Nondenominational

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mikeuk

Guest
#81
The short answer to this is I don't know which is why I said I would consider attending one to "test the waters". I'm sure there are good and bad nondenoms but I admit I do like the idea of them.
Really interested to hear how you get on.

I suspect but do not know, it ends up being the theology of the teaching pastor that prevails, so whilst claiming to be non dom, they actually reflect the one who started it, so become a minidenomination of their own!. I was talking to someone about a non dom in the US where one day they did the full "go and make peace" before the eucharist, which was very well received, then more or less ignored the eucharist for months after that. Sometimes they did baptisms, but then sometimes "altar calls"...whatever they are, never seen one of them in the bible!, or in the early church fathers. It blew hot and cold as the whims of the pastor took it...

But I am interested to know.
 
Dec 26, 2014
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#82
The only name that should really matter to us is JESUS. Why can we not preach JESUS together and let God be God? Humility is one of the three words we lack the most. LOVE, RESPECT and HUMILITY are the only words we can use when preaching yet these are the three words we lack the most. You cannot preach to others and lack even a single one of these words.
does e-l-f-3 "elf3" refer to something not like below ? (with a positive hope in the affirmative)

the 'general' use of the word elf is like below. (i.e. not biblically sound or helpful)

in simple search i found this :

An elf is a mythological creature, originally from Germanic mythology.
Elf may also refer to:

 
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MadParrotWoman

Guest
#83
Really interested to hear how you get on.

I suspect but do not know, it ends up being the theology of the teaching pastor that prevails, so whilst claiming to be non dom, they actually reflect the one who started it, so become a minidenomination of their own!. I was talking to someone about a non dom in the US where one day they did the full "go and make peace" before the eucharist, which was very well received, then more or less ignored the eucharist for months after that. Sometimes they did baptisms, but then sometimes "altar calls"...whatever they are, never seen one of them in the bible!, or in the early church fathers. It blew hot and cold as the whims of the pastor took it...

But I am interested to know.
Well you won't hear how I got on because as I've already said there are no nondenoms in my city.
 
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MadParrotWoman

Guest
#84
does e-l-f-3 "elf3" refer to something not like below ? (with a positive hope in the affirmative)

the 'general' use of the word elf is like below. (i.e. not biblically sound or helpful)

in simple search i found this :

An elf is a mythological creature, originally from Germanic mythology.
Elf may also refer to:

I think elf is so called in reference to his height. I'm not sure what the "3" is about though lol.
 
Dec 26, 2014
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#85
a non-denom church might have a start in life, at least, as it's a start just to get set free from the complete and total error and abomination that is the mass and the eucharist in the rcc catechism, practices and doctrines of demons.

the proof of the antichrist nature beginning and continuing in the rcc already fills libraries, and there's not enough concern, time, space, or love of the truth here to even start to repeat it.

those who want to know can find out without very much trouble at all, IF and ONLY IF they seek the TRUTH from YAHWEH(GOD).

i.e. no hope for life for those who trust in the pope, or billy g.(who got in bed with the pope about 1947 and was reprimanded for it(or chastised/warned to repent by men of God) (but he never repented, so he was never forgiven, by his own words broadcast recently on tv , live, in person) ) , or 'flesh' in any other man anywhere.....


one or two starting points for those seeking the TRUTH, free, online : keith green's "the catholic chronicles" and charles chiniquoy's "fifty years in the church of rome".


I was hoping for an answer to a serious question.

How does a non denominational church function?

With all the differenc interpretations on (for example) baptism and eucharist, do they avoid such things entirely? And in avoiding them can they claim to be Christian?

How can such churches accomodate such polarised views?
 
Dec 26, 2014
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#86
I think elf is so called in reference to his height. I'm not sure what the "3" is about though lol.
COOL! at least glad to hear if it's no reference to mythological stuff... (haven't seen any remark about it and it's been a question i've had for a few weeks...)

maybe 3 generations? just guessing....
 
