nephilim

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ckhascall

New member
Jun 2, 2019
23
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3
#21
what version of the Bible uses the word shapeshifters? It isn't in the NIV
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,514
1,004
113
#23
Blik, you had better toss that book out also. You rob God (in your mind) of His power over the spirit world. Tell, me: once a third of the angels rebelled would scripture call them God's sons? To say a spirit mingled with humans is not Kosher, in my book. Devils know of God's power and they tremble. James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
Yes they are not subject to salvation .Not created in the image of God. Mankind alone.

Hebrews 2:4-6 King James Version (KJV) God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?
 

Shekinahglory

Active member
Aug 29, 2019
126
54
28
#24
Hi, I have been led to the understanding that the daughters of men are exactly that human daughters.. these daughters were the impedes for the angels to become fallen by taking these women and fathering children with them. These children became the myths that every tribe or nation has in their historic record.
The sons of God are angels. They came as men as they tookis the ox which shows them as a servant I the daughters of women and produced the children that are the basis for the folktales and myths.

The next face was that of an eagle this spoke of angels being made in image of Christ. The king

The third face that of a Lion speaking of being from Royal line

The last face is the ox which speaks of us a servant

All these are in the Gospel each Gospel depicting Christ as that person.

Matthew is a picture of the Lord as the Son of David

Mark pictures the Lord as the servant

The book of Luke pictures Him as fully Man

John corresponds to the eagle and pictures Him as fully God
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,726
501
113
#25
How would that pertain to the gospel meaning. . . the golden thread woven throughout the scriptures?

No book of Enoch or Catholic council. The commandment to Adam a creature formed from the dust DNA was to be fruitful and multiple. Angels cannot multiple .

Angels cannot take on form of shapeshifters other than special effect department Hollywood. If they could take on form ( shapeshifters ) it would of been used in the garden when the father of lies put his words on the lips of the serpent a creature that has DNA. Or with Peter in Mathew 16 When God said to Peter get behind me Satan you have in mind the things of men, not the things of shapeshifters.

In order to stop the madness of the false prophets Balaam, God who has not form put his words on the mouth of that beast in the same way as in the garden . God does not change shift into a donkey

Believers as sons of God the renown multiplying with natural born mankind as daughters of men .Don't be unevenly yoked.

God sent the flood to reserve the seed Christ which was fulfilled in the Son of man Jesus. The father puts His words in his mouth as in the last days he spoke through his Son who came to do the will of the father.
If what you say is true then scripture is not true. In Genesis 18 it speaks of three men who were angels that appeared to Abraham. In Hebrews 13:2 we are told this: 2Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
7,526
3,692
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#26
Most people I've heard who take that view ^ , also say "because, see here in Job..." (and I already mentioned briefly why I do not believe Job 1 & 2 took place in heaven, but on the earth, based on the study I did in those chpts/in that Book).

It's not just Job. Peter and Jude specify they are angels.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
11,160
5,819
113
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#27
If what you say is true then scripture is not true. In Genesis 18 it speaks of three men who were angels that appeared to Abraham. In Hebrews 13:2 we are told this: 2Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
On the plain of Mamre, the pre-incarnate Christ and two angels (cherubim or seraphim) appeared as humans and ate and drank with Abraham. Christ then sent the angels on to Sodom and Gomorrah for their destruction. They definitely had God's permission.

Remember Blik, angel usually translates as messenger. The messenger can be God Himself, a cherub/seraph, another human or even an animal like Balaam's donkey.


Two instances where God is called an angel (messenger): Exo. 3:2 - He called Himself "I AM" here. Gen. 22:15,16 - Here He swore by Himself.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,514
1,004
113
#28
If what you say is true then scripture is not true. In Genesis 18 it speaks of three men who were angels that appeared to Abraham. In Hebrews 13:2 we are told this: 2Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
Thanks for the reply. I would offer..

That in respect to the Lord as one of the three was a vision or theophany .Three is used many times throughout the Bible to denote the end of a matter .

Genesis 18 King James Version (KJV)
And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

He used real men as messengers or called angels. Usually sends them two by two to represent the law and the prophets. The two witnesses of God .(sola scriptura) the reforming authority as it is written. . . protecting his unseen integrity

Two kinds of messengers. The kind seen as in be careful who you sit down with coffee and entertain and angels as spirits messengers of truth not seen.

Many messenger on Christians boards like you own self.

And the men (not the lord as a theophany ) rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way. And the Lord said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do; Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord, to do justice and judgment; that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. And the men (not the lord as a theophany ) turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord.Genesis 18: 16- 22

It would seem 3 -1 =2 men .

