Not By Works

[PHart]

That is an ungodly thought - that God sends His children into the lake of fire. That is the outcome of the false doctrine that Jesus forsakes His own children that He bled and died for.

He bled and died for more people who refuse to receive him than those who will. So your argument is kind of baseless.

There is no such thing as Christ going in and out of us.

Right.
He only comes in one time. If he departs because of unbelief it's impossible for him to come back into that person.

If we see ourselves as children of God we will walk as children of our Father and our true nature in our new creation will transform our minds to reflect that nature outwardly in our behavior powered by the Spirit of God inside of us.

Good, then you too believe that works must accompany salvation. Not because they earn salvation as we are falsely being accused of teaching, but because works are what new creations in Christ will invariably do. For some reason you can't hear us say this, but perhaps you can see it in your own words above. Works are indeed a required part of salvation because that's what born again people do. If they don't do those works John says they do not know God and the truth is not in them.

 

[royalscot]

The gospel of forgiveness, repentance, and, 'then stopping a sinful lifestyle', all go hand in hand:

"...that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.’

19“So, King Agrippa, I did not prove disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance. " (Acts 26:18-20 NASB)

then ask ,why acts 10, is calling you a liar.

you who claim to see scripture.

 

[royalscot]

He bled and died for more people who refuse to receive him than those who will. So your argument is kind of baseless.



Right.
He only comes in one time. If he departs because of unbelief it's impossible for him to come back into that person.


[/SIZE]
Good, then you too believe that works must accompany salvation. Not because they earn salvation as we are falsely being accused of teaching, but because works are what new creations in Christ will invariably do. For some reason you can't hear us say this, but perhaps you can see it in your own words above. Works are indeed a required part of salvation because that's what born again people do. If they don't do those works John says they do not know God and the truth is not in them.

a baby pretending to know scripture,


jesus ministry never stop at the cross.


6 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.John 10


not read some babys, reasoning to a half baked opinion. etc

 

[Grace777x70]

There are over 25 websites that speak of 1 John addressing gnostics in his letter.

Here are some.

Intro to 1 John — Biblica

Gnosticism

One of the most dangerous heresies of the first two centuries of the church was Gnosticism. Its central teaching was that spirit is entirely good and matter is entirely evil

Here's another:

Gnosticism - International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

4. 1 John:
In the First Epistle of John there is a distinct polemical purpose. There is no book of the New Testament which is more purposeful in its attack of error. There is "the spirit of error" (1John 4:6), opposing the Spirit of truth. "Many false prophets are gone out into the world" (1John 4:1), and this from the church itself, "They went out from us, but they were not of us" (1John 2:19); and these false prophets are distinctly named "the antichrist" (1John 2:22) and "the liar" (same place), and "the deceiver and the antichrist" (2John 1:7).

This peril, against which the apostle writes, and from which he seeks to defend the church, was Gnosticism, as is proved by what is said again and again in the epistle of the characteristics of this insidious and deadly teaching.

And another:

https://carm.org/gnosticism

And another:

scripture

And another:

https://www.biblicaltraining.org/lib...pistles-john-

Historical setting

EARLIEST GNOSTIC TENDENCIES.

Many writers have concluded that incipient Gnosticism (not identifiable historically until the 2nd cent. a.d.) was in the background of several NT books, such as Colossians, Ephesians, the pastoral epistles, the Petrine epistles and Jude, but esp. 1 John.

The most advanced stage of Gnosticism that appeared in the background of the NT was reflected in the writing of 1 John. Gnosticism, a popular form of Graeco-Roman philosophy, had no doubt pervaded the thought world of the Rom. empire by a.d. 150 and, confronting Christianity in the latter decades of the 1st cent., had produced serious conflict and confusion within the churches.


​

Anyway - I could go on and on because there are over 25 of them - so it is obvious that many believe 1 John was written to address the gnostic beliefs that were trying to infiltrate the church.

 

[LoveGodForever]

The 10 commandments including the keeping of the Sabbath day as outlined in it are in the law of Moses (Which no one really keeps the Sabbath as they are constantly breaking the Sabbath because they need to be stoning people that don't keep it) Paul said that "coveting" was in the law unless "coveting" got kicked out of the 10 for getting caught "coveting".Romans 7:7 (NASB) [SUP]7 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET." The reason why law-keepers try to separate out the law of Moses is so that they can try to deceive Christians into believing that they are sinning and dis-obeying God by not keeping the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament way. It is called Judaizing.

