Not By Works

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Mar 28, 2016
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I only read your first sentence because MY EYES GLAZE OVER.

WHY must Jesus do everything for you???

He hung on a cross for you, you want he should live your life for you too???

Is there something wrong with this picture?

YES. And I'm sure you've heard me say it MANY times.

So, this time let's do like with the kids.

SCENE 1:
Set up

Garee is a born again Christian. He loves Jesus.
He's a good person. He does everything right.
He never sins - just like Dcon says about some people here.
Apparently some people could NEVER SIN. yeah. That's theology alright.

So, Jesus is very happy with GAREE. And Garee is happy with Garee.

SCENE II.
Set up

But one day....

OH NO. Garee SINS!!!!!!!!!!!!! MAY IT NEVER BE.

Now. If JESUS is doing EVERYTHING for you, and HE'S LIVING THROUGH YOU, or you're living through Him, or whatever...

WHO SINNED?
Garee or JESUS?????????


BTW...
Can Garee not do ANYTHING for Himself except BELIEVE???

Oh my.
Garee is a sinner.He sins eveyday. Do I have to do anything but believe ?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Hi FranC,

I will help out. Heb 10:26-27 means exactly what God says....

Heb 10:26-27,
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

If we choose to continue in wilful known sin we are not believing Gods Word and will be lost and not saved because sin is the transgression of God's Law and the wages of sin is death (1John 3:4; Rom 6:23) Hope this helps those struggling with the verses :rolleyes:
The gift of God is eternal life. All sin is willful according to our will when we do deny Him in unbelief .He cannot deny himself that every sin we do his grace sufficient to forgive all sin and continue to cleanse us. No such thing as accidental sin even the secret sins are forgiven if a person does have the Spirit of Christ .He is the qualifier as the just and the justifier.


It’s a warning for us to behave ourselves it is written to Christians. It has nothing to do with losing that which we cannot be lost. Either a person has the Spirit of Christ or he does not belong to Him.

Hoping the flesh could count for something is a indication a person might not have the Spirit of Christ .

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
 
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You are indeed a funny one with all your funny saying and agendas. It is God's Word not mine if you want to follow God follow Him if not it is up to you
Its is up to Christ. No man can (impossible) come unless God draws us. No man of his own volition could seek after him in order for him to give His understanding. He must do the first work which is not according to what some call the free will of man.

Seems like these scriptures along with many other do not exist for some;
Yes it does seem that way for some.

They exist; it’s a matter of whose work of faith saves a person? Some say, we all have a free choice to choose who we follow or not...and the dumb ones suffer for ever.

It what the Greeks performed show me God by the wisdom of this world (the intellectual gospel) The cross the stumbling block .

Other require a sign that they can perform like I go to Church and read the Bible or speak a tongue or feed the poor.The cross the stumbling block .


1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom. But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
 
Dec 12, 2013
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excuse me, you are the one who has no concept of the blood atonement nor of its purpose to free us from sin, and its power to do so....you make the blood of Jesus week and of none effect with your feeble gospel message......a failing gospel from the beginning, to the end, having no power therein to purge the lustful desires and indulgences of the flesh.....
You assume much and the word is WEAK.....and it is obvious that your version is the Weak version....your Jesus cannot keep you saved and you have no concept of sin in the believer....John was clear....those who say they have NO SIN are DECIEVED and do not have the TRUTH dwelling in them....so SEE.....the truth is seen by ALL who are honest....your deception and lack of truth is proven by JOHN who was inspired....you on the other hand....not so much pal........and just for you a bonus scripture that you deny......

David described the blessedness of the man to who God IMPUTES RIGHTEOUSNESS without the deeds of the LAW (works)......

A man who denies the bolded cannot be a saved child of GOD ^^^^^^^^^
 
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its inevitable to many that one gets saved in their sin, lives in their sin daily in thought, word, and deed, and then dies in their sin. But wala, its PIE IN THE SKY WHEN YOU DIE, IN THE SWEET BYE AND BYE.... no wonder the outside world looks down and mocks professed Christianity, it was said to be that way in Ezekiel 16...They even appear naked to the heathen by standers looking on, let alone to real followers with discernment..
The bolded you are not.....the very things you say prove that you are not a REAL follower....How can a man be saved when they deny the imputed righteousness of Christ.......they cannot be because they are going about to establish their own righteousness and ALL who deny SIN in their lives are DECEIVED and HAVE NO TRUTH dwelling in them......You should actually trust JESUS instead of yourself....your sinless perfectionist working for dogma will not get you there pal...!

