Nicolaitanes philosophy of “systematic distortion” and negation of scripture.

[just-me]

Now I agree that the changing of times was an evil thing... but I do not think that anyone will be judged for following the changed times.
I do not think that the correct times are something to be regained. They are lost and gone until restored by Christ.

There are too many conflicting, potentially valid, calendars. Which one do you think is right, and why? What evidence supports your decision? I can tell you now, that there are at least 4 other calendars which hold the same ancient authority, with similar evidences.

No. The calendar was destroyed. The times were changed! You can only PRETEND to know the true calendar. It is not an attainable thing, as it was thoroughly changed... many many times. The details and extents of the changes are only conjecture. There is no "Rosetta Stone" of date and time tables to even get an adequate or even relative understanding of the ancient calendar.

Following some Talmudic calendar is about as useful in pursuing the righteousness of God, as reading the works of Zoroaster.

That's right.
Now please understand this. The God ordained celebrations defined in our Bibles have vanished with the changing of times. Bringing back the original calendar is not the real issue, even though losing the proper times and seasons have assisted greatly in the church losing the celebrations of God, and being replace by ungodly celebrations, based on the worshiping of false gods.

Please understand that the motives of Balaam, being that of compromising the word of God is still in full swing as it was way back then. The spiritual intent of God's ordained feasts have been replaced by this known as "The Doctrine of Balaam" in coordination with "The Doctrine of the Nicolaitanes. Exposing this truth a threat to Satan's agenda. It's not about the calendar, it's about a doctrine that uses any means possible to distort, delete, make void, and abolish God's word with deception. How many professing Christians do you know who sincerely want to understand the spiritual motives of the 3 feasts listed in the Bible? I dare say, I have found very few.

Do we want to enter into the 1000 year reign of Christ by continuing to reject some of His word, while continuing to use the salvation of Christ as an excuse for our purposeful rejection of His feasts?

Zechariah 14:16-19 (put these 4 verses into context with the entire chapter)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

[just-me]

[SUP]Galatians 4:8-10
8 [/SUP]Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Don't let anyone tell you that the "weak and beggarly elements" are the commandments of the "Living Almighty God." Using these verse to teach that they are is the false doctrine which permeates the church of today. Verse 8 clearly states, and relates the "weak and beggarly elements" are things that were practiced before they knew God, and they did "service unto them which by nature are no gods."

We are supposed to adhere to God's "days, and months, and times, and years" (verse 10) and not "days, and months, and times, and years" that have been endorsed to make God's "days, and months, and times, and years" obscure.

Get real church! Has not God's calendar been replaced by Julius Caesar, and Pope Gregory? What on earth do you think the church in Galatia was practicing that got Paul's' attention?

Using this scripture to teach us that it's God's "weak and beggarly elements" they were observing, and being put under bondage to, is pure "blasphemy" against God Almighty!

 

[just-me]

According to Christian tradition, John the Apostle ordained Antipas as bishop of Pergamon during the reign of the Roman emperor Domitian. I refer you to Revelation 2:13

Did Pergamos have access to the letters of the apostles or did they have the same Old Testament scriptures as the Beareans did? One cannot say for sure, but if Antipas was ordained by John (the beloved of Christ) then he ministered to same as John and Christ Jesus, and was a martyr, the same as Christ Jesus.

God preserved Paul's teachings he gave to Bereans in writing for us. Paul used Old Testament scriptures and prophecies to prove the truth of Christ's fulfillment of them.

I heard an old time pastor say once “If Jesus came back the same today as He did 2000 years ago, the religious organizations today would kill Him again.” I will never forget that, because the propagation of falsehood is right in front of us all, and it seems as many cannot see that.

Those who purposefully cause controversy against those who make it known that they esteem God's law, are obviously doing it on purpose. It is a very good possibility that some (a minority IMO) know exactly who they are working for, and they are afraid that their deceptive tactics will be revealed by the light of truth.