Hi Grace777,

Let’s look at what you are saying above. So in your belief God’s Law (the 10 commandments) is the law of Moses and no longer required. Do you believe God when His Word says;

God’s Law (10 Commandments) is the work of God himself?

It was written with God’s own finger on two tables of stone?

God gave instruction that the 10 commandments were to be separate from everything else, including the laws of Moses and placed in the Ark of the Covenant?

It was spoken by God himself to His people?

If the 10 commandments were the same as all the other laws of Moses why did God go to all this trouble to do all the above himself?

You use the scripture in Romans 7:7 which undoes everything you have just said in your own previous words. This scripture says that it is through God’s Law that there is knowledge of Sin. This is what is being shared with you. For example, if you do not have God’s Law there is no knowledge of Sin. If there is no knowledge of Sin there is no need of a Saviour. If there is no need of a Saviour there is no salvation. If there is no salvation then the sinner that does not know he is a sinner is lost. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law. (James 1:22-25; Rom 2:12) I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance but go learn what that means. (Matt 9:13) You cannot have a Gospel without God's Law (10 commandments)


Scripture support

The Law of God (10 commandments) is the work of God himself (Ex 32:16; Ex 31:18; 32:16; Ex 20:1-22; Ex 31:18; Deut 4:13)God Law was to be separate from everything else (including the laws of Moses). God’s Law was placed inside the Ark of the Covenant the laws of Moses were written in a book and placed at the side of the Ark of the Covenant (Deut 10:5; Deut 31:24; 25). Whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecc 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul (Ps 19:7). It is the very foundation of the Old and New Covenants (Ex 20:1:17, Heb 8:10-12). It is the foundation of the Judgement were all of us will be Judged in the last days (Ecc 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1John 3:4, Acts 17:31) God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Ex 20:1-22). Jesus says Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away (Matt 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (Ps 111:7-8, Rev 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1John 3:5-8, 1John 2:3-4 etc.). The Law of God reveals sin to us so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4). It is the great standard of the judgement (Ecc 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and the character of God and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood (Gal 3:24; Rev 1:5). God writes His Law in our hearts so that we become like him and we follow him because we love him (Heb 8:10-12; ) LOVE is the fulfilling (doing) of God's Law (Rom 13:10). Still in force today (Ps 111:7-8, Rev 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1John 3:5-8, 1John 2:3-4 etc, etc.) God’s people obey it through faith (Rev 14:12)


So we need to believe you over the Word of God why?

Who do we follow, the Word of God or the traditions of man?

Cutting and pasting the same things over and over do not make them correct

 

[Grace777x70]

He bled and died for more people who refuse to receive him than those who will. So your argument is kind of baseless.



Right.
He only comes in one time. If he departs because of unbelief it's impossible for him to come back into that person.


[/SIZE]
Good, then you too believe that works must accompany salvation. Not because they earn salvation as we are falsely being accused of teaching, but because works are what new creations in Christ will invariably do. For some reason you can't hear us say this, but perhaps you can see it in your own words above. Works are indeed a required part of salvation because that's what born again people do. If they don't do those works John says they do not know God and the truth is not in them.

I believe that works do not save us nor keep us saved. Jesus Himself is the only Savior. we don't save ourselves.

God no more sends His beloved children to hell than Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

This "works-based salvation" creates fruit inspectors.

Another aspect that goes with "fruit inspectors" is just what is fruit? And what does this fruit look like. What if as an analogy a Christian is like an orange tree?

An orange tree is still an orange tree even though it doesn't produce the fruit we want to see in the timeframe we think it should. What happens if this orange tree dies before it has had a chance to be fed properly to grow up to be able to produce the fruit of a ripe orange?

To some works-based people - you would have to display 50 oranges in order to prove you are a real orange tree ( saved ) - to others you need 100 oranges in order to be a proved orange tree. ( saved ) So, this fruit inspection thing is not viable ..that's for God to look at people to determine if they are in Christ or not.

A person could have love and kindness as a fruit in their life but be addicted to some pills or alcohol which they are continuing to struggle with in their life or outbursts of anger..etc.