For you pal...

David described the blessedness of the man to who God IMPUTES RIGHTEOUSNESS without the deeds of the LAW (works)......
 
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Dec 12, 2013
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Who is actually doing the holding?...

One who professes to be a christian, but then ends up completely rejecting God, just proves that their salvation was not real to begin with. The reason he is able to "let go" of the things of God is because he himself is the one doing the holding (since he's not saved). He doesn't belong to God, therefore God's power cannot keep him. This is the difference between the wheat and the tares.

As 1 John says (I know this one has been posted to death, so we all know it by now :)), it's clear that many will come out from among us, because they were not of us, otherwise they would've stayed with us. So their leaving makes clear they are not of us.

I'm not talking of backsliding christians though, who have drifted off for a time. I was one of them, but I still remained His child. Others could even see that I was. Believers do return. In my case, I was so young when I was saved, and just didn't grow at all. Being so young I got distracted with the things of the world, but He gave me that freedom to drift off. Most likely it was a life lesson. But then He called me back in 2011 in a powerful way (blog post coming soon). So in my case He was the one that chose the timing, not me, and I believe it was all according to His will, the plans He had for me. Then satan got angry and tried to kill me just days later, and was unsuccessful because of God's protection :)
I know...and their very words condemn them....there are two posters on this thread that...

a. Deny the imputed righteousness of Christ to a believer
b. Say the cross is not enough
c. Say that the imputed righteousness of Christ is a neat little trick that does not work

BOTH deny sin in a believer and both push their own working for I don't sin dogma.......MY bible teaches that a man who believes the above is not saved.....regardless of how much they claim to follow JESUS.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Hi Katy,

It is possible to be following God one day and not following Him the next day if you choose to yield to temptation and choose a life of sin. While you are choosing a life of sin, you have fallen away from the faith and chosen to leave God until you repent and turn back to God. I am glad you are back with God now.

God bless :rolleyes:
There is no such thing as saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost..........

Where sin abounds GRACE DID MUCH MORE ABOUND...........you guys need to get over this sinless perfectionist crap......John was clear...If WE say that WE have NO SIN, WE are deceived and the truth is not in US........

WE, WE, WE US <----THE apostle that JESUS loved and who wrote almost 20% of the N.T. wrote this and included himself.....

There is not ONE day that goes by that you do not fail the Lord in SOME form or FASHION......NO ONE is or was SINLESS except JESUS.....
 
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Heb 10:26,
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.



God bless
Was Peter lost when he denied the Lord 3 times?........the tragic truth....YOUR yanked out of context usage of Hebrews 10 above proves you the false teacher........and what you push...the same sinless perfectionist lie that Sponge pushes is false....

John also said....IF we say that we have no SIN we are deceived and the truth is not in us.

so which is it.....We say we know him and do not keep his commandments we are a liar....We say we have no sin we are deceived and NO truth in us.....so....which are YOU?
 
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Sorry, but a child never stops being a child, whether by flesh birth or spiritual birth. Since you can't climb back in the womb and be unborn physically, so too you can't be unborn spiritually either.

We will not be perfect until we get that glorified body at the end. In the meantime, believers will occasionally slip up, whether through pride, anger, or any wrongful thought. Believers can be tempted. But then a distinction needs to be made between this and the continuation of a lifestyle engaged in as the unrighteous old man, before one became a new creature in Christ.

A thief who gets saved will no longer continue a life of stealing. Homosexuals who get saved will no longer continue a homosexual lifestyle, for example. The scriptures say that these lifestyles (I gave just 2 examples) are committed by the unrighteous (non believers) (v9). 1 Cor 6: "...And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God"

The pastor of my childhood church gave in to a temptation, by sleeping with a woman in the congregation, and he got her pregnant. While it was still a sin, he didn't have an ongoing affair with her. He gave in to a temptation (still bad though). A non believer would have an ongoing affair with no conviction at all. Not long afterwards he got testicular cancer. Would not like to confirm it was related, but I think God punished him for that sin. Who knows whether he lost that part of himself as a result of the cancer too. It also almost ruined his family. He stepped down as pastor and backslid as a christian, struggling to let go of what he had done. I believe that God does go to those lengths of inflicting His children with either illness or death, as part of His chastising. I actually wrote about a whole load of things going on in my childhood church and how God dealt with the mess.

