No trust in Creation...no trust in Genesis....no trust in Scriptures...

[fredjames]

God's purpose in giving us Genesis 1 was to demonstrate that He had created and prepared the earth in readiness to receive living creatures and man (yoms 1-3), and then that He had set over it those who would rule it and use it.

Thus in yom 1 God created light and defined it as yom, and then in yom 4 God set rulers over light so as to determine the length of 'yoms' for mankind and living creatures. This in itself makes clear that God's yoms are not limited in time (they were unruled in an earthly sense). In yom 2 God prepared atmosphere and sea, and in yom 5 He populated atmosphere and sea, in yom 3 He made the land appear and provided vegetation, and in yom 6 He created life which would live on the land and partake of the vegetation. God's blessing of the living creatures and man in His own words resulted in their procreation. It is all presented in a carefully laid out pattern. The pattern is not to be overpressed. Birds and fish needed vegetation, and birds needed dry land. But the idea of God providing, and then establishing rule over, is clear.

Having matched everything up He then declared it 'very good' for its purpose. The purpose of the seventh yom was to indicate that all was completed. And there is no mention of its cessation. God's creative work was finished. There would be no eighth yom. This in itself confirms that we are not to see this as an earthly 'week'. It is in terms of God's yoms, unruled by earthly phenomena, carried out in accord with His purpose. It is not scientific. It is not mythical. It is practical.

Indeed the folly of trying to make it fit man's view of time is that we do know that time is not fixed except to those living on earth. When there was no earth it was not fixed. Time is totally different to any who move at the speed of light. God's yoms are His own length determined by Himself. They bear no relation to man's yoms. Thus to God a yom is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a yom. Thus it is as foolish to call a yom a 24 hour period, as it is to call it 1000 years. To God it is both and neither.

As it is written, 'Men and women created in HIS 'image' of 'governing', as HIS given Word/Teaching to 'subdue' and allow to 'multiply' after it's kind, period. And this was HIS simple 'instructions' in the 'beginning'.

Saved people, please 'distinguish' as you are 'learned' and are 'spiritual', where 'creation' without GOD have 'evolved' until today through the 'unsaved'.

Very sad that they all need and we need 'reminders' and 'our memories stirred up' from the Gospel of Salvation and who have 'learned as HIS redeemed people', to 'turn back' to GOD in 'practice' and 'abiding' and 'bear much fruit' and 'our fruit must also abide', through 'spiritual knowledge' and 'spiritual knowledge actions', in order in the 'hope' of the 'set future', GOD will to 'create' a 'new Heaven and a new earth' for all of us who have 'faithfully acted and lived as it is written them of the New Covenant/Testament', to 'occupy' with HIM reigning as our LORD, GOD and KING, forever and ever. Amen.

 

[fredjames]

This is speaking on GOD Creating. Everything that was made was made by HIM and for HIM. We are way past Genesis. Actually we are in Revelation. If we were still in Genesis we would not be waitingon JESUS 2nd Return but HIS 1st.

Blessings!!!!!!!

To Christians it is our still in the flesh/carnal/flesh's passions and desires and remain as 'babes in CHRIST', that is 'hostile' to GOD, and the HOLY SPIRIT is waring and grieving because of us, because of our necessity and pleasures of this earth and also our fruit never ripen, all mentioned 'as it is written', for us and not the world. There is no 'reason' everything to blame it all on satan as 'believers of CHRIST of the New Covenant, when the 'epistle' of Jude reminds and stir up our memory, not to 'insult' satan. That is also 'lawlessness'.

Are we 'gloomy' and 'sad' that we are not able to do what GOD calls us to do, or 'joy' and 'excited' in our HOLY SPIRIT 'distributed gifts', in 'pleasure' debating and challenging one another who is 'great in the Kingdom of GOD', and who is 'here' still and who is 'not'?