We religious people love to "categorize" sin - especially the ones that we have never done before and then look down on those that do have a problem that we don't. We say that they are "sinning" - and they are but so are we in other areas too. We all have the flesh to deal with and none of us behaves perfectly in our behavior.

The people that don't have a struggle with alcohol ( or basically anything that they themselves don't struggle with in their flesh that others do ) will condemn the ones that do have these struggles in the flesh and declare they don't have the fruit and thus are not saved. This is Pharisee-ism at it's finest.

Does the orange tree stop being an orange tree even though it dies without having fruit that we think "proves" it was an orange tree to begin with?

What if Christians were like that? What if we fed them messages about the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness in Christ so that they could grow? Then they would produce an abundance of fruit.

I say let's preach and teach the grace of Christ in their lives so that they have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him!

 

[LoveGodForever]

Mat 15:3-9
But he answered and said unto them, why do ye also transgress <SIN> the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou might be profited by me; And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draws nigh unto me with their mouth, and honours me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

 

[Grace777x70]

The Law has not been done away with. It is that we Christians are "have died to the Law" SO THAT we could be joined to another - Christ Himself. The Law is made for the unrighteous and NOT for the righteous. 1 Tim. 1:9 We are the righteous ones in Christ.

The Christian has died to the Law, been released from the Law, and is not under the Law any more and the Law is NOT of faith. It can't get much plainer then that.

Died to the Law:

Romans 7:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

( bearing fruit for God is NOT based on the Law but based on our union with Christ Himself )

Been released from the Law:

Romans 7:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Not under the Law:

Romans 6:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.


The Law is NOT of faith: The righteous shall live by faith - faith in what Christ has done.

Galatians 3:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."

( If people are going to live by the Law - they need to live by them - every Law - not pick and choose to water down the Law to make it seem "do-able". James says to break one law is to be guilty of the whole law )

 

[followjesus]

Your mentor Joseph Prince teaches that gnostic garbage.

John always spoke to believers, just like all the other epistles do.

thats exactly it But you have to understand thats nececcatated because its a false dovtrine, so anything that shows it to be false then has to be excluded from thier version. its where allll of this stuff comes from " The Gospel really is not what Jesus spoke, its really the version 2.0 of the law. this one is how they exclude all Jesus says of repentance, righteousness, obedience, and the final Judgement based on Deeds. this labeled not for christians because it smashes the gog. or certain epistles that speak of the same exact Gospel principles reoentance righteousness, deeds reality, those things then have to be excluded by fables like how this part of this letter was for jews only like James and 1 John. where they makes perfectly clear its faith and works are not seperable, and when John talks of not sinning and that your obedience to the commandments is actually what God recognizes as Love. there is no end to the stories of why this or that just doesnt apply from this bizzare doctrine of the anti christ.

but its necassary because the intention is to spread that doctrine that opposes the truth. its the Only move these folks have to wither see all the straight forward you mnust repent and if not you will not inherit eternal Life stuff and counter it with plucked out seemingly conditionless doctrine, and pit the 2 against ach other, even though they are in the same letters to the same church. or they have to use bizzare explainations of why this or that doesnt apply. its so obvious to anyone who actually does believe the Bible, but i think that mostly they only believe what those false preachers are telling them to believe. because hey if im a pastor and need to sell my " gospel" i have to teach you what to believe and what to discard. and if i want to sell alot of my books and get all those 30 dollar Love gifts lol basically just selling my fantasy book, well i have to make it appeal to the masses and give them a false hope and explain that theres nothing you need to do, yoiur already saved. make sure to always see the good works as evil, make sure you believe repentance and righteousness are only inward dont ever thing you actually need to stop sinning and obey your GOD. because thats all a trap, you cant live right its. all you can do is says grace grace and then your saved. its just really an impenatrable false doctrine i believe it to be the worst one ive ever encountered because its easy to pluck out of pauls writings and make it pretty convincing. yet the thing that gives it away is what your saying more than is accepted ahs to be omitted, or you have to be told how you need to look at the plain truth and understand its not really saying what its saying the "grace lens" there really isnt an ounce of value to it, rather its poisoning the church, and promoting live how you wish. theres no spirit in it because theres no repentance from sin and oibedience to God allowed. those things just magiacally come because you think Jesus died and rose again the end. its gotta be close to one of those pastors quoting all the grace scriptures they can find and selling the " real bible"

