guess is that it was suffering for the sake of the kingdom, but it is not explicit in the passage.

 

[FlyingDove]

There is 'one baptism'--- a baptism we share in common. Hebrews 6 speaks of 'baptisms'-- plural. The word translated 'baptism' is also used allegorically.

Yes & I cited the salvation sealing eternally purifying Holy Spirit in post #100. The Holy Spirit. No water involved.

If Jesus is (alive) talking, it's old covenant. The new covenant doesn't begin until after Jesus' death & resurrection.

Gal 4:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, 4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
(MY NOTE: (4) God sent His Son made under the law. (5) To redeem them that were under the law.)

No one is saved until Jesus dies & is resurrected. No one received the eternal life giving, salvation sealing baptism purification with Christ's Holy Spirit. Until the 1st post resurrection Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4)

John 7:
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified)
(MY NOTE: The Holy Spirit was not yet given because that Jesus was not yet glorified/resurrected)

The PROMISE = Holy Spirit will be given

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send ""the promise"" of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high
(MY NOTE: Jesus teaches he will send "the promise" the Father made him)

Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for "the promise" of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me
(MY NOTE: Jesus tells them to wait in Jerusalem for "the promise" of the Father)

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days hence.
(MY NOTE: Jesus foretells the giving/baptism/out pouring of the indwelling Holy Spirit to come)

PROMISE Fulfilled

Acts 2:
1 (A) when the day of Pentecost was fully come
(MY NOTE: When the day of Pentecost had fully come)

4 And they were all "filled with the Holy Spirit" and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance
(NOTE: Here it is "filled with the Holy Spirit" the new covenant begins right here. Christ's baptism with His salvation sealing indwelling Holy Spirit)

Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear
(MY NOTE: After Christ's glorification/resurrection. Christ sends the Promise given to Him from the Father = Holy Spirit)

New Covenant Spiritual/Purifying Seal: Christ's baptism with the indwelling Holy Spirit

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.
(MY NOTE: Christ SEALS believers with Gods promise of the indwelling Holy Spirit)

Ehp 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
(MY NOTE: Believers are SEALED Gods Holy Spirit until the day thier Adamic corruptible bodies are redeemed & transformed into, eternal, incorruptible Heavenly bodies)

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
(MY NOTE: The Comforter < {translators Capitalized showing deity} = Holy Spirit will abide with you FOREVER)

 

[presidente]

@FlyingDove

You quoted various passages about God foreordaining and choosing saints to basically argue that we were 'saved' way back then. I presume that means you think people are not 'saved' in the contemporary error.

Bible scholars and theologians say we have been saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved. They look at the various verb tenses in scripture.

I can think of a couple of scriptures off the top that correct this idea that if God planned for us, the saints, to be saved, that we were saved way back when or in eternity past, and we aren't saved now or saved at a point in our lifetime.

One is where Paul says in Acts 16 to the Philippian jailer, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, you and your household. So, they were in an unsaved condition or in a condition of needing saving, and if they believed in Jesus, they would be saved. If God planned in ages past or in eternity past or before the jailer's birth, etc. for him to be saved, his being save was realized or actualized after he believed.

Another point is Ephesians 2:3 where Paul, speaking of their previous condition of being dead in their sins, were children of wrath. Romans 5:9 says being justified by His (the Lord Jesus') blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

So unbelievers are children of wrath. They come to faith in Christ, and they are saved from wrath. If God plans the salvation of the sinners whenever in the past, the sinners still need to be saved.

I also can't think of any scripture that uses the word 'saved' (or a word so translated) that shows God 'saving' then-future Christians in the past. I don't see where it uses 'saved' in that context. So verses about predestination, God foreknowing, etc. do not contradict the idea that someone dead in their sins needs to be 'saved' in the hear and now, and shall be saved in the future. We are, after all, awaiting the redemption of our bodies.

 

[Thewatchman]

Water was the OT physical purification shadow of the ultimate NT Spiritual purification process to come. Seen at the 1st post Pentecost Acts 2:4 (JEWS ONLY)

Then several years later Acts 10 at the Italian gentile Cornelius house

Acts 10:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

(MY NOTE: As Peter speaks (vs44) The Holy Spirit indwells the believing gentiles. Witnessing Jews are astonished to see, Gentiles that believed in Christ/s death & resurrection receive God's gift of the Holy Spirit/eternal life. No repentance of any kind was done, No water baptism (it comes later), No circumcision, they brought no sin sacrifice to the Temple, No Mosaic law keeping etc!

