NEW PRETRIB RAPTURE EVIDENCE!!!

[heartofdavid]

I don't understand brother why these can't be people that BECAME Christians DURING the reign of antichrist, but AFTER the Rapture of the Church.

Apparently they need to find out what we believe from scripture and proceed from there.
Otherwise it is a na strawman.
Of course there are saints in the Gt.
Not very long,but they are there.

 

[heartofdavid]

AMEN...been saying since about 1992 POST-TRIB/PRE-WRATH in gathering at the 7th trump.......I used to believe in the imminent return, was taught it my whole life, defended it dogmatically and then changed my mind due to study because there are too many contradictions found in scripture for it to be correct......not going to argue with anyone about it........

Framing the end times on trumpets is ignoring the bulk of verses or flat out removing them.

Trumpets is not a game changer.

 

[heartofdavid]

I was thinking of doing a write-up when I get chance (time). I have a lot of handwritten notes in my bibles to refer to but have never typed them out anywhere. Whenever I made suggestions in the past you showed no interest so I proceeded no further.
Perhaps a blog entry might be a better way to go about it?

Please understand that I think I have things to learn from you, one who has studied the word regarding this subject.
I am not trying to disprove you, only to challenge what has been taught in churches for years- that we will be whisked out of here before things get rough. In my own studies over the years based on scripture, I find too many holes in that theory.

I would give you less grief if you would admit that you may not have it ALL figured out yet. I don't think I do. But I do have an understanding of SOME things.

I for one would welcome any evidence.

You are welcome to provide it.

 

[heartofdavid]

Indeed!

Psalm 91

1 He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High
will rest in the shadow of the Almighty.[a]
2 I will say of the Lord, “He is my refuge and my fortress,
my God, in whom I trust.”

3 Surely he will save you
from the fowler’s snare
and from the deadly pestilence.
4 He will cover you with his feathers,
and under his wings you will find refuge;
his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.
5 You will not fear the terror of night,
nor the arrow that flies by day,
6 nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness,
nor the plague that destroys at midday.
7 A thousand may fall at your side,ten thousand at your right hand,
but it will not come near you.
8 You will only observe with your eyes
and see the punishment of the wicked.

9 If you say, “The Lord is my refuge,”
and you make the Most High your dwelling,
10 no harm will overtake you,
no disaster will come near your tent.
11 For he will command his angels concerning you
to guard you in all your ways;
12 they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.
13 You will tread on the lion and the cobra;
you will trample the great lion and the serpent.

14 “Because he[b] loves me,” says the Lord, “I will rescue him;
I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.
15 He will call on me, and I will answer him;
I will be with him in trouble,
I will deliver him and honor him.
16 With long life I will satisfy him
and show him my salvation.”

The apostles were martyred with ps 91 in full force.
The AC martyrs christians with God PREVENTING ps 91.
It says "power was given him to overcome the saints"
Also; that they gained victory over the AC BY MARTYRDOM.

The AC kills every single christian.

 

[heartofdavid]

It's all falling apart for the pre-trib position. There is too much scripture simply left ignored. And a tendency to interpret scriptural evidence as supporting the existing position.

You are welcome to post something supporting your views.
You need to show some evidence of a postrib deliverance.

 

[dcontroversal]

So,you are saying rev 14 is the rapture?.

You have to be saying rev 14 also has the dead in Christ raised and raptured.
Doesnt fit.

Because now you have the dead in Christ raised AFTER rev 7. Meaning they DIDNT rise first

Wrong......and you do understand that Revelation is not in chronological order right......and ALL things must jive with 1 COMING (Parousia/BODY PRESENCE) of Christ

WAS
IS and
IS to COME...

the 7th trump fits....JESUS is LORD, CHRIST and GOD.....at the 7th TRUP we see the following commence...

The DAY of the LORD<=seizes control of all earthly kingdoms as LORD
The DAY of CHRIST<=REWARDS the saints, prophets and those who fear God in the air
THE DAY of GOD<=Pours out wrath as GOD on unbelieving lost gathered under the banner of the beast


and where did I mention Revelation 14?

 

[dcontroversal]

The apostles were martyred with ps 91 in full force.
The AC martyrs christians with God PREVENTING ps 91.
It says "power was given him to overcome the saints"
Also; that they gained victory over the AC BY MARTYRDOM.

The AC kills every single christian.[/QUOTE]

No where does the bible state the bolded above....quite the contrary....we which are ALIVE and remain unto the coming of the LORD.....

 

[heartofdavid]

Again, God knows them that are His and will protect them. When God was throttling Egypt, He was protecting the Jews. He knows who to pour His wrath upon and who not to.

Doesnt fit.
Postrib says we are delivered after the gt and immediately return to earth.
The hebrews were delivered into the wilderness and never returned to egypt,nor was egypt. Where the kingdom would be established.