I can hear the rpomotion now for just a 99 dollar love gift well send you this grace bible, now the all new version of Gods revolutionized word, you wont be confused by all that repent and obey stuff that is so bad for people. the teachings like communion guarantees your healing, that book though well need another 50 dollar " love gift" but it will change your life when you realize these truths God gave me for you. or maybe the grace that moves mountains teaching for only 29 dollar " love gift" youll learn how saying grace greace will move the mountains in your life"

and the bank account grows 500 million and counting. no shame or limit to what Love of money will do to a person. whats funny is ive noticed now creflo dollar is preaching jospeh princes version of the Gospel since he got in trouble for tax fraud, now hes moved from the health and wealth Gospel to re hashing all of jps top selling books. creflo saw the marketability to the masses and wants a peaice of the action. for years he explained How Jesus taught more about money than any other subject......he would use things like the parable of the talents and say they are a teaching about money. now Hes explaining everything jp made so popular only Hes labeling it His incredible revelation........kinda like jp explained God spoke to him and told Him about real Grace. its a terrible thing to see the would be church in such bondage and following reprobates,

 

[LoveGodForever]

Hi Grace777,

Comments in RED for your consideration

The Law has not been done away with. It is that we Christians are "have died to the Law" SO THAT we could be joined to another - Christ Himself. The Law is made for the unrighteous and NOT for the righteous.

So why do you break the 4th Commandment if "the Law is not done away with" ? Unrighteouness is sin and sin is the breaking of God's Law (1John 3:4)

1 Tim. 1:9 We are the righteous ones in Christ.

The Christian has died to the Law, been released from the Law, and is not under the Law any more and the Law is NOT of faith. It can't get much plainer then that.

Yes agreed the Law is our schoolmaster we are not saved by it (Gal 3:24-25)


Died to the Law:

Romans 7:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

( bearing fruit for God is NOT based on the Law but based on our union with Christ Himself )

Yes absolutely we need to abide in the vine (Jesus) He works in us to fulfill his Law in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. (John 15:5; Rom 8:1-4))


Been released from the Law:

Romans 7:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Not under the Law:

Romans 6:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

The Law is NOT of faith: The righteous shall live by faith - faith in what Christ has done.

Galatians 3:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."

( If people are going to live by the Law - they need to live by them - every Law - not pick and choose to water down the Law to make it seem "do-able". James says to break one law is to be guilty of the whole law )

Absolutely, Agree with the above. It is all about faith and letting Christ work in us to will and to do of His own good pleasure. God's Law points out sin. It is sin that is the transgression of God's Law and the wages of sin is death. Paul is talking about being dead to SIN.

Rom 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Still, the 4th commandment is one of God's commandments. Why do you not obey Jesus?

To be honest with you that is one of the best posts I have seen you make.

God bless

 

[followjesus]

Hi Grace777,

Let’s look at what you are saying above. So in your belief God’s Law (the 10 commandments) is the law of Moses and no longer required. Do you believe God when His Word says;

God’s Law (10 Commandments) is the work of God himself?

It was written with God’s own finger on two tables of stone?

God gave instruction that the 10 commandments were to be separate from everything else, including the laws of Moses and placed in the Ark of the Covenant?

It was spoken by God himself to His people?

If the 10 commandments were the same as all the other laws of Moses why did God go to all this trouble to do all the above himself?

You use the scripture in Romans 7:7 which undoes everything you have just said in your own previous words. This scripture says that it is through God’s Law that there is knowledge of Sin. This is what is being shared with you. For example, if you do not have God’s Law there is no knowledge of Sin. If there is no knowledge of Sin there is no need of a Saviour. If there is no need of a Saviour there is no salvation. If there is no salvation then the sinner that does not know he is a sinner is lost. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law. (James 1:22-25; Rom 2:12) I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance but go learn what that means. (Matt 9:13) You cannot have a Gospel without God's Law (10 commandments)