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

(MY NOTE: Only Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit [Matt 3:11, Lk 3:16, Mk 1:8, Jn 1:33]. Christ's Holy Spirit baptism is salvations ETERNAL SEAL [Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30]

Col 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, but by the [spiritual] circumcision of Christ in the stripping off of the body of the flesh [the sinful carnal nature]

(MY NOTE: OT covenant circumcision was physical & done/performed with hands. The NT circumcision is Spiritual & performed/done by the Lord Jesus without hands. (Also see Deut 30:6)

Eph 4:
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

(MY NOTE: One body/church, one Spirit/Holy Spirit. The King James translators capitalized Spirit showing deity)

5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

(MY NOTE: One Lord = Jesus, one baptism = Holy Spirit & one faith = the faith OF Christ [Gal 2:16, 2:20, 3:22, Rom 3:22] & those that place their faith in Christ)

Emblem definition: a symbolic representation of a particular quality or concept.

Water baptism is an emblem of the true NT spiritual baptism/circumcision/covenant seal. Done only by Christ & without hands.

Water baptism is an outwardly public declaration of the inner spiritual change & identifying oneself with the death, burial & resurrection of Chris.

Today water baptism is neither a conduit nor a requirement for salvation. As you see in Acts 10.

I am glad to see someone else post something here that is in line with the bible Thank you FlyingDove.
Presidente please pat attention to this post.

 

[Thewatchman]

@FlyingDove

You quoted various passages about God foreordaining and choosing saints to basically argue that we were 'saved' way back then. I presume that means you think people are not 'saved' in the contemporary error.

Bible scholars and theologians say we have been saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved. They look at the various verb tenses in scripture.

I can think of a couple of scriptures off the top that correct this idea that if God planned for us, the saints, to be saved, that we were saved way back when or in eternity past, and we aren't saved now or saved at a point in our lifetime.

One is where Paul says in Acts 16 to the Philippian jailer, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, you and your household. So, they were in an unsaved condition or in a condition of needing saving, and if they believed in Jesus, they would be saved. If God planned in ages past or in eternity past or before the jailer's birth, etc. for him to be saved, his being save was realized or actualized after he believed.

Another point is Ephesians 2:3 where Paul, speaking of their previous condition of being dead in their sins, were children of wrath. Romans 5:9 says being justified by His (the Lord Jesus') blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

So unbelievers are children of wrath. They come to faith in Christ, and they are saved from wrath. If God plans the salvation of the sinners whenever in the past, the sinners still need to be saved.

I also can't think of any scripture that uses the word 'saved' (or a word so translated) that shows God 'saving' then-future Christians in the past. I don't see where it uses 'saved' in that context. So verses about predestination, God foreknowing, etc. do not contradict the idea that someone dead in their sins needs to be 'saved' in the hear and now, and shall be saved in the future. We are, after all, awaiting the redemption of our bodies.

So what you are saying is that God has already chosen those that are to be saved and we have no part in it. When did this take place and how many of us are chosen
I do not believe that but this is what it sounds like what you are talking about.

 

[presidente]

So what you are saying is that God has already chosen those that are to be saved and we have no part in it. When did this take place and how many of us are chosen
I do not believe that but this is what it sounds like what you are talking about.

I think that is how FlyingDove takes the predestination passages and I was commenting on his previous comments.

 

[FlyingDove]

So what you are saying is that God has already chosen those that are to be saved and we have no part in it. When did this take place and how many of us are chosen
I do not believe that but this is what it sounds like what you are talking about.

I never made any such claim. God had a plan with a path long before the world was created. If man made the wrong choice. He would send His Son to the rescue. I have no idea how many will choose the right path (God knows).

The path is acknowledge that God is, you have sinned against His sovereign rule & deserve the punishment due, Death (Rom 6:23). And that you are in need of rescue. Admit your failure

Put your Faith in the sin atoning death & resurrection of His Son. (Acts 20:21) Repentance TOWARD God & Faith TOWARD Jesus.

All will be given the chance/DRAWN:

Jn 12:32 Jesus said; And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

(MY NOTE: Jesus was in fact lifted up. On a cross & ultimately from the grave. Everybody is drawn to/offered salvation via God's Holy Spirit. Sadly, not everyone excepts/embraces it, by FAITH)

 

[VCO]

But your toothy Pac-Man smiley face avatar looks so young.

Non-Denominational Evangelical Christian

I had to put that youngen on Ignore.

 

[VCO]

If the KJV is completely inspired, then one should note the dedication to the king, which is part of the document, praises the virtues of other translations.