Moses,if used as a type would more fit his first advent,with joshua representing the second coming.
Flawed but better than most would present

 

[dcontroversal]

Framing the end times on trumpets is ignoring the bulk of verses or flat out removing them.

Trumpets is not a game changer.

Your assumption falls flat of creditability......and if you think that I believe what I believe because of the trumpets and all that is said about them....proves you way out on the limb-of-assumption while sawing next to the tree....

 

[heartofdavid]

The apostles were martyred with ps 91 in full force.
The AC martyrs christians with God PREVENTING ps 91.
It says "power was given him to overcome the saints"
Also; that they gained victory over the AC BY MARTYRDOM.

The AC kills every single christian.[/QUOTE]

No where does the bible state the bolded above....quite the contrary....we which are ALIVE and remain unto the coming of the LORD.....

It says all take the mark.
You need to refuse it,not take it.
You will see firsthand what happens.
Btw,those that do,will say " man we did the right thing. Look what happens to those refusing it"
Solid bible. Nowhere do you see any victory in hiding in caves or some wilderness shack.
You guys are using your imagination.

 

[heartofdavid]

Your assumption falls flat of creditability......and if you think that I believe what I believe because of the trumpets and all that is said about them....proves you way out on the limb-of-assumption while sawing next to the tree....

No,my statement applies to that dynamic no matter what position you take.

 

[heartofdavid]

Wrong......and you do understand that Revelation is not in chronological order right......and ALL things must jive with 1 COMING (Parousia/BODY PRESENCE) of Christ

WAS
IS and
IS to COME...

the 7th trump fits....JESUS is LORD, CHRIST and GOD.....at the 7th TRUP we see the following commence...

The DAY of the LORD<=seizes control of all earthly kingdoms as LORD
The DAY of CHRIST<=REWARDS the saints, prophets and those who fear God in the air
THE DAY of GOD<=Pours out wrath as GOD on unbelieving lost gathered under the banner of the beast


and where did I mention Revelation 14?

You didnt mention it.
I am saying postrib has no where to go with rev 14 in light of 1 thes 4.
Use "first" in rev 14.
Show me thesilonians in rev 14.
Hint ;
It has a sequence. Only one fits.

 

[3Scoreand10]

Take a fresh look at these verses;

Rev 7;9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

Now we know from 1 thes 4 that the dead rise FIRST.

That means these innumerable one HAD TO ARRIVE AFTER THE RAPTURE.
What a heavy revvie. LOL

Back in the last century when I was a kid, Fats Domino had a hit record call THE TWIST.
A whole lot of twisting of the Word here on your part.
And I see many have joined with you in this dance party.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It's all falling apart for the pre-trib position. There is too much scripture simply left ignored. And a tendency to interpret scriptural evidence as supporting the existing position.

Nothing is "falling apart" except in your imagination (and in the propaganda against this view). No Scriptures have been ignored and all relevant Scriptures have been tied together for a very long time. The basic truth which all Christians must acknowledge from Scripture is that the Pre-Tribulation Rapture reflects the coming of Christ for His saints as always being IMMINENT. It could happen today.

 

[OtherWay210]

This is just proof how bad doctrine begins from
not knowing how to read !

They come out, because they went through it .

If people are able to mess up this easy passage ; imagine what they do to scriptures describing other subjects they have no concept of.

We can't redefine scriptures.

 

[OtherWay210]

Anyone saying " New" does not know the bible . New doctrines make void Gods words .
rapture is new, and its not bible. Rapture is antichrist.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I don't understand brother why these can't be people that BECAME Christians DURING the reign of antichrist, but AFTER the Rapture of the Church.

How can become Christians when the ekklesia and Spirit have been caught up?

 

[valiant]

No,my statement applies to that dynamic no matter what position you take.

your statement belongs to fantasy. The great tribulation of 7.14 began in 1st century AD and has continued in different parts of the world ever since It is mentioned in the message to the fourth (first century) church,.

 

[John146]

The apostles were martyred with ps 91 in full force.
The AC martyrs christians with God PREVENTING ps 91.
It says "power was given him to overcome the saints"
Also; that they gained victory over the AC BY MARTYRDOM.

The AC kills every single christian.[/QUOTE]

No where does the bible state the bolded above....quite the contrary....we which are ALIVE and remain unto the coming of the LORD.....

Tribulation saints that were killed for the testimony of Jesus Christ:

Revelation 2:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 14:12-13 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 6:6-9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

[Nehemiah6]

your statement belongs to fantasy. The great tribulation of 7.14 began in 1st century AD and has continued in different parts of the world ever since It is mentioned in the message to the fourth (first century) church,.

How could this even be possible since the Lord made it crystal clear that the Great Tribulation is a UNIQUE EVENT? It has never happened in history and will never happen again after it occurs. If the Great Tribulation was merely the trials, tribulations, and testings of Christians throughout the world, we would not have this statement:

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (Mt 24:21)

For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. (Mk 13:19)

Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. (Lk 21:26)