Jesus didn't fight against His own Father's law, or destroy any of His Father's words on the cross. Jesus Christ is the "Word of God." If Jesus destroyed Himself, then salvation would not be available to anyone. If Jesus had never rose from the dead, then we could say that Jesus crucified the law, but that's NOT TRUE! He completed His Fathers will defined by His own Father's words, and destroyed the sin in those of us who truly believe in all of God's word, not just half!

All false doctrines are adversarial to God's words by using subtle deception. (Genesis 3:1) The deceiver uses partials of God's word to distort, attempting to eventually destroy its entirety within the church. This why Antipas was murdered by those who held the doctrines of both Balaam and the Nicolaitians in the church because this righteous man revealed the deception of the deceiver.

 

[BarlyGurl]

feast of tabernacles... Is the rememberance of the wilderness... Right? Happens in the fall?

 

[just-me]

feast of tabernacles... Is the rememberance of the wilderness... Right? Happens in the fall?

That is correct.
To expand on this, it is a feast that will be observed in the millennial period, and should be studied and recognized today, in the truth of its Spiritual representations thereof. It's fascinating, beautiful, and completely centers around salvation in Christ. When studying this feast (in a greater depth) we see it as a "rehearsal" for the New Testament church. This last feast of the year, according to scripture (not Jewish tradition), brings back to our remembrance, detailed dynamics of all that happened through Christ from the beginning of the year, starting 4 days before the first Passover. The time sequence also involves the "clearing of the money changers in the temple." (Exodus chapter 12 together with Zechariah 14:16-19)

 

[BarlyGurl]

That is correct.
To expand on this, it is a feast that will be observed in the millennial period, and should be studied and recognized today, in the truth of its Spiritual representations thereof. It's fascinating, beautiful, and completely centers around salvation in Christ. When studying this feast (in a greater depth) we see it as a "rehearsal" for the New Testament church. This last feast of the year, according to scripture (not Jewish tradition), brings back to our remembrance, detailed dynamics of all that happened through Christ from the beginning of the year, starting 4 days before the first Passover. The time sequence also involves the "clearing of the money changers in the temple." (Exodus chapter 12 together with Zechariah 14:16-19)

Perhaps you could outline that more fully? My understanding is more basic....being that the tabernacles is a the remembering of being in the wilderness (so we make a simple shelter and live in it without any worldly influences) celebrate the mighty works of the lord thru fellowship, scripture and praise and then affirm Christ as the new covenant who has brought us from captivity and the wilderness of our former lives... in the similar pattern the Father did Israel... and continues to do on our living sojourn.

 

[Magenta]

Perhaps you could outline that more fully? My understanding is more basic....being that the tabernacles is a the remembering of being in the wilderness (so we make a simple shelter and live in it without any worldly influences) celebrate the mighty works of the lord thru fellowship, scripture and praise and then affirm Christ as the new covenant who has brought us from captivity and the wilderness of our former lives... in the similar pattern the Father did Israel... and continues to do on our living sojourn.

I thought the feast of tabernacles was an image of God indwelling us.

 

[just-me]

Perhaps you could outline that more fully? My understanding is more basic....being that the tabernacles is a the remembering of being in the wilderness (so we make a simple shelter and live in it without any worldly influences) celebrate the mighty works of the lord thru fellowship, scripture and praise and then affirm Christ as the new covenant who has brought us from captivity and the wilderness of our former lives... in the similar pattern the Father did Israel... and continues to do on our living sojourn.

You are right on target concerning the relation of historical events with the salvation of Christ Jesus!!!
One cannot summarize the depth of details on this forum, because there is so much more to it. Nevertheless it would be nice to converse about certain things we find in it. Here is a link to a short book I wrote about the 3 feasts. It it is detailed info about Unleavened bread, the feast of weeks, and Tabernacles.

