Non-ending misconceptions about the reformed faith
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God love you Lynn...you are an equal opportunity insulter to those that have a different opinion then you do. I have even seen you insult yourself a few times.
I told you - I asked the Lord to be near you when we go to heaven. We are going to have a lot of fun together.
Bless you...
I told you - I asked the Lord to be near you when we go to heaven. We are going to have a lot of fun together.
Bless you...
An old saying from my days in rehab -- Don't just talk the talk. Walk the walk.
I see you talk about things you don't walk in. Sadly, you have absolutely no idea how often you insulted me in the space of four days. And I'm just one of many. Many many!
Ok.. I do not know what to say, because I am not from any of those countries I think that the German theology (of the older age) was the top of systematics in the world. If you read Leibniz, you know what I mean.
The Czech one was more to the practical life, like Moravian brothers, Unity fratrum etc.
If you mix this, you will get - me
I think that the German theology (of the older age) was the top of systematics in the world. If you read Leibniz, you know what I mean.The Czech one was more to the practical life, like Moravian brothers, Unity fratrum etc.
If you mix this, you will get - me
That's exactly what it is not saying, it's what people that don't understand it, say it is saying. The offer of the Gospel is to everyone. In that all men have a choice to chose Christ or not. Christ died for the world and it's sin, the effect is on those that believe. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Notice God loved the world in that He gave His only begotten Son, that is how He loved the world. Notice the limit of the verse, whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. It's only effective for those that believe. The words for "that whoever believes" in the Greek "pas ho pisteuōn" or "πᾶς ó πιστεύων" "that whoever believes", receive the effect of the atonement. Someone that knows Greek can verify if this is correct or not, some translate "pas ho pisteuōn" or "πᾶς ó πιστεύων" in this context as "the believing ones" or "every believing one". I think we can agree that the limit of this verse is in, "that whoever believes" or "the believing ones", "every believing one", not to those that don't beieve or not believing ones. Those that believe are the elect, the proof, they believe. God never predestines anyone to hell and the choice of the Gospel is to be presented or preached to all humans, with no distinction. The commission is not to search for the elect and preach to them, it is to preach to every creature, Mark 16:15. So #5 does not violate the why of the Gospel. So that no human is with the excuse I never heard.
John 6:37 "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." Some will say I'm reading this out of context, that Jesus is talk about the elect only, yes, but could it be His desire that all would be saved as well?
Notice that those that the Father gives will come to Jesus, no doubt about it those that the Father gives they will come. Also notice that Jesus say, whoever comes to me I will never cast out. This is His desire that all men be saved and if they make the choice to come to him, they will be saved, because He will not refuse them. No one that I know of has ever said that if someone believes that they will not be saved. The guarantee is that the elect will be saved and those that believe or receive, no one is ever cast out. I believe that those that believe are the elect, but either way they believe. As I've said before I'm not Reformed or Calvinist, but I believe in the Doctrines of Grace, because they are Biblical and for no other reason. I've been called undisciplined here because I mentioned that I would not that a membership class to be come a member of a Church that asked if I would be a part of the ministry. Because I do not agree with a lot of what Reformed/Calvinist Churches teach on secondary issues, outside of "order salutes" or "order of salvation". So maybe I'm not the best one to say what Reformed or Calvinists teach, but when I explain what I believe everyone says I'm a Calvinist or Reformed.
So the Scriptures that show that God does not predestine those to hell. Ezekiel 18:23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’ God's desire I Timothy 2:1-6, God not wanting II Peter 3:9, God's call Acts 17:30, Man's response Romans 3:3-4 and Hebrews 3:16-19, John 3:17-20, men chose not to follow God and God calls them to repent or be saved, His desire is that they would and He is not willing that they any perish. He does not predestine to hell, men make that choice on their own, because they love darkness and hate the light, they don't come so their wickedness will not be exposed.
The Greek word for word translation.
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top, width: 17%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 20%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Morphology[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3779 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Houtōs[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Οὕτως[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]thus[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1063 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]gar[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]γὰρ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]indeed[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]25 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ēgapēsen[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἠγάπησεν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]loved[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-AIA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ho[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὁ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2316 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Theos[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Θεὸς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]God[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ton[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2889 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]kosmon[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]κόσμον,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]world,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5620 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hōste[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὥστε[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]that[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ton[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5207 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Huion[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Υἱὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]Son,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ton[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3439 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]monogenē[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]μονογενῆ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]only begotten,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1325 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]edōken[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔδωκεν,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]he gave,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-AIA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2443 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hina[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἵνα[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]that[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3956 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pas[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πᾶς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]everyone[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ho[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὁ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4100 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pisteuōn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πιστεύων[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]believing[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PPA-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1519 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]eis[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]εἰς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]in[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]846 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]auton[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αὐτὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]him,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-AM3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3361 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]mē[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]μὴ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]not[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]622 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]apolētai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀπόληται[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]should perish,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-ASM-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]235 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]all’[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀλλ’[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]but[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2192 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]echē[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔχῃ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]might have[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PSA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2222 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]zōēn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ζωὴν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]life[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-AFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]166 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]aiōnion[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αἰώνιον.[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]eternal.[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-AFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
It means the world, it doesn't mean the elect, the elect are, that whoever believes, no more no less. People have made this confusing, because of some hyper-Calvinists interpretation of this verse, wanting to make it fit their doctrine. The doctrines of grace are there you just need to find them or let the Spirit show you them. We don't need to make verses say something that they are not saying.