Non-Denominational Evangelical Christian

I woke up when I first saw what the Translators actually said about their own VERISON. I know some of my words will be Shocking to an actual KJV ONLY BELIEVER. It is my personal Opinion. that most KJV ONLY believers, have PUT the KJV BIBLE WAY TO HIGH ON THE PEDISTAL. Blue text are my personal comments.

QUOTE:

revising that which hath bene laboured by others, . . . {That is a Paraphrase, and not an actual Translation.}

But how shall men meditate in that, which they cannot understand? {That is a prescription for replacing a Know Error for Another.}

the Seventy Interpreters, . . . among the Gentiles by written ERRORS preaching . . . {That is more proof that Errors still exist in the KJV.}

the Seventie were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to adde to the Originall, and sometimes to take from it; {That accounts for the KNOWN ERRORS, but what about UNKNOWN ERRORS.}

. . . the same will shine as gold more brightly, being rubbed and polished; also, if anything be halting, or superfluous, or not so agreeable to the original, the same may be corrected, and the truth set in place. {KNOWN ERRORS, but they were taken from 5 older BIBLE in English, with Known Errors, Checked with the Septuagint with KNOWN ERRORS, and checked with LATIN BIBLE with KNOW ERRORS. OH MY! No wonder why they were in hurry to REVISE, the ORIGINAL 1611 PREFACE. BUT THERE IS MORE.}

For to whom ever was it imputed for a fault (by such as were wise) to goe over that which hee had done, and to amend it where he saw cause? . . . {That certainly is a genuine Paraphrase and not a Genuine Translation out of an original language Bibles.}

But the difference that appeareth betweene our Translations, and our often correcting of them, is the thing that wee are specially charged with; let us see therefore whether they themselves bee without fault this way, (if it be to be counted a fault, to correct) and whether they bee fit men to throw stones at us: {That SAME supposed ERROR the 1611 Translation TEAM was accused of, is the SAME ERROR modern KJV ONLY believers have discounted nearly EVERY English Genuine Translation, because it in some places contradicts what they falsely believe the KJV is saying, INSTEAD OF WHAT GOD IS ACTUALLY SAYING.}

Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, . . . but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . .

{That makes it a PARAPHRASE and not an actual Translation from the original languages.}
:END QUOTE.


Now that is only the Negative part of the KJV. YES THE KJV IS THE BEST PARAPHRASED VERSION on the market today.

Yes it is true at one time I was well on the way to becoming a KJV ONLY BELIEVER, but I woke up. Please read the ORIGINAL 1611 KJV PREFACE, for yourself.

My favorite Translation today is HCSB, followed by NASB, ESV, NKJV, NRSV, ASV, NIV, NCV, RSV, NJB, and YLT.

I have no problem with using any of them.

 

[presidente]

Non-Denominational Evangelical Christian

I had to put that youngen on Ignore.

He said he's 81. As far as how you talk to him, is he an older man or younger man?

 

[VCO]

He said he's 81. As far as how you talk to him, is he an older man or younger man?

He said he's 81. As far as how you talk to him, is he an older man or younger man?

I would have a the age he claims. It has been my experience that kind of Attitude, almost only exists in Teenagers.

When I first bought first Computer, their was almost NO Christian Clip Art. So I bought a hand held Scanner, and started collecting Old Christian Books with those Pen and Ink drawing like Gustave Dore and other were drawing. I saved them in TIF format, now it is ancient history, and maybe I can covert a couple jpg format, so you can see what I used to be in to. Here are a couple examples:



Notice Moses has no shoes, Moses, Take your shoes off Your on Holy Land.

Show when I first started doing sermons, where I was a Vol. Chaplain. I did my sermon notes in just writing with a pen. AND every sermon notes was left on the Chair, so I tried Tried typing the Sermon Notes, same thing happened. The I tried putting one these old pictures from one of the late 1800 books, and almost every one when back to the cells with them. A picture is more powerful than a 1000 words, crossed my mind.

 

[VCO]

Here is a fairly new Bible Software company from England, that maybe useful to some. It is called (TW) the Word.
https://theword.net/

It is handy when listening to sermons online videos, You can get to cross reference verses and back quicker than the Pastor.
And best of all it is FREE.

QUOTE:
Everything for free
Unless you try it, you will not believe that free software can be of such quality. No catches, no ads, no nags, no registration, not even your e-mail to download. :END QUOTE.