Can't have real sex with angels that have no dna or form to behold .That would seem more like a form of imagination.
 

ckhascall

New member
Jun 2, 2019
23
13
3
#29
How would that pertain to the gospel meaning. . . the golden thread woven throughout the scriptures?

No book of Enoch or Catholic council. The commandment to Adam a creature formed from the dust DNA was to be fruitful and multiple. Angels cannot multiple .

Angels cannot take on form of shapeshifters other than special effect department Hollywood. If they could take on form ( shapeshifters ) it would of been used in the garden when the father of lies put his words on the lips of the serpent a creature that has DNA. Or with Peter in Mathew 16 When God said to Peter get behind me Satan you have in mind the things of men, not the things of shapeshifters.

In order to stop the madness of the false prophets Balaam, God who has not form put his words on the mouth of that beast in the same way as in the garden . God does not change shift into a donkey

Believers as sons of God the renown multiplying with natural born mankind as daughters of men .Don't be unevenly yoked.

God sent the flood to reserve the seed Christ which was fulfilled in the Son of man Jesus. The father puts His words in his mouth as in the last days he spoke through his Son who came to do the will of the father.
Thanks for the reply. I would offer..

That in respect to the Lord as one of the three was a vision or theophany .Three is used many times throughout the Bible to denote the end of a matter .

Genesis 18 King James Version (KJV) And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

He used real men as messengers or called angels. Usually sends them two by two to represent the law and the prophets. The two witnesses of God .(sola scriptura) the reforming authority as it is written. . . protecting his unseen integrity

Two kinds of messengers. The kind seen as in be careful who you sit down with coffee and entertain and angels as spirits messengers of truth not seen.

Many messenger on Christians boards like you own self.

And the men (not the lord as a theophany ) rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way. And the Lord said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do; Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord, to do justice and judgment; that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. And the men (not the lord as a theophany ) turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord.Genesis 18: 16- 22

It would seem 3 -1 =2 men .

Can't have real sex with angels that have no dna or form to behold .That would seem more like a form of imagination.
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
2,073
709
113
#31
Manna, Angels food is what they ate in the wilderness. Therefore angels do have substance. We will be eating in our new bodies (incorruptible) also. They left their place of habitation. Mixed with the daughters and GIANTS were created. Super simple.
 

ckhascall

New member
Jun 2, 2019
23
13
3
#32
I don't know where it says manna is angels food. When we are living with the Lord in the new Jerusalem, it will be a new Heaven and a new Earth, the old will be passed away. I think our food from the Tree of Life will be spiritual food. The Lord is our spiritual food also so I don't know how that all goes together. Thank you for your input. Not so simple for me yet.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,726
501
113
#33
On the plain of Mamre, the pre-incarnate Christ and two angels (cherubim or seraphim) appeared as humans and ate and drank with Abraham. Christ then sent the angels on to Sodom and Gomorrah for their destruction. They definitely had God's permission.

Remember Blik, angel usually translates as messenger. The messenger can be God Himself, a cherub/seraph, another human or even an animal like Balaam's donkey.

Two instances where God is called an angel (messenger): Exo. 3:2 - He called Himself "I AM" here. Gen. 22:15,16.
On the plain of Mamre, the pre-incarnate Christ and two angels (cherubim or seraphim) appeared as humans and ate and drank with Abraham. Christ then sent the angels on to Sodom and Gomorrah for their destruction. They definitely had God's permission.

Remember Blik, angel usually translates as messenger. The messenger can be God Himself, a cherub/seraph, another human or even an animal like Balaam's donkey.

Two instances where God is called an angel (messenger): Exo. 3:2 - He called Himself "I AM" here. Gen. 22:15,16 - Here He swore by Himself.
Angels cannot be classed as "I am". That is God. Angels are messengers, it is true but there has to be different classes of angels. When scripture speaks of hosts of angels it could not be Raphael, Michael or Gabriel. They are archangels. We are told that angels cannot take the form of men and we are told that some angels take the form of men, so again there has to be different classes of angels, ones who can do this and ones that cannot. We are told that fallen angels are sometimes called Teraphim as in the case of Raphael's household idols. We are also told of angels called the burning angels or Seraphim.

Fallen angels are ones who have rebelled against God and become demons.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
27,630
6,118
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#34
I don't know where it says manna is angels food.
Psalm 78:24-26 (KJV)

And had rained down manna upon them to eat, and had given them of the corn of heaven.

Man did eat angels' food: he sent them meat to the full.