Scripture support

The Law of God (10 commandments) is the work of God himself (Ex 32:16; Ex 31:18; 32:16; Ex 20:1-22; Ex 31:18; Deut 4:13)God Law was to be separate from everything else (including the laws of Moses). God’s Law was placed inside the Ark of the Covenant the laws of Moses were written in a book and placed at the side of the Ark of the Covenant (Deut 10:5; Deut 31:24; 25). Whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecc 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul (Ps 19:7). It is the very foundation of the Old and New Covenants (Ex 20:1:17, Heb 8:10-12). It is the foundation of the Judgement were all of us will be Judged in the last days (Ecc 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1John 3:4, Acts 17:31) God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Ex 20:1-22). Jesus says Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away (Matt 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (Ps 111:7-8, Rev 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1John 3:5-8, 1John 2:3-4 etc.). The Law of God reveals sin to us so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4). It is the great standard of the judgement (Ecc 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and the character of God and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood (Gal 3:24; Rev 1:5). God writes His Law in our hearts so that we become like him and we follow him because we love him (Heb 8:10-12; ) LOVE is the fulfilling (doing) of God's Law (Rom 13:10). Still in force today (Ps 111:7-8, Rev 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1John 3:5-8, 1John 2:3-4 etc, etc.) God’s people obey it through faith (Rev 14:12)


So we need to believe you over the Word of God why?

Who do we follow, the Word of God or the traditions of man?

Cutting and pasting the same things over and over do not make them correct

Grace also believes that anything conditional in the 4 gospels is the law of moses He refuses things like this as well regarding the Law of God the ten commandments

romans 13:9 "For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


that is actually a quote FROM THE LAW OF MOSES.

LEVITICUS 19:18 "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

He doesnt get the fact that the gospel Keeps the law, Love keeps the Law. it doesnt replace it saying Love one another as thyself, that is a brief summary of the commandments. to keep the commandments is to Love each other right. all of those commandments, they teach what Love actually is to God.

1 john 5:2-3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


But after more than a year of debates hes always got a non biblical explaination of why the commandments just dont apply. He will also deny the Word of Jesus Christ in the Gospel.

Matthew 6:14-15 "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


things like this that have any condition, though they are found no where in the Law of moses, bruce insists Just dont apply to christians its actually what He calls the law 2.0 and then he will quote " you are dead to the Law through the body of Christ" in order to support this bizzare idea that Jesus was giving the Law of moses. everything that works to save us, the gog will deny to the bitter end by labeling it " not real grace therefore it doesnt apply. He will most likely say im " being deceitful" ifthats the case thios time ill go copy the hundreds of comments hes left on my posts expaining these things.


I hope you can get through to him He seems a nice guy at times and certainly God Loves Him too.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Grace also believes that anything conditional in the 4 gospels is the law of moses He refuses things like this as well regarding the Law of God the ten commandments

romans 13:9 "For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

that is actually a quote FROM THE LAW OF MOSES.

LEVITICUS 19:18 "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

He doesnt get the fact that the gospel Keeps the law, Love keeps the Law. it doesnt replace it saying Love one another as thyself, that is a brief summary of the commandments. to keep the commandments is to Love each other right. all of those commandments, they teach what Love actually is to God.

1 john 5:2-3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


But after more than a year of debates hes always got a non biblical explaination of why the commandments just dont apply. He will also deny the Word of Jesus Christ in the Gospel.

Matthew 6:14-15 "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

things like this that have any condition, though they are found no where in the Law of moses, bruce insists Just dont apply to christians its actually what He calls the law 2.0 and then he will quote " you are dead to the Law through the body of Christ" in order to support this bizzare idea that Jesus was giving the Law of moses. everything that works to save us, the gog will deny to the bitter end by labeling it " not real grace therefore it doesnt apply. He will most likely say im " being deceitful" ifthats the case thios time ill go copy the hundreds of comments hes left on my posts expaining these things.

I hope you can get through to him He seems a nice guy at times and certainly God Loves Him too.

Hi followjesus,

Absolutely, I believe God loves Grace777 as well as everyone of us here. I pray for him and others here as well. God is not willing that any of us should be lost but all should come to repentance and be saved. Sometimes it can be difficult to try and express yourself via the internet. It is only be God's love that we can know and follow Jesus. We only love Him because He first loved us. We can only find him though as we seek him through His Word because He is calling us to worship Him in Spirit and in truth.

God bless FJ

 

[Gabriel2020]

We have been redeemed from the curse that the law brings, which is death ,but not from the law itself., because if it had not been for the law, man would not have known their sins. We now keep the commandments that Jesus gave us, and his teaching. That is what justify us, our faith in him. That same law of old is the same one Jesus taught. it pertains to the old law by faith and not by works.

