Not By Works

royalscot · Jul 25, 2017

True faith will have a corresponding action of some kind.

Let's look at what James says about faith & it's corresponding "work" in relation to having eternal life now and forever because we heard the message of Christ and believed on Him - then we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Eph. 1:13

It is very interesting that in James's examples of faith "being made alive" by a work or a corresponding action. Both Rahab and Abraham each did a one time corresponding action to demonstrate their faith.

Abraham believed God and offered up Isaac on the alter. Rahab received the spies. Both one time events in their life - God calls this faith in action.

James 2:20-25 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

[SUP]21 [/SUP] Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

[SUP]22[/SUP]You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

[SUP]23 [/SUP] and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

Paul and James completely go together and do not cancel each other out nor contradict the basic truth of believing in Christ brings eternal life when we hear the true message of Christ's work and that we have the forgiveness of sins.

We do the very same thing when we hear the message of Christ and we believe and then God seals us with the Holy Spirit. This is our faith with a corresponding action or a "work".

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Jesus said to do the work of God was to believe in the Son.

Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10[/SUP]for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

This is faith with corresponding action - or a work. This is how we are saved by grace through faith just like Paul said.

Jame's talk about "faith" and "works" is in relation to helping out our fellow man that is in need.

you contradict your self. buy trying to add works or action.
for example
who s voice or vision,led peter to go to cornelious home.

whos voice, did abraham follow.( by following gods led, an action will be fruitful. etc )

so an action by following gods voice or vision, needs to be addressed, before you look at action to human achievements.

Grace777x70 · Jul 25, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

Have you not ever read when Jesus spoke against the religious scribes and Pharisees that they conspired together to catch Jesus so that they could accuse Him?

Why did they do this? Because their false doctrine of self-righteousness was exposed for what it really is by the teaching of Jesus. Luke 11:44-54

This exact same thing occurs today with Judaizers that say Christians are sinning and dis-obeying God by not observing the Sabbath as in the Old Testament way. And it happens to works-based salvationists as well when they say that we need to save ourselves.

Both are eating from the same tree of the knowledge of good and evil and trying to create and maintain their own righteousness by what they do or don't do.

They are both trying to be like God without trusting in Christ's work. It is the hallmark sign of religion and it was a lie from the garden as well.

It didn't take long for the Judaizers to come and pervert the gospel of the grace of God in Christ by trying to tell Christians they need to follow the law of Moses.

Acts 15:4-5 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] When they arrived at Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all that God had done with them.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses."

But the apostles came against this Judaizing spirit ( the same as others do here in CC today )

Acts 15:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

[SUP]11 [/SUP] "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."

Grace777x70 · Jul 25, 2017

royalscot said:

It is not a human achievement to believe when God speaks to us. All things originate from God from who we have to do.

Faith comes from hearing the word of Christ.

Romans 10:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

The "action" was believing and confessing that Jesus is Lord as in Romans 10:9-10 when we heard the gospel message of Christ.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

True faith always has a corresponding action of some sort when we hear the word of Christ Himself.

LoveGodForever · Jul 25, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Hi Grace777,

Your a funny one and your Gospel seems to gives you funny fruit. Do you love Jesus Grace777

?

Grace777x70 · Jul 25, 2017

................. I rest my case....

royalscot · Jul 25, 2017

UnderGrace said:

some schollers believe , it was a rich jewish person, with the wording used in the writing of hebrews., most likey male , given the jewish religion, at that time ,were mostly male leaders. and the writer knew timothy. and most likley writing, this letter to his family.

royalscot · Jul 25, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

you do not have a case , if you do not have contact with the spiritul(rhema)

3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free

thats the whole point, paul make, any fool can read scripture, but if he severs him self. then asks what is causing being severed. its down to his choice.

UnderGrace · Jul 25, 2017

Except according to LoveGodForever you can only rest if you keep the Sabbath...

I know, you know, we are in the new covenant...completely new!!!

Grace777x70 said:

royalscot · Jul 25, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

you mean , in your opinion,
you asking me to read, (the bible never went to print, till 1300-1500.)
about someone elses faith and actions.( when an example was already given to there faith of other. )

you can think, what you like, what action did you do, to write this post. and how dose that prove you hear the rhema word,

dcontroversal · Jul 25, 2017

Jackson123 said:

Really...

a. Men can cut down a tree and it will burn in hell?
b. Is hell used in that verse?

dcontroversal · Jul 25, 2017

FranC said:

Did not John say that you have NO NEED that any man teach you anything and that you have an unction from the Holy Spirit....?

And that when the Spirit of truth is come he will LEAD and GUIDE you into ALL truth.....

SO.....men are more enlightened and can teach better than the Holy Spirit....? Is that what you are saying?

and Who said anything about not going to church.....?

You sure assume a lot and jump to erroneous conclusions.....

stonesoffire · Jul 25, 2017

royalscot said:

some schollers believe , it was a rich jewish person, with the wording used in the writing of hebrews., most likey male , given the jewish religion, at that time ,were mostly male leaders. and the writer knew timothy. and most likley writing, this letter to his family.