GOD bless you all in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

 

[Dan_473]

Recently I have been doing some street work with young folks and a constant theme with them, is that they are bombarded in school, college and the media in general ( see EVERY NATURAL HISTORY PROGRAM ON THE TV) with the theory that the world evolved. This leads them then to diss any idea of a creation based history of the world and therefore a disbelief in the book of Genesis as the truth of God's word. Once you compromise on Genesis, you compromise on the basic principles of our faith....sin entering the world as a result of man's disobedience, death as a result of sin, mans separation from God and the need for salvation, Satan as a reality, marriage between a man and a women etc.
In My opinion a rejection of creation is possibly Satan's greatest achievement and one which he has successfully propagated throughout history......
Many Christians state that A belief in Creation is not something to get too "worked up about" as it is not really a "salvation matter"......I beg to differ. It is possibly the biggest stumbling block to the non christians ability to see their need for Salvation ......
evolution is Satanic in origin and must be tackled everywhere it is encountered!!

interesting title to the thread...

if you trust in the scriptures, you end up with a small dilemma which, imo, can become large really fast...

which scriptures?

I think it's the church that picked the scriptures... which makes sense if the church is "the pillar and ground of the truth."

this makes sense to me because the church is the body of Christ... and makes sense to trust in it...

 

[valiant]

interesting title to the thread...

if you trust in the scriptures, you end up with a small dilemma which, imo, can become large really fast...

which scriptures?

I think it's the church that picked the scriptures... which makes sense if the church is "the pillar and ground of the truth."

this makes sense to me because the church is the body of Christ... and makes sense to trust in it...

No the church did not 'pick the Scriptures'. God chose its authors and they were acknowledged on that basis. The church simply later accepted His decision.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

interesting title to the thread...

if you trust in the scriptures, you end up with a small dilemma which, imo, can become large really fast...

which scriptures?

I think it's the church that picked the scriptures... which makes sense if the church is "the pillar and ground of the truth."

this makes sense to me because the church is the body of Christ... and makes sense to trust in it...

This is dangerous, because it becomes which church. As we see from what happened to the jews, even the priesthood which lasted from the time of moses was in error. and could not keep it right. So we should not just trust a particular church because they said they were the first.

The argument becames, But our fathers etc etc.

And the answer is all the same

Before abraham/the early church fathers were, I AM!!

 

[JackRT]

Then why do they turn them off when they fly over the ocean

They don't.

 

[Dan_473]

No the church did not 'pick the Scriptures'. God chose its authors and they were acknowledged on that basis. The church simply later accepted His decision.

"were acknowledged" I think is the key... I've read that the list of nt books in general use today first appears in a.d. 385...

 

[Dan_473]

This is dangerous, because it becomes which church. As we see from what happened to the jews, even the priesthood which lasted from the time of moses was in error. and could not keep it right. So we should not just trust a particular church because they said they were the first.

The argument becames, But our fathers etc etc.

And the answer is all the same

Before abraham/the early church fathers were, I AM!!

not a particular church... the church... there's only one...

but yes,

"Before abraham/the early church fathers were, I AM!!"

I agree with that! the focus is on Jesus!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

not a particular church... the church... there's only one...

but yes,

"Before abraham/the early church fathers were, I AM!!"

I agree with that! the focus is on Jesus!

ye there is only one, and it has many faces. and many names. and is many stages of maturity,

I fear because when one claims we must listen to "the church" they pic a particualar one sand say they are it. and end up being men followers and not God followers.

 

[valiant]

"were acknowledged" I think is the key... I've read that the list of nt books in general use today first appears in a.d. 385...

but they were acknowledged on the basis of Apostolic authorship or influence. The problem was that some minor books were so little known that churches who had no knowledge of them needed evidence that they were genuinely Apostolic.


However the basic books of the New Testament - the four Gospels, Acts, Paul's letters, 1 Peter and 1 John (which may have included their second letters also) were acknowledged from the beginning because in the first days men knew their source. No one put a stamp on the Gospels. The four Gospels were simply recognised because of their authorship. Irenaeus (late 2nd century AD) quoted from all the New Testament books but one. HE recognised their authority, NOT BECAUSE THE CHURCH HAD SAID SO, but because of their authorship.