 

[followjesus]

No.
The Spirit leaves when you reject him in willful and determined unbelief, not doubt.

consider this as pertaining to the nature and character of Jesus. He taught the disciples this.

matthew 10:33 "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."

mark 14:66-71 "And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest: 67And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and said, And thou also wast with Jesus of Nazareth. 68But he denied, saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest. And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew. 69And a maid saw him again, and began to say to them that stood by, This is one of them. 70And he denied it again. And a little after, they that stood by said again to Peter, Surely thou art one of them: for thou art a Galilaean, and thy speech agreeth thereto. 71But he began to curse and to swear, saying, I know not this man of whom ye speak.

then peter repents from Godly sorrow when he realizes what hes done

And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.

another place says He weot bitterly and Heres what id like you to consider, according to the letter of rule here, Peter was Lost He would be denied by Jesus before God, but notice this 3 denials

john 21:15-17 "So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. 16He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 17He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
18Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not. 19This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

Now recall that what began this was Peter telling Jesus " Lord i will follow you anywhere " at the last supper.

see Peter denied Jesus after Jesus told them if anyone did that He would then deny them before God, yet He then comes back after peter had repented and asks Him 3 times do you truly Love me? Jesus is not willing that we be lost He will always be there with open arms IF we will repent in earnest and get back to loving Him through obediencs and following Him. its never too Late, the Holy spirit doesnt Leave, even if a person goes the opposite way, the spirit remains as a witness of the persons actions. Just receiving the Holy spirit, doesnt guarantee salvation, it gusrantees eternity, but where we spend eternity is up to us to either respond, or refuse to do so. repentance is always there and available it just Gets harder and harder the Longer we refuse to repent and obey.

 

[stillness]

Many in the church, think they are secure, but not following the Lord. Many are thought to get saved, "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved." it's also written, "For we are saved if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Are these 2 verses saying the same thing? According to the second verse you are not yet saved, you have not yet finished your course. Can you solve the riddle? "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, henceforth is laid up for me a crown of righteousness... and not for me only but all who Love his appearing."
I will not leave you in the dark, if you have not solved the puzzle don't feel bad most Christians think they are already saved by Grace. If we read again with emphasis on word meaning instead of mental ascent as believing; you will find the 2 verses are saying the same thing. Some get mad because it takes away their eternal security of living in their comfort zone, but its not meant to take away our secure place in Christ, but to face that being saved: we don't stay the way we are.

Believe (follow) Jesus and you shall (our security is remaining in Him whom we follow and implied in shall) be saved.
What would cause someone to fall from grace when nothing can separate us from the Love of Christ; why is there a falling away prophesied before the end, "Many shall be offended and shall betray one another to death." The answer is between the lines, can you see it. "For if you forgive not, neither will your Father in heaven forgive you." Refusing to walk in Love is rejecting the Holy Ghost. "All manner of sin shall be forgiven to man but rejecting the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven to man."

 

[followjesus]

Many in the church, think they are secure, but not following the Lord. Many are thought to get saved, "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved." it's also written, "For we are saved if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Are these 2 verses saying the same thing? According to the second verse you are not yet saved, you have not yet finished your course. Can you solve the riddle? "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, henceforth is laid up for me a crown of righteousness... and not for me only but all who Love his appearing."
I will not leave you in the dark, if you have not solved the puzzle don't feel bad most Christians think they are already saved by Grace. If we read again with emphasis on word meaning instead of mental ascent as believing; you will find the 2 verses are saying the same thing. Some get mad because it takes away their eternal security of living in their comfort zone, but its not meant to take away our secure place in Christ, but to face that being saved: we don't stay the way we are.

Believe (follow) Jesus and you shall (our security is remaining in Him whom we follow and implied in shall) be saved.
What would cause someone to fall from grace when nothing can separate us from the Love of Christ; why is there a falling away prophesied before the end, "Many shall be offended and shall betray one another to death." The answer is between the lines, can you see it. "For if you forgive not, neither will your Father in heaven forgive you." Refusing to walk in Love is rejecting the Holy Ghost. "All manner of sin shall be forgiven to man but rejecting the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven to man."

amen very edifying stuff there God bless you, this is spot on !