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MadParrotWoman

Guest
#87
a non-denom church might have a start in life, at least, as it's a start just to get set free from the complete and total error and abomination that is the mass and the eucharist in the rcc catechism, practices and doctrines of demons.

the proof of the antichrist nature beginning and continuing in the rcc already fills libraries, and there's not enough concern, time, space, or love of the truth here to even start to repeat it.

those who want to know can find out without very much trouble at all, IF and ONLY IF they seek the TRUTH from YAHWEH(GOD).

i.e. no hope for life for those who trust in the pope, or billy g.(who got in bed with the pope about 1947 and was reprimanded for it(or chastised/warned to repent by men of God) (but he never repented, so he was never forgiven, by his own words broadcast recently on tv , live, in person) ) , or 'flesh' in any other man anywhere.....




one or two starting points for those seeking the TRUTH, free, online : keith green's "the catholic chronicles" and charles chiniquoy's "fifty years in the church of rome".
???

I agree with you on Roman Catholicism. It's a man-made "religion" that is not biblical. the pope is just a man so why do the masses turn out to "worship" him. The RC church reminds me of an "old gentleman's" club where corruption is widespread and covered up. Insisting that priests cannot marry is a recipe for abuse.
 
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MollyConnor

Guest
#88
I visited my cousin this weekend and she told me that since my non-denominational church went under and closed, I should go back to Catholicism. She says that the Bible says that the Lord's church will never end and that is the Catholic church. She told me that Peter was the first Pope and that the RC church was the church Jesus Christ started.

I am a bit confused now. What should I do about all this? I was a Catholic for 14 years and then I converted about ten years ago to Christianity.

I've heard that we should judge government programs by their outcomes and not their intentions. I feel that way about religion. The Catholic church has good intentions, but I don't really see my cousin producing anything of spiritual value.
 
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mikeuk

Guest
#89
???
the pope is just a man so why do the masses turn out to "worship" him.
Except we don't worship the pope. Nothing remotely similar. Just another of those myths.
Have you ever actually been to a mass? It is as Christ and scripture centric as you can be!
Having been protestant, evangelical then catholic, I can say there is far more scripture in the mass than any other service!
I am a bit confused now. What should I do about all this? I was a Catholic for 14 years and then I converted about ten years ago to Christianity.
But Catholics are Christians, and I came back to RCC from evangelicals because they were consistent with the early history.
For example -
Check out the history of the new testament, which says that the faith was handed on by tradition, and paul says so. Also That the "pillar and foundation of truth is the church"
Then check out such as the letter of Ignatius to the Smyrneans - who was taught by polycarp, who was taught by John the apostle, to see what the early church did.
You will see the real presence in the eucharist, the need of bishops to preside over that and baptism , or those they empower to do it.
The early church was liturgical, sacramental, had clergy and so on, proof in the church fathers. From irenaus they list the succession of the bishop of Rome, and Augustine clearly believed it and said so.
It is your choice , but at least study the history of the canon of scripture first , indeed the new testament, which in origin was not a book, it was the name for the new covenant which is the same word as testament.
Jesus did not give us a book, he gave us apostles to hand on the faith, the new testament developed with time.

Just check it out and then decide.
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#90
You're proposing to FORCE them into one church though, that's exactly what the RCC wants. The next step towards one world religion is easy to make then.

chase: drive or cause to go in a specified directio
n

one they are in there they are free to do as they wish. Would you rather have people who mutter about "those other people?"
Because I've heard that in church.... I've been "warned" to stay away from so and so church because they believe differently.
but I see you are trolling, so I will leave it at this
 
D

didymos

Guest
#91

chase: drive or cause to go in a specified directio
n

one they are in there they are free to do as they wish. Would you rather have people who mutter about "those other people?"
Because I've heard that in church.... I've been "warned" to stay away from so and so church because they believe differently.
but I see you are trolling, so I will leave it at this
Chase into/force into: same dif. And "once inside they could do as they wish?" Well, only within the limits of the rules and doctrine of the church they were forced to join. I don't think your forced ecumene would last long. Btw: people from Norway should be really careful accusing others of being trolls. :p
 
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EdisonTrent

Guest
#92
I tend to like things 'black and white" with no gray areas. Which leads me to this conclusion: There are only 2 kinds of churches: The Happy/Clappy & the Frozen/Chosen.
lol I love your saying on two kinds of churches I'll have to remember that so true...
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#93
My view is as follows....