I would think it was the “way” he loved the whole corrupted, aging dying world and not just those who practice Christianity as their world. Some where Buddhist, some Atheist.etc (all the false religions of the world ) The key is the word gave not offered. As many as the father gave the Son they alone will come according to His will, and those who do come as he draws them giving them a desire to please Him will acknowledge the work of Him drawing us. He will in no way cast them out. Free will to a believer is to do the will of another, as we eat our daily bread it make it possible. It’s the kind of food the world knows not of. Without it we perish.
1Jo 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. (All have sinned)
It seems some forget. .Chrsit is one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases. Since it is Christ who causes the new birth and growth He the one that can make our stony hearts soft as he performs that appointed to us. I would think if that is repulsive and cannot believe he creates new creatures by a work of His faith then perhaps he is not doing the work of drawing them.
We chose Him as he gives us a living desire to make it possible. No food of his will, no eating.
Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him.For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me: Job 23:12
1Jo 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. (All have sinned)
It seems some forget. .Chrsit is one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases. Since it is Christ who causes the new birth and growth He the one that can make our stony hearts soft as he performs that appointed to us. I would think if that is repulsive and cannot believe he creates new creatures by a work of His faith then perhaps he is not doing the work of drawing them.
We chose Him as he gives us a living desire to make it possible. No food of his will, no eating.
Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him.For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me: Job 23:12
LOL Hey Sis you have your shotgun loaded for bear, I guess that should be rifle, oh well. There have to many misrepresentations of the Doctrines of Grace here and people have been told it's of the devil so they really don't want to study it because people have told them is dangerous. When it's the Bible, it reminds me of when I was a new believer someone said watch out that you don't read to much Bible you might get confused, what.
The Bible reveals truth, not confusion.
The Bible reveals truth, not confusion.
I can agree with this. That all men have the choice to believe when confronted with the gospel. God doesn't chose for them to not believe and thus condemn them to hell for His own choice. It is their own choice. Sadly not all will believe as the scriptures clearly show.
This is where universalism is wrong. There is a vast difference between a universal atonement and universalism.
The universal atonement can be seen in a picture of the 2 thieves on the cross - Christ identifying with all the world. They were crucified with Christ. One believed - the other one didn't.
One must believe the message of Christ in order to receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness. Rom. 5:17
In my view #5 does violate the "why" of the gospel if it is saying that God chooses for people to go to hell by not allowing them their free choice to believe in Christ.
The "why" of the gospel in the first place is the love of God equally for all people of the world. That is the whole reason for the gospel in the first place.
Am I missing something? If I say it means "world" does that mean I'm not saying the whole world? I'm not getting what you are saying. I never said anything about Jews or anything about not obeying the Word of God. This is how people misunderstand what is being said, they read the post with the glasses of their belief, instead of reading the post for what it is, no hidden message or agenda.
World means world, not Jewish world, not unbelieving world, not saved world, it simply means world. No hidden message or special meaning.
World means world, not Jewish world, not unbelieving world, not saved world, it simply means world. No hidden message or special meaning.
Everyone goes to hell because they chose to, not because God predestine them to go there. He calls all men to repent everywhere with out distinction. The sad part is that we are slaves to our sins and as John 3:18-20 say we love darkness rather than light because we love our wickedness and hate Jesus. Verse 21 those that come to the light is to show that God accomplished it not us. “But anyone who lives by the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be shown to be accomplished by God.” HCSB
I would say it's not my faith, it's His grace that saved me, as a result I trust (have faith) that because I repentance that He will save me from the judgement of hell. His grace, John 6:63, 65 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” Nice picture of the trinity as well, Jesus I, the Spirit and the Father are in those verses.
I would say it's not my faith, it's His grace that saved me, as a result I trust (have faith) that because I repentance that He will save me from the judgement of hell. His grace, John 6:63, 65 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life....65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” Nice picture of the trinity as well, Jesus I, the Spirit and the Father are in those verses.
Of course one needs to believe to be saved, what you should also know is that no one can come to Jesus if the Father doesn't draw him through the holy spirit first.
John 6:44King James Version (KJV)
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
No man truly means no man, if you believe the Father draws everyone you're wrong, cause Jesus clearly says he will raise him up on the last day, if the Father drew everyone, everyone would be saved.
John 6:44King James Version (KJV)
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
No man truly means no man, if you believe the Father draws everyone you're wrong, cause Jesus clearly says he will raise him up on the last day, if the Father drew everyone, everyone would be saved.