Three Feasts of the Pentateuch

Read a little of it (if you would like) and then we can converse in this thread about this or that. Remember that the foliage used to make booths (tabernacles) are representations of God's grace and protection. Each branch represents a spiritual truth. That's just for starters and this is great! I love talking about God's word, and growing in His grace by His truth.

 

[BarlyGurl]

I thought the feast of tabernacles was an image of God indwelling us.

Hmm... That's interesting... I have never had that perspective. Can you explain more? I have chores... I will be thinking my thinks about this.

>>>> HOLD UP!<<<< I just had an AH HA moment. WE are suposed to be dwelling in CHRIST... REALLY thinking hard thinks NOW!

 

[Magenta]

Hmm... That's interesting... I have never had that perspective. Can you explain more? I have chores... I will be thinking my thinks about this.

I am off to work as well... shall be thinking my thinks on this with you... have a great day!

 

[Magenta]

>>>> HOLD UP!<<<< I just had an AH HA moment. WE are suposed to be dwelling in CHRIST... REALLY thinking hard thinks NOW!

And a quick thought from me before I rush out the door... this is the final feast, the raison d'etre of creation... God calling out a people, we are told He will indwell us, we will never be separated from Him again. The feast begins and ends with a special Sabbath day. He is coming again to dwell among us as Lord of Lords.

 

[just-me]

Hmm... That's interesting... I have never had that perspective. Can you explain more? I have chores... I will be thinking my thinks about this.

>>>> HOLD UP!<<<< I just had an AH HA moment. WE are suposed to be dwelling in CHRIST... REALLY thinking hard thinks NOW!

That's part of it!! May I ask you to start another thread about this particular feast if that's ok with you? The thread title on this thread doesn't accommodate what we are talking about right now. In fact this thread is about dead anyway.

 

[just-me]

And a quick thought from me before I rush out the door... this is the final feast, the raison d'etre of creation... God calling out a people, we are told He will indwell us, we will never be separated from Him again. The feast begins and ends with a special Sabbath day. He is coming again to dwell among us as Lord of Lords.

Nailed it!!! This is great!!! The feast of tabernacles is past, present, and future. IMO it involves everything that is fulfilled in Christ. Not ended, but complete.

 

[BarlyGurl]

That's part of it!! May I ask you to start another thread about this particular feast if that's ok with you? The thread title on this thread doesn't accommodate what we are talking about right now. In fact this thread is about dead anyway.

Err... ok... what should I title the thread I am supposed to start... fer what ever reason you won't do it yourself????

 

[just-me]

Err... ok... what should I title the thread I am supposed to start... fer what ever reason you won't do it yourself????

Lately people do not patronize the threads that I start. I'll PM you about my thoughts concerning that. (smile) I think discussion of the spiritual aspects of tabernacles would be beneficial to everybody in CC.

 

[just-me]

False doctrines revealed. True doctrine revealed. Choose you this day whom you will serve. Joshua 24:15

It is probable that the great majority of church members in America today carry few convictions against breaking at least one of the Ten Commandments. A very insidious doctrine has been developed in both Catholic and Protestant theology, which has tended to minimize the authority of God’s great moral law. It has led many to look lightly upon transgression and has made sin to appear unobjectionable. In fact, sin has lost its horror for multitudes and has become an acceptable mode of life for both youth and adults.

Some very subtle errors of interpretation have crept into the modern church, leading to the present state of confused loyalty toward the law of God. How earnestly we need to look and study its relation to God’s grace and to salvation itself. It is so easy to accept the popular clichés concerning law and grace without searching out the biblical facts by which we will finally be judged. We must find authoritative scriptural answers to questions like these: In what sense are Christians free from the law? What does it mean to be under the law? Does God’s grace nullify the it?

The truth is that “without shedding of blood is no remission. … So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many” (Hebrews 9:22-28).