The other 1/3 of the page is devoted Advertising, and I just ignore it, and besides the download, I almost Never Go there. I hope I am not violating some rule, by sharing a TOTALLY FREE SOFTWARE. I have used this version of Bible Software for two Years now, no PROBLEMS, and Yes they did not ask my email address, no registration, it is Truly FREE. Yes, IF YOU WANT, the Newer Bibles they do charge for, but you do get a lot of free Bibles. Some Bibles are only available in Black Letter Only. Here is what it looks like on my Screen, when I have half a scree for the Bible, and half a screen for a Bible Teaching Video.


I promise, no more like this. I just wanted to share totally free Software. I use Norton 360, with Lifelock, and they have never found anything imbedded in it.

 

[presidente]

Here is a fairly new Bible Software company from England, that maybe useful to some. It is called (TW) the Word.
https://theword.net/

It looks like something like Amplified there. I tried the Amplified a bit, but since the words in parenthesis didn't seem to be very closely tied to the Greek words translated in the text, it did not seem particularly useful for my purposes.

Does the software just offer translations? Does it show you the part of speech and link to a glossary/dictionary for Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic like some of the online interlinear tools? Can you look up the LXX or extrabiblical usage of Greek words when you click on words? Is there grammatical commentary?

 

[ResidentAlien]

Does the software just offer translations? Does it show you the part of speech and link to a glossary/dictionary for Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic like some of the online interlinear tools? Can you look up the LXX or extrabiblical usage of Greek words when you click on words? Is there grammatical commentary?

It has modules just like e-Sword. You can add Bibles and modules for the LXX, Textus Receptus and Westcott-Hort Greek NT. These show parts of speech, Greek and Hebrew. I don't know about Aramaic.

I used e-Sword for a long time but I like TW better, mainly because it has more and better modules.

 

[VCO]

Here are the "tools" options:

 

[presidente]

I think I might have had 'the word' software on an old PC in order to get a Bangla Bible to work with when I thought I might go do some ministry in Bangladesh, and I wanted to cut and paste the verses.

I didn't get that far with it as far as commentaries go. I think I had an LXX and could do some searching with it back then. This was probably 13 years ago or so. Does it offer something that you can't get through online interlinear type sites?

 

[VCO]

I think I might have had 'the word' software on an old PC in order to get a Bangla Bible to work with when I thought I might go do some ministry in Bangladesh, and I wanted to cut and paste the verses.

I didn't get that far with it as far as commentaries go. I think I had an LXX and could do some searching with it back then. This was probably 13 years ago or so. Does it offer something that you can't get through online interlinear type sites?

Never even heard of it. I use Strong's, much in the same way.

Some do not realize how different language definition can be. SOME people think Sacrifice only involves blood, but Jews have a lot of different things that have no blood involved.

 

[VCO]

I think I might have had 'the word' software on an old PC in order to get a Bangla Bible to work with when I thought I might go do some ministry in Bangladesh, and I wanted to cut and paste the verses.

I didn't get that far with it as far as commentaries go. I think I had an LXX and could do some searching with it back then. This was probably 13 years ago or so. Does it offer something that you can't get through online interlinear type sites?

Non-Denominational Evangelical Christian

Here is a Gustave Dore drawing, from an 1880 book that my wife bought me for my birthday. You can see why he is my favorite artist from the 1800's, that was done with a pencil:

Then another artist, they made a Wood Cut, to print it in books.
Later on they used Steel to Engraved the drawings on,
because they lasted almost permanently. Those old Wood Cuts
did not last very long, as those little ridges in the wood kept
braking off.

 

[presidente]

I think I might have had 'the word' software on an old PC in order to get a Bangla Bible to work with when I thought I might go do some ministry in Bangladesh, and I wanted to cut and paste the verses.

I didn't get that far with it as far as commentaries go. I think I had an LXX and could do some searching with it back then. This was probably 13 years ago or so. Does it offer something that you can't get through online interlinear type sites?

LXX is an abbreviation for the Septuagint, the Greek Old Testament in use in the time of Christ, supposedly translated the exact same way by 70 elders in Egypt working independently under Ptolemy's instruction. Maybe they were have supposed to have just done the Pentateauch, but sometimes the whole OT translation is called the LXX also. It's called the Septuagint or LXX after the 70.

 

[VCO]

Non-denominational Evangelical Christian.


The Septuagint they have, and HAVE NEVER SEE THE APREVATIANTION LXXE, LXX, LXXA are add on's, but it does none say how much, maybe they are free. Any how, I had not heard any of those Abbreviations, but they are there,