These councils just confirmed what was already known.

I don't accept the canon because the church said so. I do it because of the quality and source of the writings.

 

[Dan_473]

ye there is only one, and it has many faces. and many names. and is many stages of maturity,

I fear because when one claims we must listen to "the church" they pic a particualar one sand say they are it. and end up being men followers and not God followers.

very true! it's just that, when a person picks a particular scripture set, which was picked by a particular group, they are in the same boat... imo...

 

[flob]

You're assuming we never have answers. We do have answers. And we're always open to the idea that our answers might be wrong, or partially wrong. We demand evidence though.

Who is 'we'?

It's also true that I have never eaten a shoe, though I couldn't ever actually prove that truth (this truth only exists in an abstract form).

To the contrary:
you know it's true nonabstractly

Evolution is true because it's been verified by evidence. And if it's ever proven that evolution isn't true (which would be nearly impossible at this point), then what we thought to be true was wrong. Our perception of the truth was incorrect.

Lol.
If you think Evolution's been verified, then feel welcome to provide one piece of verification here. Just one (to start). Maybe your best piece.

So a better question to ask is, "If you can't ever know anything for sure, why bother knowing anything at all?" The answer is simple. Because the world isn't black and white. Some things are more right than others, without being entirely right. Other things may be more wrong than others without being entirely wrong. How wrong or right we have to be depends on the situation, but relative correctness works. And the more we use science, the more accurate we become.

Is that relative.................or 'verified'?
'More accurate'............................or 'verified'?

The sooner Christians stop compromising and start believing the foundations of the Bible, being the book of Genesis and that it's literal history, the sooner non-Christians can see the Bible is consistent and that it can be trusted.


A literal interpretation of the Bible is less consistent with reality than a metaphorical interpretation. Trust me.

It is possible that you're as ignorant of the Bible as you are of Evolution

Trust me, Christians who begin to doubt the literal interpretation of the Bible are far more likely to accept a metaphorical interpretation than they are to lose their faith all together. If creationism became as solid a premise for being a Christian than accepting Jesus as the Lord and Savior, then you'll start losing even the metaphorical interpreters.

It's true that the allegorical interpretation of much of the Old Testament, as Genesis' description of creation, is far more important than----and indeed the very purpose of----the account in the first place. But that doesn't annul the literal, or 'scientific,' account. Just like the real light being Christ, does not annul the physicality of physical light

As for being consistent as a means of convincing non-believers creationism is true, that's unlikely. Those who are skeptical of religion won't find the Christian's universal literal interpretation to be any more convincing. In fact, it would make the idea of the Bible LESS convincing.

Yes YECism seems to do the very thing it purports to fight against---misinterpret the Bible in a certain basic way----as well as focus unbelievers' attention on both man's science as well as man's purported 'science,' namely the powerful ideology and mythology of Evolution theory

 

[Tintin]

Yes YECism seems to do the very thing it purports to fight against---misinterpret the Bible in a certain basic way----as well as focus unbelievers' attention on both man's science as well as man's purported 'science,' namely the powerful ideology and mythology of Evolution theory

You know nothing of biblical creation if you believe that to be true. Biblical creation is only the logical, reasonable, consistent conclusion we come to by reading the Bible plainly, from a historical and grammatical perspective.

 

[fredjames]

Good gravy, Fred. You might want to do some research on creation and evolution before saying such things.

Please dear 'gravy lover', before you teach others what to do, why haven't you done a simple research between, 'animation' and 'reality'. You are living in your 'animation dream world' and act like one.

JESUS said;

"Why do you call me good. None is good but GOD."

In your 'animation hollywood christian world' you may even call a 'gravy' good and also use the same on many other things as well. There is no shame or remorse and that is why i do not 'discuss' with 'outsider' like you, because we have nothing in common.

if you think you know better about 'creation' and 'evolution', why don't you post your own reply to this tread. Why are you trying to get 'even' and 'personal'? Each attempt you only dig your own grave deeper and deeper 'laddie'.