This is why works can never save the sinner. The penalty for sin is not ten years in prison or fifty years at hard labor. The sentence is death, and the law cannot be satisfied except by the shedding of blood. That unchangeable law with its unrelenting death sentence could no more be removed than the throne of God could be toppled.

Now we are brought to the question that has created confusion for multitudes of Christians: If the works of the law cannot save a person, is it therefore necessary to keep the law? Apparently this was a burning issue in the early church, because Paul asked the same question in Romans 6:1. “Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?” In other words, does grace give us a license to reject and make void the law of God? His answer is: “God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” (verse 2).

 

[LT]

I enjoy reading about the Feasts, and the Tabernacle, and the setup of the Camp. They are all so deeply symbolic.

I suppose the "application" of this information is what we might disagree on.

I see these things as types and shadows that prophesied Christ and the Kingdom, and displayed the silhouette of Heaven itself. I'm sure you view these things the same way.

The issue is, do we continue to place ourselves under the physical types and shadows?
I don't think there is any necessary spiritual harm in using and celebrating the Feasts, as object lessons.
But I also think that making them into a requirement (or some other less harsh version of that word) is the proper attitude to have, in the light of what is revealed already to us in Christ. We no longer need the shadows, even though they remain useful for teaching and rebuking and edifying, etc.

 

[just-me]

I enjoy reading about the Feasts, and the Tabernacle, and the setup of the Camp. They are all so deeply symbolic.

I suppose the "application" of this information is what we might disagree on.

I see these things as types and shadows that prophesied Christ and the Kingdom, and displayed the silhouette of Heaven itself. I'm sure you view these things the same way.

The issue is, do we continue to place ourselves under the physical types and shadows?
I don't think there is any necessary spiritual harm in using and celebrating the Feasts, as object lessons.
But I also think that making them into a requirement (or some other less harsh version of that word) is the proper attitude to have, in the light of what is revealed already to us in Christ. We no longer need the shadows, even though they remain useful for teaching and rebuking and edifying, etc.

The spiritual applications thereof are the forefront of observations concerning the law as a current prerequisite for believers in Christ Jesus to grow in faith thereby. Tabernacles is future as well as present and past.

 

[just-me]

False doctrines revealed. True doctrine revealed. Choose you this day whom you will serve. Joshua 24:15
We cannot earn forgiveness by working hard to obey. Do not stumble over this crucial point. No sinner can gain favor and acceptance with God because he keeps the law. The law was not made for the purpose of saving or justifying. It was made to show us our daily need of cleansing and to point us to the great source of cleansing, Jesus Christ, our Lord. The Bible speaks of the law as a mirror to show us what kind of person we really are. “For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed” (James 1:23-25).

It is obvious that a mirror cannot remove a spot from the face. Looking into the mirror all day, and fervently rubbing the face, will not provide any real spiritual cleansing. Its work is to reveal the spot and to point the dirty one to the sink of living water for actual cleansing. The law, in like manner, can only reveal our sins by giving us the true knowledge of our condition and then pointing us to the cross for true cleansing. “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Paul further emphasizes this point in Galatians 2:16: “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ … for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”

Right here we must consider one of the most fallacious propositions ever set forth relating to the law. Countless sincere Christians have accepted the idea that the Old Testament encompasses the dispensation of works and that the New Testament provides for a dispensation of grace. Under this garbled plan people were saved by works in the Old Testament and by grace in the New Testament. This is simply not true.

Some try to dispose of the law of God, the basis being that the “new” commandments of love are what Christ introduced. It is certainly true that Jesus laid down two great laws of love as a summary of all the law, but did He give the idea that these were new in point of time? The fact is that He was quoting directly from the Old Testament when He gave those new commandments.

 

[LT]

How Faith is to be expressed under the New Covenant is a very interesting topic.
It is where the stagnant rules and regulations meet situational ethics.
It is where absolute morals meet abstract morals.
It is where principle overrides procedure, and precept overrides praxis.