Not By Works

[Ariel82]

Exodus 19 and 20 reveal that the 10 commandments were given on Mount Sinai and are part of the Old Covenant that was nailed to the cross.

 

[Ariel82]

If we love God and our neighbor, we are keeping the ten commandments.

If we could love God and our neighbors fully, we could be justified by the LAW by saying we keep the commandments. However, our love is not as it should be and that is why we need Jesus to cleanse us. That is why we need the Holy spirit to teach us. That is why we need God's forgiveness.

 

[Magenta]

If we could love God and our neighbors fully, we could be justified by the LAW by saying we keep the commandments. However, our love is not as it should be and that is why we need Jesus to cleanse us. That is why we need the Holy spirit to teach us. That is why we need God's forgiveness.

We live in a fallen world and sadly, everything is tainted by sin.

Still, love does no harm to another, and the commandments tell us how.

 

[Ariel82]

Galatians 4

21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother

 

[mailmandan]

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View attachment 172456

Amen! Christianity is about a personal, relationship with Jesus Christ and not legalistic, religious bondage to the law.

 

[Magenta]

When some people talk about the law, they mean only the ten, or they mean the ten plus the 613, or they mean just the 613. For a Christian to say we need to follow and keep the 613 is ridiculous. The 613 were never given to us and were not meant for us, and besides, nobody can keep them, so they deceive themselves if they think anyone can. Love fulfills the law

 

[Grace777x70]

The 10 commandments including the keeping of the Sabbath day as outlined in it are in the law of Moses

( Which no one really keeps the Sabbath as they are constantly breaking the Sabbath because they need to be stoning people that don't keep it )

Paul said that "coveting" was in the law unless "coveting" got kicked out of the 10 for getting caught "coveting".
Romans 7:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

The reason why law-keepers try to separate out the law of Moses is so that they can try to deceive Christians into believing that they are sinning and dis-obeying God by not keeping the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament way. It is called Judaizing.

 

[Ariel82]

Exodus 34 also speaks of the renewing of the Old Covenant.

 

[Ariel82]

When some people talk about the law, they mean only the ten, or they mean the ten plus the 613, or they mean just the 613. For a Christian to say we need to follow and keep the 613 is ridiculous. The 613 were never given to us and were not meant for us, and besides, nobody can keep them, so they deceive themselves if they think anyone can. Love fulfills the law

No one tries and teach the keeping of the 613 ceremonial laws.

The question is does the New covenant include the 10 commandments or were they nailed to the cross?

I believe they have been nailed to the cross.

However the laws are still in effect on this world. The difference is that God's children have diplomatic immunity because we are called to be His Ambassadors.

However We do not use our freedom to sin but to proclaim the message our Father has entrusted us to tell the world of His love and redemption plan.

 

[Magenta]

The 10 commandments including the keeping of the Sabbath day as outlined in it are in the law of Moses

( Which no one really keeps the Sabbath as they are constantly breaking the Sabbath because they need to be stoning people that don't keep it )

Paul said that "coveting" was in the law unless "coveting" got kicked out of the 10 for getting caught "coveting".
Romans 7:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

The reason why law-keepers try to separate out the law of Moses is so that they can try to deceive Christians into believing that they are sinning and dis-obeying God by not keeping the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament way. It is called Judaizing.

Jesus is our Sabbath rest. We keep the Sabbath by finding our rest in Him. We rest from our works of trying to earn salvation... because it is a gift. However that does not mean we are free to do whatever we want, which I know you do not promote, either. God gives us new desires. He gives us a new heart, even as we are yet in the corruptible flesh. If we are able to find our rest in Him, and cast our burdens on Him as He has invited us to do, then we do not covet, either. Coveting is harmful to ourselves and hurts others. If we love God and are thankful for what He has given us, it should help move us away from wanting what others have by counting our own blessings, and being grateful for what we have. That is my own simple understanding I find rest in Jesus every day.