 

[Magenta]

Many in the church, think they are secure, but not following the Lord. Many are thought to get saved, "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved." it's also written, "For we are saved if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Are these 2 verses saying the same thing? According to the second verse you are not yet saved, you have not yet finished your course. Can you solve the riddle? "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, henceforth is laid up for me a crown of righteousness... and not for me only but all who Love his appearing."
I will not leave you in the dark, if you have not solved the puzzle don't feel bad most Christians think they are already saved by Grace. If we read again with emphasis on word meaning instead of mental ascent as believing; you will find the 2 verses are saying the same thing. Some get mad because it takes away their eternal security of living in their comfort zone, but its not meant to take away our secure place in Christ, but to face that being saved: we don't stay the way we are.

Believe (follow) Jesus and you shall (our security is remaining in Him whom we follow and implied in shall) be saved.
What would cause someone to fall from grace when nothing can separate us from the Love of Christ; why is there a falling away prophesied before the end, "Many shall be offended and shall betray one another to death." The answer is between the lines, can you see it. "For if you forgive not, neither will your Father in heaven forgive you." Refusing to walk in Love is rejecting the Holy Ghost. "All manner of sin shall be forgiven to man but rejecting the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven to man."

Who here do you believe is only in mental assent, rejecting the Holy Spirit of God?

 

[Magenta]

He bled and died for more people who refuse to receive him than those who will. So your argument is kind of baseless.

Those who do not repent are NOT His children so you are wrong, PHart.

 

[Gabriel2020]

The falling away is those that have rejected God all their lives, and because they have ,will easily be deceived by the lawless one, the son of perdiction. the one who will perform great signs and wonders, and call himself God.They will be given a strong delusion to believe that lie. he will not give it to those that are his. Even a baby Christian won't fall for that deception. He did not say a falling away of the church.

 

[followjesus]

if your set free, what are you set free from.

for example

a jewish belief system, at the time of jesus life, put jesus on the cross.

a man made religion system , controlled by humans was never god s goal.

that your expaliantion of what were supposed to be set free from Heres what Jesus and paul both say though

romans 6:What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness."

paul said this because Jesus said this

John 8:31-34 "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

when we say we are a sinner, were saying were a slave to sin, or a servant to sin, sin had overcame mankind to the point ( romans 7) where even when we want to do right Knowing Gods Law we couldnt, because sin is part of human nature, whether were a great sinner, or just a small sinner, to be a sinner means you are servant to sin which is the will of satan. That is what Jesus came to make us free from, the dominion of sin over our Life. the control it has over us so that even when we try hard to abstain were still going to sin and fall short.

whats the answer to this dilemna? Heres paul explaining what i just said, this is the issue that Jesus came to solve

romans 7:14-24 "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

realize this is not pauls description of a child of God, but of the Human sinful nature we inherited from adam paul is illustrating the issue and then He continues to show Whats been done to solve this problem of being captive to this law of sin within us

romans 8:2-7 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (7:23) 3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: why ?

4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


to really Get what pauls saying go find what Hes saying about this in the epistles, heres 1 example what is it to mind the flesh?

Galatians 5:16-21 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. ( notice here how paul is saying the same thing as in romans)

18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: ( now you know that walking after the flesh includes what you actually do and the result of continuing on afterthe flesh in these ways?) >>>>of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


Jesus and His Gospel of the spirit of Life ( john 6:63, john 8:31-32) sets the DISCIPLE free from the power of sin to control us. it takes sinners forgives thier pasts so that they are reconciled to God, and then through obedience to the Gospel, sets us free from the slavery to sin we had always Known. this is pauls major message in almost all of His words, its why he always refers to " when you were in the flesh, and now you are in the spirit" or you are new creations, the old is Gone the new has come" when he talks of crucifying the flesh" when he talks of mortifying the deeds pf the Body" all of His wordings are geared toward the message of what God has done for us in condemning the sin that was in our hearts that caused us to do evil, even when we were trying hard to be good according to Gods Law. even though we arent Jews Gods Law is in our Hearts because man was made from God and in His image, the ten commandments are within us its why people hide things they do that are wrong like affairs, they know its wrong so they hide it, or murders , most know lying is wrong ect.


until we accept that were not like we were before, just sinners with no ability to live a Children of God in word and deed, we will just spin the wheels in the mud and argue about things. the truth is that Jesus has accomplished everything we need to now do our part, because we really are new.