When I backslid, I was a baby christian and continued to be one, never growing. I suffered many situations as a result of sin in this world, and things would've been a bit easier for me if I weren't backsliding. Though I was spared some situations, which I believe God used to bring me back. But the point is that God doesn't lose any that belong to Him. He brings us back. You say that I turned back to God, but it was God that was drawing me back.

I'll also say that while I was backsliding I never lost any belief in God, I knew I was still a christian, but I just was a baby christian that didn't have that opportunity to grow when I was first saved. Still, others would ask me if I were a christian, because they could see by my nature that I was their spiritual sister. They just knew... and they were right. The Holy Spirit never left me.
The lawyers, Pharisees and sinless perfectionists by their own dogma state that they are not of the fold..........a son by birth will be a son by birth for all eternity.......!
 
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Some people have an "agenda" when they say "We are to follow God and keep the commandments" which does have the "appearance" of good as Paul talks about but there is "something" behind this saying.

What they really mean is "We must keep the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament way shown in the law of Moses or these Christians are sinning and dis-obeying God".

This is what the resistance to the truth that "willful sinning" which we know to be rejecting Christ as the sacrifice for sins is rejected by them as the writer of Hebrews was speaking to Jewish people in the letter.

They want to be able to say we are wilfully sinning by not keeping the Sabbath day as in the law of Moses - which is from Friday night until Saturday.

We know that Christ Himself is our true Sabbath rest and that all the Old Testament speaks of Him and the Old Testament way was a shadow of the real substance which is Christ Himself. Col.2 16-17

Some are so deceived that they say that Christians who assemble on sunday worshiping God - that these Christians do is "taking the mark of the beast".

We are not ignorant of the enemies devices.
Tragic for sure.......lawyers, Pharisees and sinless perfectionists......they muddle the simplicity that is found in Christ and push the traditions of men as the word of God.....and in so doing make all who believe their lies two fold the child of hell.......to quote Jesus that is.....!
 
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P.S.
Jesus is NOT the King of unsaved persons. So, we are speaking about saved persons.
You should learn the word of God before you make such foolish statements....

Last time I checked he is LORD of both the LIVING and the DEAD and EVERY KNEE shall BOW and CONFESS to the glory of GOD......I can think of many scriptures that places ALL of humanity under him.....WOW...............

ALL things were mad by him and for him
He is the HEAD of all things
He lights EVERY an that comes into the world
He is lifted up and draws ALL men unto him
ALL judgment has been committed unto the SON
KING of kings, LORD of lords
KING over ALL the earth
Rule ALL nations with a rod of IRON

and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.......
 
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One thing to keep in mind is that it is possible to post a "string" of scriptures that are all taken out of context from both the OT and the NT to "prove" a teaching.

I like to use Exodus 32:33 as an example. Let's say I have this "theory" that we must be sinless all of our lives to get to heaven.

I start with the below scripture from Moses and from the start it's not looking good for us...:(...

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

I then can go on to post scriptures from Moses to David to Jesus all about sin and what it does. Then I end up with the book of Revelation 21:8 where it says that all immoral people will be thrown in the lake of fire.

All of these scriptures are true but none of them take into consideration the finished work of Christ and how that Jesus' blood has redeemed sinners.

Jesus' truths trump ( sorry to the Americans for using "trump" as that word can be a stumbling block to some ) all those scriptures that were "strung" together to prove my above theory in the first place.

The finished work of Christ is what all other scriptures need to be interpreted through before IMO they can be legitimately used to support a teaching.

I love to look into the Greek as well for the different nuances and although I did come in 2nd in my Greek class - I have no desire to be able to read it without any help. The Lord has me focusing on different aspects of it.

The funny thing about Greek is that most of the people in NT days spoke Greek and understood the language unlike us today, yet they still needed the Holy Spirit to reveal the truths of the Lord to them.

I find it fascinating to read a scripture I have known all my Christian life and then one day - the Holy Spirit illuminates that scripture and I am amazed at how I didn't see that before.

