No you miss the point . No one could be regenerated until after the resurrection of Jesus . So before the resurrection no one could be regenerated. Now because this is critical to your calvinism you cannot accept this ,otherwise you would have to question your position . Which wont be an overnight process. But I hope you will begin to consider the major flaws in your world view of reformed theology.
No one helplessly falls away from Christ - it's a choice
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Ok here's your passage:
Rom 8:18-25
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
KJV
Comment: I see no evidence that Paul ever fell away from Christ, after he was converted on that road, on the way to persecute Christians. Romans is a difficult book, I know. To me, your passage here, means: That though God's people must suffer hardships in this life, it isn't worth comparing it with the eternal joy they'll have in heaven after this life. God has allowed us to suffer such hardships, because of His hope and plan for us all to end up in heaven if we remain faithful to Him. We "groan" in our wish to be free of our fleshly bodies and their weaknesses, and to be in heaven where we'll suffer none of this. The hope of eternity in heaven for humans was not made possible until Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world. A person who has no hope of getting to heaven - isn't able to end up in heaven - unless or until he comes to have that hope in this life, before he dies, at least. It is well worth being patient in waiting for our eternity in heaven, once we get saved, and in doing so, have the confidence that this is where they'll end up if they remain faithful to God to the end of their life.
Rom 8:18-25
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
KJV
Comment: I see no evidence that Paul ever fell away from Christ, after he was converted on that road, on the way to persecute Christians. Romans is a difficult book, I know. To me, your passage here, means: That though God's people must suffer hardships in this life, it isn't worth comparing it with the eternal joy they'll have in heaven after this life. God has allowed us to suffer such hardships, because of His hope and plan for us all to end up in heaven if we remain faithful to Him. We "groan" in our wish to be free of our fleshly bodies and their weaknesses, and to be in heaven where we'll suffer none of this. The hope of eternity in heaven for humans was not made possible until Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world. A person who has no hope of getting to heaven - isn't able to end up in heaven - unless or until he comes to have that hope in this life, before he dies, at least. It is well worth being patient in waiting for our eternity in heaven, once we get saved, and in doing so, have the confidence that this is where they'll end up if they remain faithful to God to the end of their life.
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Israel had to wander the desert for 40 years because they questioned God's ability to destroy their enemy. If they listened to Gideon they would have entered the promised land without their trip through he desert.
God told them they would wander in the desert a year for every day they scouted the promised land. So if you ask why, it was because of disobedience.
God told them they would wander in the desert a year for every day they scouted the promised land. So if you ask why, it was because of disobedience.
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James is about a claimed faith not about real faith. I have no problem interpreting James. James agreed with Paul. Those saved by faith are created anew for good works. They will NOT be hearers if the word not doers as those in James were
As for Hebrews
Again the question is IF they fall away. It does not say they can it is saying if they do (is it possible) well if it is. The author of Hebrews makes it clear they can never be re-saved again they would be lost forever. It is in his words @ImPossible to renew them to repentance”
So I point you to John. Where he said one born of avid can. It sin. Whoever sins have never seen if known God. And how they departed From us but they were never if us
I can’t lose eternal life. If I could it was never eternal Life
However. I can think I have faith (James 2) think I have salvation think I am saved. But I am still a dog. Who will always return to his Vomit (Never have been saved)
James is about a claimed faith not about real faith. I have no problem interpreting James. James agreed with Paul. Those saved by faith are created anew for good works. They will NOT be hearers if the word not doers as those in James were
As for Hebrews
Again the question is IF they fall away. It does not say they can it is saying if they do (is it possible) well if it is. The author of Hebrews makes it clear they can never be re-saved again they would be lost forever. It is in his words @ImPossible to renew them to repentance”
So I point you to John. Where he said one born of avid can. It sin. Whoever sins have never seen if known God. And how they departed From us but they were never if us
I can’t lose eternal life. If I could it was never eternal Life
However. I can think I have faith (James 2) think I have salvation think I am saved. But I am still a dog. Who will always return to his Vomit (Never have been saved)
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True - all those who sincerely and wholeheartedly and prayerfully serve God in daily life, and have been tried and shown to be lastingly faithful to God, are guaranteed a home in heaven after this life, as a result of Jesus' death on the cross. But many Christians who are not fully surrendered to God and fail to become so later will fall away (lose interest and devotion towards God) with time - as can be seen in the Sower parable. And the Bible has many verses that show it is possible to fall away for some Christians. Otherwise the Bible wouldn't mention that possibility. A person can't fall away unless they are recognized by God as being a true believer. It isn't possible to fall away from something if it never existed.