PS~ There is not one instance in the Bible where any angel took
on human form aside from performing the express will of God.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
27,630
6,118
113
#35
The book of Enoch explains the Nephilim, scripture that has been accepted has very scant information. The Catholic council decided that this book was too Jewish, and during one of the anti-Semite years they decided it was not authentic. Until that time it was accepted, with even reference to it in our scripture. Enoch tells us that a large group of angels rebelled. There is one class of angels that can take on human form as we are told in the book of Hebrews when we are told to be kind to strangers because they may be angels. These rebellious angels married humans and produced wicked and huge people. They overran the earth, with appetites so large the earth could not support them. God sent the flood to wipe them out to protect His people.
The flood was sent to wipe out humanity and all flesh of the earth with the breath of life except for Noah and his family because the wickedness of men had become so great; their thoughts and desires were only evil all the time.

Genesis 6:5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,423
3,110
113
#36
would someone like t weigh in on who the " daughters of men " and " sons of God " are in Genesis 6:1-4?
Have you checked existing threads on this subject in CC? In brief the daughters of men are human women whereas the sons of God are fallen angels who co-habited with them and produced Nephilim or giants.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
7,526
3,692
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#38
Please, provide scripture references.
Once in a while this comes up and I like to give a complete picture. We will not understand, or we will have to explain away through allegory and other means huge chunks of Scripture if we don't get this right. I no longer believe this is merely a hobby horse issue.

If garden variety sin (murder, adultery, hatred, blasphemy, etc...) was the cause of the Great Flood, then we better ALL start building an Ark! ( Actually, Jesus IS our Ark, and we are safe in Him today).

No. There was a specific sin, one that is close to or IS being duplicated today, that caused God to destroy the ancient World with a Flood, and will cause Him to destroy the World again through judgement, culminating with fire.

That sin was corrupting HIS creation. The Bible says ALL flesh had become corrupted.

Genesis 6:11-12 New King James Version (NKJV)
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for ALL flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.

God holds out ONLY Noah and his family, and I believe the animals that were on the Ark, as having incorrupted genes.

Genesis 6:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
Noah Pleases God
9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.

Where do you think we get the word "genes" from? GENEology and GENErations.


So now we get to how this gene corruption happened. Well, Genesis 6:1-4 tells us it was when the Sons of God mated with the daughters of men. I believe they also corrupted the animals in some way. Similar to how we are mixing animal DNA today. Even with humans.

Understand there is ZERO corroborating Scripture to support the Sethite or Kings idea that they were the Beni-Elohim. In fact, NO human was a Son of God, except pre fall Adam, UNTIL Jesus Christ died, rose again, and WE became sons of God when we were born again, a NEW creation, from above.

Sons of God always refers to a Being made by God Himself. It is true that all are creations of God. But you are not a Child of God until you are born again.

Everyone born of Adam, INCLUDING SETH, was born in Adam's fallen state, likeness, or image, NOT GOD'S! Very important point:
Genesis 5:3 New King James Version (NKJV)
3 And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.

While we may PHYSICALLY all be born in the likeness of God, we are SPIRITUALLY born in the likeness of FALLEN Adam. That's why Jesus had to come in the 1st place.

So how could the Sons of God be children of Seth or kings? They can't

Now the fallen angels.....
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
7,526
3,692
113
#40
Please, provide scripture references.

One of the most used points in saying the nephilim weren't the progeny of fallen angels and human women is the idea that angels can't have sex. And the main Scripture to support that idea is:
Matthew 22:30 New King James Version (NKJV)
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.

This verse actually SUPPORTS the fallen angel mating view. Notice the last two words in that verse. IN HEAVEN.
It is precisely for this reason that they are held in Tartarus RIGHT NOW.

2 Peter 2:4 New King James Version (NKJV)
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell (Tartarus) and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

So what is the sin they committed?
Jude 6-7 New King James Version (NKJV)
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jude is relating the SEXUAL sin of Sodom and Gomorrah to a SEXUAL sin the fallen angels committed. The word "abode" or "habitation" in verse 6 (oiketerion) is used in only one other place in Scripture, and refers to the glorified Heavenly body we will receive upon our resurrection:
2 Corinthians 5:2 New King James Version (NKJV)
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation (oiketerion) which is from heaven,

These angels LEFT their heavenly bodies, and mated with human women, likely BECAUSE they were not allowed to procreate IN HEAVEN. That is the reason they are in Chains awaiting final judgement right now.

So, what about their offspring, the Nephilim? Have to tackle that later. Off now to Church....