 

[Magenta]

No one tries and teach the keeping of the 613 ceremonial laws.

I have met people who do preach that.

 

[Ariel82]

I have met people who do preach that.

Yeah you are probably right. I should have said, I don't believe anyone on this thread is preaching that. However someone might pop up and prove me wrong about that statement....




(waiting for Mcgee to say something, lol)

 

[Muzungu256]

1076 pages on a fundamental issue and two sides still dont agree and play word games mamma mia........... its the end of the month and im still outta brew so im mad so lets get real..... can we stop acting like the bible both old and new testament isnt a list of things to do??????? the bible consists of books and epistles and most of dem are all about what we should or shouldnt do.......... this must look dumb to every outsider reading this where we cant even solve our own gospel and salvation ............. is it believe on the Lord Jesus like in acts 16:31?????? or is it repent and be baptized for remission of sins in acts 2:38???? i have seen many people twist acts 2:38 so much its laughable to make it not say what it says.......... is it believe Jesus is the son of God for eternal life, or is it keep the commandments????????? is it confess with your mouth and believe in your heart or is it take up ur cross and follow me, put ur hand to the plow and dont look back or u not fit for the kingdom........... confess with ur mouth Jesus is Lord but not all who say to me Lord lord but those who do the father's will and to this someone will post the this is the father's will that you believe Jesus is the son of God............ this is why the debate exists, because u need to neglect and twist so much scripture to make either view fit 100%.......... this is the truth and i know i will get a lot of hate for this from all sorts of bible teachers and preachers but i couldnt care less unless someone can show me a way to make it all fit together without twisting and erasing bible verses.............. honesty is honesty deal wit it.

 

[dcontroversal]

mat 7

19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

i believe fire mean hell

Contextually it is about men trimming limbs and trees that do not produce and burning them......does it say HELL........NOPE....

 

[dcontroversal]

Say something with value...this is nothing more that your bias ignorance.....here let me post my statement again.....maybe you can address it instead of writing a book that states nothing...for the record......works DO NOT SAVE, KEEP SAVED, FINISH OFF SALVATION <--Galatians 1 and 3 ...........

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

A brief examination will reveal there are a some that just seem to think Jesus is weak and cannot keep his promises.....the God of heaven needs our help to keep his word and his cross, blood and imputed righteousness are neat little tricks that do not work........

Only proves you don't have the Holy Spirit because you won't let Him work in you as His spiritual vessel. The person who truly has the Holy Spirit manifests a faith that worketh in love and you clearly don't have this love for you cannot OBEY His commands.

New International Version 1984 Ephesians 4:1-16 Unity in the Body of Christ As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. BE COMPLETELY HUMBLE AND GENTLE; be patient, bearing with one another in love. MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO KEEP THE UNITY OF THE SPIRIT through the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men.” (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

How can anyone reject GOOD WORKS while claiming on the other hand that it is God who works in and through a believer and to make the confusion worse, while claiming to have the HS, they blatantly declare that they are SINNERS who continue to sin daily and therefore making God whom they claim to live in them is the one sinning because they have no participation in what they do. They make more confusing remarks along with cursings and insults to push their doctrines and to demean other believers who stand on their way.

1 Corinthians 14:37-40 If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored. Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

THIS IS MY FINAL APPEAL TO YOU TO STOP DIVIDING THE CHURCH AND TO REPENT AND ADMIT YOUR MISTAKES FOR THE SAKE OF OTHER BELIEVERS.

IF YOU DECIDE NOT TO LISTEN TO MY PLEA, THEN I CHALLENGE YOU TO TAKE HEED AND TAKE ACTION ON JESUS' COMMAND FOR YOU TO SELL YOUR POSSESSIONS TO BE GIVEN TO THE POOR IN ALL HONESTY AND COMPASSION OUT OF LOVE FOR GOD.