I maintain that we are just as dependent on the Holy Spirit to reveal Jesus to us in the scriptures as Mary was dependent on the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus in her womb.

We can read the scriptures through the lens of our natural minds whether we know all the Greek words and structure or not and come away with the wrong reality of spiritual truths.
Like post 20638...........yep for sure......!
 
P

PHart

Guest
I'll also say that while I was backsliding I never lost any belief in God, I knew I was still a christian, but I just was a baby christian that didn't have that opportunity to grow when I was first saved.
I've known several people with this testimony. The key is that they never became an unbeliever again. They had weak faith, not no faith at all as so many Christians view this matter of faith.

Unbelief is what will forfeit the grace of God in salvation, not sinning itself. The sin that is motivated by a rejection and turning away from the grace of salvation in unbelief is what will cause the (ex) believer to lose his salvation.

Only believers (present tense) have the security of God's salvation. And only fruit bearing believers have the assurance of that salvation. The sure promise of salvation is only for the believing. And the sure promise of abundant life in your salvation is only for the fruit bearing believing person.
 
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The gift of God is eternal life. All sin is willful according to our will when we do deny Him in unbelief .He cannot deny himself that every sin we do his grace sufficient to forgive all sin and continue to cleanse us. No such thing as accidental sin even the secret sins are forgiven if a person does have the Spirit of Christ .He is the qualifier as the just and the justifier.


It’s a warning for us to behave ourselves it is written to Christians. It has nothing to do with losing that which we cannot be lost. Either a person has the Spirit of Christ or he does not belong to Him.

Hoping the flesh could count for something is a indication a person might not have the Spirit of Christ .

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
AMEN.....where sin abounds, GRACE did much more abound <--written unto the saved.......!
 
P

PHart

Guest
You should learn the word of God before you make such foolish statements....

Last time I checked he is LORD of both the LIVING and the DEAD and EVERY KNEE shall BOW and CONFESS to the glory of GOD......I can think of many scriptures that places ALL of humanity under him.....WOW...............

ALL things were mad by him and for him
He is the HEAD of all things
He lights EVERY an that comes into the world
He is lifted up and draws ALL men unto him
ALL judgment has been committed unto the SON
KING of kings, LORD of lords
KING over ALL the earth
Rule ALL nations with a rod of IRON

and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.......
For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him.
Hebrews 1:8 NASB
 
P

PHart

Guest
AMEN.....where sin abounds, GRACE did much more abound <--written unto the saved.......!
God's grace will follow the believer even into the deepest of sins. But the one place it will not follow the (ex) believer (for long anyway) is into your unbelief, your rejection of the blood that sanctified you.

26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THEFURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” 31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


A lot of people seem to be gambling that the plain words of the passage above don't really mean what they plainly say.
 
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For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him.
Hebrews 1:8 NASB
Yep keep reading.....the word ALL has a particular application....see if you can be honest about it and post what the word ALL is applied unto.....!
 
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God's grace will follow the believer even into the deepest of sins. But the one place it will not follow the (ex) believer (for long anyway) is into your unbelief, your rejection of the blood that sanctified you.

26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THEFURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” 31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


A lot of people seem to be gambling that the plain words of the passage above don't really mean what they plainly say.
Yep and a lot or people fail to acknowledge the context of said verses........while twisting them to apply unto something which they do not apply unto....!
 
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Was Peter lost when he denied the Lord 3 times?........the tragic truth....YOUR yanked out of context usage of Hebrews 10 above proves you the false teacher........and what you push...the same sinless perfectionist lie that Sponge pushes is false....

John also said....IF we say that we have no SIN we are deceived and the truth is not in us.

so which is it.....We say we know him and do not keep his commandments we are a liar....We say we have no sin we are deceived and NO truth in us.....so....which are YOU?
Hi DCON,

I don't know if you meant to or not but you just twisted what I said to try and make it sound like I am saying something I never did and ignored the context of the conversation the message was sent to. Anyhow the context is continuing in wilful sin. Did Peter continue in wilful sin? What your suggesting that I said is just plain deceitful or you do not know God's Word which is it?

Heb 10:26-27,
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth
, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Eze 18:4

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.

1John 2:3,
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1John 2:4,
He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Ok time to sleep my end all :)

God bless you
 
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