I think it was Apollo.

dcontroversal · Jul 25, 2017

UnderGrace said:

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
John 14:25

As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
1 John 2:27

Amazing how believers and great minds think alike.........post 21451

followjesus · Jul 25, 2017

royalscot said:

the hebrew writer? no context to what you have said? lol what are you talking about? Every single writer in the Bible apart from Luke, was Jewish. including paul, a roman Jew duel citizen, a pharisee beforehand. oh excuse me also ruth whether she wrote ruth or not She was Gentile. so that means Luke. acts and possibly ruth were all written by non Jews. however the author of the Bible is the Holy spirit whether He wrote through moses, the prophets, or the apostles. Heres something you are not recognizing though

Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

romans 3:29 "Is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,

1 corinthians 12:13 "For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free, and we were all given one Spirit to drink."

galatians 3:28 "He redeemed us so that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

you are failing to recognize Jew, gentile, male , female, old , young doesnt matter from the Moment Jesus came. you have a thought Jesus was only sent to Jews. the fact is He was sent first to Jews and then commanded the same to take His Gospel to the whole world. your not seeing the fact that Jesus death was commited by jews who condemned Him and gave Him to gentiles to crucify. all People are responsible for Jesus Death and the ways of God, that fact includes all of us in the new covenant. Jesus said plainly to the Jews He was teaching " I have other sheep who are not of this pen, i must bring them also" thats simply a reflection of what was already foretold about the messiah that He would not only save the Jews, but would also save the gentiles.

isaiah 49:6 "And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.( luke 2:32, acts 13:47)a repeated promise about the Christ beginning in Genesis is that when He came, He would no longer be exclusive to the Jewish nation, but His salvation would be extended to all people on earth.

Genesis 22:18 "And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice." ( again abraham blessed because He obeyed, not faith alone but faith that caused Him to obey. james 2

glatians 3:8-9 "And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Galatians 3:16" Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ

your totally missing what the gospel even is friend. like so many you want to seperate certain books of the Bible and say well this guy was Jewish so that means its not for Gentiles lol paul was Jewish as well, John, peter, james, the ot writers, Jesus the Messiah almost every writer again apart from Luke, and if ruth wrote Her book. so by the logic of " was the hebrews writer Jewish? you would then have to eliminate all books apart from Luke, acts and possibly ruth. it simply doesnt matter who the person who wrote was, it matters that they were writing from the spirit of God. Just as it doesnt matter who the person is that Hears and believes the Gospel, what matters is that they actually accept it, whether Jew or Gentile. Just like at the Judgement day it wont matter if a person is jewish or gentile all of us will be judged according to Our deeds,

romans 2:4-11 "Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

this whole no works required because of faith idea is like a boat with no bottom it doesnt float it will sink no matter who jumps in that boat theyll have to either swim to the shore and Get in the right Boat, or theyll drown and be fish food. thats not what alot of folks want to Hear, but its no less the truth faith is nothing without the deeds, like Love is not Love without the deeds.

i have a feeling you simply are a gog folk and cant stand the fact that repentance of sin is a requirement of Christian doctrine, and that Obedience to the Word of God is Life and How faith is expressed in truth. that your actions matter, that you have a choice to live forever, or to disregard all the Bible says about what you are commanded By the Only God to actually do. that gog " doctrine" is a terribly deceptive one friend i would consider comparing it to the Word of God to see Just how much of a farce it really is and How much of the Bible thats so clear, you would have to ignore in order to make it plausable. its better to Just accept those things you dont want to Hear and then work them Out with fear and trembling than to live life in the dark thinking God wont fulfill His word about the disobedient, better to lose some things that are wrong now, and enter into eternity with Jesus, than to invent ways to do what we want to do without consequence and then end up Hearing " Depart from me you workers of iniquity...I never Knew you." thats where faith without works will lead

followjesus · Jul 25, 2017

UnderGrace said:

How would you define the new covenant?

dcontroversal · Jul 25, 2017

followjesus said:

NEW....................................................!

stonesoffire · Jul 25, 2017

followjesus said:

The will that Jesus "wrote" describing our inheritance.

UnderGrace · Jul 25, 2017

Thank you!!

dcontroversal said:

Jackson123 · Jul 25, 2017

dcontroversal said:

mat 7

19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

i believe fire mean hell

followjesus · Jul 25, 2017

UnderGrace said:

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
John 14:25

what of the context there ? doesnt the scripture all around that have some bearing on How that is meant to be understood? take a look.

John 14:15-25 "If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]...V[/FONT] 21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

how is it that the gog requires a single verse and contradicts the actual context? thats How those new authors are revolutionizing the Gospel, by ommiting things they Know sinners dont want to Hear. in order to make a message thats friendly....even though its not the actual Gospel. as you see above Jesus was saying something. all of those verses are there for understanding. when a person plucks a single verse to exclude the context theres an issue.

He says Love me, Obey my commands and I will ask the Father and He will send the spirit to you. Judas asks why will you show us and not the world? Jesus replies if a mans Loves me He will keep my words and the Father will Love Him....if anyone doesnt Love me He will not obey my word...He then makes it really powerful when He says " the word you hear is not mine, it belongs to God the Father who sent me.

thats a pretty important part about receiving the spirit, to understand who is giving it, and what He said about How to receive it wouldnt you think? its not as if i say " Ibelieve Jesus doied for my sins and was raised to Life" now all the sudden were filled with the spirit of God and just need to listen to Our inner monologue now. its about the Gospel about Hearing the Word of God, and keeping it. when Jesus is actually the Lord then the spirit comes and even then Our work is not over this is when were equipped with all we need to run the race, put the flesh to death and walk in the righteousness of God Litterally actually perform the right things and stop following the wrong.

Faith doesnt mean because we say i have faith, now theres nothing for me to do, having faith means its now time to get to work to follow Gods Word unto salvation. put the flesh to death by FOLLOWING the spirit. the spirit is there saying repent of the sin you know you have commited stop doing that and instead do this other thing that Jesus said to do. notice the spirit reminds of what Jesus said in the Gospel. thats How were taught through the Word of God. we cant on one hand omit what doesnt sound easy and then claim all the promises to those who repent and obey and actually do Gods Will. we have to treat God......as if He is Our God. and who would ever not obey thier God and then claim what he promised to those who do?

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