1 John 5:1-3 Faith in the Son of God Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

1 John 3:16-18 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

REMEMBER:

John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

John 12:47-50 “As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

I HAVE NO RIGHT TO JUDGE YOU BUT I KNOW YOU CAN HANDLE THIS AS AN EX-MARINE AND AN ETERNALLY SAVED CHILD OF GOD AS YOU CLAIM.

IT IS YOUR DECLARATION THAT WORKS ARE THE RESULT OF SALVATION THROUGH FAITH AND THE EVIDENCE OR PROOF THEM.

SORRY PAL BUT CAN YOU PROVE THAT "SAVING FAITH" THAT YOU ARE CLAIMING TO ALREADY POSSESS WITH YOUR SALVATION?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

morning kids....


hope all you are doing well

^_^

even the "true" royalscottsmen

 

[dcontroversal]

Does sound exhausting. So what happens to the HS? He keeps jumping in and out of the body?

Sealed...unsealed...sealed, etc...

Exactly.......like a roulette wheel.......the funny thing is that those who push a self centered working for false dogma also take a few verses out of Hebrews out of context to prove that salvation can be lost and then not regained....and of course they have NEVER lost salvation.....they also qualify and compartmentalize sin into a couple of nice neat little boxes.....some sins and your hell bound....and some are just considered messing up....of course the same deceivers never do any grievous sins....they just mess up or slip up a bit......they all righteous and a bag of chips to boot.....

 

[dcontroversal]

One who crosses over from death to life, having become a new creature in Christ, now changed and aware of what they were saved from (since they've been convicted of their sins).... how does that person then behave like a lost person in bondage, saying there is no God?

Do you see how impossible that would be, once a person's eyes have been opened. You don't go back to blindness once your eyes have been opened. But the blind all along never had the truth to begin with.... those would not be believers losing salvation, since they were never saved.

Some might say a prodigal child no longer believes, because they have drifted off for a time, but God keeps us. He never loses any that belong to Him. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. He finishes what He starts. That's His promise.

AMEN....and the prodigal was a son throughout the whole process, very much ALIVE and only perceived as dead.......again I will state that one who pushes that salvation can be lost or forfeit must reject, deny or twist the following truths..

a. Jesus is the beginner and FINISHER of our faith
b. JESUS has promised to FINISH the good work he began in us
c. Jesus has promised to NEVER leave us or FORSAKE us
d. JESUS will leave the 99 to go find the 1
e. We are sealed unto the day of redemption
f. Nothing can separate us fro the love of GOD
g. We are in the Father's hand
h. We are in the Son's hand
I. Whatsoever God does it is everlasting
j. The words eternal and everlasting are changed to temporary
k. Salvation is a free gift and unearned
l. Jesus continually mediates on our behalf
m. The grace of God out bounds our SIN
n. We have been born from ABOVE by an INCORRUPTABLE SEED
o. We are KEPT by the power of GOD

etc........................................................................................!!

 

[dcontroversal]

I guess you could even say that in addition to this it's a rejection of God's omniscience too.

Since He does know the beginning from the end. He knew every sin we would ever commit before we were even born, and saved us while we were enemies. So this idea of being saved, unsaved, saved again, unsaved again is completely alien even to this solid fact.

AMEN....JESUS is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world......HE paid the entire human sin debt and now the Spirit convicts of sin because THEY do not BELIEVE on HIM......

SIN is not the issue....it has been dealt with in Christ.....the problem is BELIEF...................WHERE SIN abounds<--GRACE did much more abound!

Now watch the sinless perfectionists crawl out from the woodwork......

 

[Stephen63]

That is just a pile of this...and it is quite a statement from some one who openly denies that Jesus is God.

We see the real garbage is you attacking other beliefs of the members that don't force them on anyone because you can't handle the truth.

I've seen everybody in your group do this.

It's shameful & full of malice; basically what you claim others do.

Guess what that makes you.