This seems to contradict your #78 post.
Verse 21 does not say "heaven". It says "the kingdom of heaven" which has reference to the church. The scriptures use several names to describe the church that Jesus established, such as; Zion, the church in the wilderness, the church of Christ, the kingdom of God, the church of the first born, the church of God, the new Jerusalem, etc. The visible church has some restrictions in their discipline that the gates of heaven does not. There is an invisible church, which includes all of God's elect, and there is a visible church made up of those elect that have been revealed, by the Holy Spirit within them, the truths of the doctrine of Jesus.(Ezek 10). If it were a requirement to do God's will to enter into eternal heaven, then it would be "eternal salvation by our good works".
Verse 21 does not say "heaven". It says "the kingdom of heaven" which has reference to the church. The scriptures use several names to describe the church that Jesus established, such as; Zion, the church in the wilderness, the church of Christ, the kingdom of God, the church of the first born, the church of God, the new Jerusalem, etc. The visible church has some restrictions in their discipline that the gates of heaven does not. There is an invisible church, which includes all of God's elect, and there is a visible church made up of those elect that have been revealed, by the Holy Spirit within them, the truths of the doctrine of Jesus.(Ezek 10). If it were a requirement to do God's will to enter into eternal heaven, then it would be "eternal salvation by our good works".
I believe that passage in Hebrews does not mean there is no hope of a Christian who has turned away from Christ, can't return to Him through repentance. The wording of the Bible is sometimes difficult. But it helps to compare verses on a subject to better avoid an incorrect interpretation. And to realize that the scriptures never contradict themselves, as they are all true. So if one verse seems to contradict another - a good method is, as I said - to compare scriptures on a subject, before arriving at a final conclusion. God's Word says that God forgives all sincere repentance - so that makes it clear to me that He does;
1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
KJV
1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
KJV
You say ///all those who sincerely and wholeheartedly and prayerfully serve God in daily life, and have been tried and shown to be lastingly faithful to God, are guaranteed a home in heaven after this life, as a result of Jesus' death on the cross. /// Do see the contraction here ? How is a person saved ? is it by being sincere , wholeheartedly serve God , daily , with prayers . Being tried ,demonstrating faithfulness to God ? Or are we saved by Jesus death , burial and resurrection?
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I don't see the word, "sealed' as always necessarily speaking of a Christian who has reached full surrender to God. I see the verse show up in my Bible software in a number of New Testament books. But I see lots of warnings throughout the books against falling away. So the term "sealed" - I believe - refers to a true Christian - but not necessarily that none of them are capable of falling away. It's a choice to fall away - never helplessly happens.
Rom 8:15-16
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
KJV
The ones who fell away in the Sower parable are examples of some who were at first sincere - but who later willingly fell away - had a change of mind for the worse
Rom 8:15-16
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
KJV
The ones who fell away in the Sower parable are examples of some who were at first sincere - but who later willingly fell away - had a change of mind for the worse
We are saved by accepting Jesus as Savior and Lord - and through sincere repentance. That part is short and simple. But just as the people of Israel were saved out of slavery in Egypt - but later - many of them failed to please God and also wished they could return to Egypt - the same thing can happen to new believers, if they do not prayerfully choose to remain faithful to God in daily life.