Because Grace has been shown to me a wretched person, therefore i forgive you and may the, none is Good but GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST bless you.

 

[kedge]

not a particular church... the church... there's only one.

Which church would that be?

 

[Tintin]

Please dear 'gravy lover', before you teach others what to do, why haven't you done a simple research between, 'animation' and 'reality'. You are living in your 'animation dream world' and act like one.

JESUS said;

"Why do you call me good. None is good but GOD."

In your 'animation hollywood christian world' you may even call a 'gravy' good and also use the same on many other things as well. There is no shame or remorse and that is why i do not 'discuss' with 'outsider' like you, because we have nothing in common.

if you think you know better about 'creation' and 'evolution', why don't you post your own reply to this tread. Why are you trying to get 'even' and 'personal'? Each attempt you only dig your own grave deeper and deeper 'laddie'.

Because Grace has been shown to me a wretched person, therefore i forgive you and may the, none is Good but GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST bless you.

Yep, you're five Fruit Loops short of a box of cereal. And I post about creation and evolution all the time on CC. Just take a look around here.

 

[fredjames]

Yep, you're five Fruit Loops short of a box of cereal. And I post about creation and evolution all the time on CC. Just take a look around here.

That is why it is true we have 'nothing' in common regarding 'faith' through 'spiritual knowledge of the HOLY BIBLE. For mine are unworthily simple, through mostly HOLY BIBLE references and yours are worthily fancy, including science and logic knowledge of this world.

Therefore you belong to this world's Christianity, and the world will love you, but the world hates me, as they hated LORD JESUS CHRIST first, because i tell them the 'wicked' things that they do.

i testify 'truthfully' this because you have disbelieve in me. For you have the 'yeast' of the Pharisee in you, to even challenge GOD's least important unworthy servants. For you are like those 'prowlers', always looking for an opportunity to get rid by hook or crook people you don't like.

Unmerited favor have been shown to me, therefore again i forgive you and may GOD forgive and bless you too in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

By the way, i have a 'prophecy' for you. If you continue in the same manner and not repent, your saviour is coming soon, and he is the 'beast'. For on that day GOD will send a strong delusion on those who have not welcomed the Gospel. Meaning even so called Christian who have not welcomed them in 'spiritual context knowledge' of the New Covenant/Testament faith and acted them in faith, by practicing them and abiding in them and bear much fruit and their fruit must abide.

Laugh all you want from your 'seat' because of GOD's unmerited favor for now, but GOD laughs in Heaven at the foolish things that people do by going on ahead, 'ignorant' to HIS Salvation and HIS Covenant of safety.

As it is written;

"You cannot give what is Good and Holy to dogs, for it will only turn around and bite you."

"Your worst enemy will be in your own household."

 

[Dan_473]

Which church would that be?

my bad... I was thinking of this passage "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all"

I was thinking it said "one church"...

still, there is this "For as the body is one, and has many members, and all the members of the body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all given to drink into one Spirit."

so, one body... for me, the question is who is in that body? for me, the answer is whoever believes in Jesus.

 

[Budman]

Yes Young Earth Creationism is definitely the work of Satan.

You really have nothing better to do with your life than to keep popping in here under various usernames?


Sad.

 

[valiant]

"were acknowledged" I think is the key... I've read that the list of nt books in general use today first appears in a.d. 385...

nope wrong date LOL Rome wants you to believe that. Try the Council of Ephesus.

But Irenaeus in 2nd century AD quotes from all the books but one, and that one an unquotable one. So he clearly had those books as Scripture long before the Council of Ephesus.

The Council of Ephesus was simply tying up loose ends.

The churches accepted as Scripture from the beginning the four Gospels, Acts, Paul's letters, Peter, John, and Jude. The other books simply hadn't reached some of them.