The Lord's true N.T. churches are not necessarily identified by a particular name and or association although we can identify the majority of heretical religions by name and or association.....at the end of the day it is all about what they teach and practice.....there is but one true gospel message of salvation period....within the ranks of religion there are numerous (gospel) messages....the key is simple....which church, group and or person aligns the things they teach with what the bible actually teaches....the majority of people regurgitate what they have been taught by the particular religious affiliations that they have had or currently have......my question is and will always be..what does the bible say and or teach about any given subject....there is such a thing as absolute truth and it can be known when studied in context while being willing to be honest and open to what the bible actually states and or teaches.........! There will never be a perfect church on this planet as long as they are made up of fallen men who have been saved, yet are fallable! That is not to say that a church cannot be acceptable in God's eyes as even the Corinthian church which had some 14-16 things wrong was still identified as one of the Lord's churches.......!
 
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atwhatcost

Guest
#94
that's the perspective for some congregations
How's this for a deal? Don't cut my words to make it into something else, and I won't do it to you either.

(Try reading both what I was responding to and all I said. ;))
 
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atwhatcost

Guest
#95
It is interesting that as someone who spent years as a protestant then in some evangelical sects, finally becoming a catholic, I do not recognise the caricature of it by those outside it, who do not seem to know either what it is or what it stands for.

What catholics believe is there in the catechism for all to see.
If you don't subscribe to it, you are not a catholic, and you know where the door is, it is not locked.
For sure there are a lot of badly catechised cradle catholics who do some strange things. But they do not speak for catholicsim when they do.

The catholic mass says it all. It is wall to wall scripture, with several readings in each mass, farmore than in any evangelical or protestant sect I ever belonged to. There are 100 mentions of Jesus, God, Lamb, Spirit, but only two of mary and the saints in the context of "pray for us". Bible reading has always been encouraged, as numerous popes have urged, whether the message gets through or not, is something else.

The reality is scripture and asking for guidance from the spirit is provably not enough, as the massive profound differences between an enormous number of protestant denominations prove.

As for tradition , please understand it. The word paradosis "tradition" means handing down, which is how the faith was transmitted in the early years. Jesus gave us apostles, not a book to hand the faith on. So as Paul says "hold true to tradition taught to you by word of mouth and letter" is simply reflective of how the faith was handed on before the new testament became an accepted book, and evidence that the gospels were not yet in circulation then.

On the other hand go back to the early church fathers, you can see what the apostles handed down. Irenaus only a century on who knew and was taught by Polcarp who was, a student of John the apostle.

He writes for example of bishops, or those they entrust to perform valid baptism and eucharist.

"Do ye all follow the bishop, as Jesus Christ doth the Father; and follow the presbyters as the apostles; and have respect unto the deacons as unto the commandment of God. Let no one, apart from the bishop, do any of the things that appertain unto the church. Let that eucharist alone be considered valid which is celebrated in the presence of the bishop, or of him to whom he shall have entrusted it. 8:2 Wherever the bishop appear, there let the multitude be; even as wherever Christ Jesus is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful either to baptize, or to hold a love-feast without the consent of the bishop; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that also is well pleasing unto God, to the end that whatever is done may be safe and sure. "


Elsewhere he says of the real presence

"Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes"

And so on.
History and tradition are needed to understand how the early church performed, and what scripture means as opposed to what it says.
I was raised Catholic. I used to go to church after grade school to light a candle, pray seven Our Fathers, seven Hail Marys and seven Glory Bes, to get another soul out of purgatory, so, when I die, they'll pray me out. My teachers at St. Pat's taught me that deal.

I was taught one of the commandments "Don't be impure" meant I had to brush my teeth twice a week, and take baths when my parents told me to. Sister Mary Joseph taught me that one.

Imagine my surprise at 17 in CCD when a priest taught me that transubstantiation isn't real. It's just a wafer.

I gave up on the RCC after listening to a sermon about the goddess and queen of the universe Mary.

(I stayed in the Catholic Churck longer than I should have, because I'm my younger brother's godmother, and Mom died when I was 16. I was born again for three months when she died, but she made me promise to raise my younger brother up in the church.)

My dad is still Catholic. He thinks when he dies he gets to roam around the universe to see everything. That's heaven. He's surprised I believe all that junk like, you know, the Old Testament. That's just stories. (He was raised in Catholic schools too, taught by Jesuits until he graded high school.)

My younger brother (the one I tried to raise as a good Catholic) is still Catholic. He knows there is a god. He just doesn't think anyone will know who God is.

My sister is still Catholic. She's really into New Age stuff.

The pope believes homosexuals can bring something important into the church.

No one has to walk out that door, since you can believe anything you want to believe.

I really do understand Catholicism. I also know it has very little to do with Christianity.