Not By Works

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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Hi mailmandan. I totally agree with you...John 6:44 tells us clearly "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. It is God only through His Grace that calls us to His beloved Son, it`s a desire He puts on our hearts, any church, person etc forcing people to get baptized, saved does not mean anything, it has to come from God, and God alone...xox...
Yes and although we are commanded to BELIEVE and will be held accountable for UNBELIEF, (John 3:18) saving belief/faith is never exclusively a matter of human decision.

Unless the Father draws us in (John 6:44) and enables us/unless it has been granted to him by My Father (John 6:65) we would NEVER come to saving faith in Christ all by ourselves.

The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ either, we must choose Him. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God.
 
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Water baptism does not save people.
water baptism is a spiritual symbolic act that either kicks of your process of daily hoping for your manna or it doesnt...


God the father decides when you get saved...

john 6:44 no one can come to the son unless the father sends you..
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
You don't tell a five month old baby to walk and get to work building their own house, but you yell at a child of God if they don't have any works to prove to you that they are saved?

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

God sends His holy spirit to reveal who are His children and others don't get to judge them as unworthy and undeserving. All are sinners in need of grace and God chastens all His legimate children.

Sometimes God carries us a while before he puts us down and teaches us how to walk with Him.

Sometimes the world breaks out legs and we have to rely on our brethren to carry us back into His presence,

Sometimes we may lose our way,but God is always calling us back home to Him.

God loves us.

Why is that so hard for some to believe?
 
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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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There's no such thing as the unforgiveable sin of works for salvation.
Works keep us saved.
It's all over the New Testament for anyone who cares to read it properly.
I would say that works do not keep us saved.

It is by the grace of God we are saved by faith.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Per NKJV bible study notes

2:8–10 Christians have been saved by grace. The grace of God is the source of salvation; faith is the channel, not the cause. God alone saves. Salvation never originates in the efforts of people; it always arises out of the lovingkindness of God. Truly, “salvation is of the Lord” (Jon. 2:9). The past tense of the verb saved in this passage indicates that the believer’s salvation has already occurred in the past, at the Cross. the gift of God: We cannot do anything to earn our salvation. Some suggest that the gift of God modifies the word faith in this verse. Thus Paul is saying that even our belief in God does not originate in ourselves. This too is a gift.

But what is apparent we have been created in Jesus (don't fully understand that bit) for good works, to do good works, to become more like him.

Good works are evidence of faith.

Just to add a side note as a believer we can still have bad works, but as Jesus increases in us then bad works decreases.
The fruit of the spirt grows.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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Yes and although we are commanded to BELIEVE and will be held accountable for UNBELIEF, (John 3:18) saving belief/faith is never exclusively a matter of human decision.

Unless the Father draws us in (John 6:44) and enables us/unless it has been granted to him by My Father (John 6:65) we would NEVER come to saving faith in Christ all by ourselves.

The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ either, we must choose Him. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God.
Amen...xox...
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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water baptism is a spiritual symbolic act that either kicks of your process of daily hoping for your manna or it doesnt...
God the father decides when you get saved...
john 6:44 no one can come to the son unless the father sends you..
Water baptism does not save you. Just admit it already :)
 
Mar 7, 2016
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You don't tell a five month old baby to walk and get to work building their own house, but you yell at a child of God if they don't have any works to prove to you that they are saved?

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.
the bible makes reference that you can show your faith by your works...is this a lie too ?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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How do you reconcile this with.... JESUS Himself is saying the verses in John and Titus.

Ephesians 2:10 We are made for good works.

John 15:2 Every branch IN JESUS that does not bear fruit, the Father cuts away.

Titus 2:14 Jesus gave Himself for us, to redeem us of every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a pure people,
ZEALOUS for GOOD WORKS.
When Jesus said every branch in me in John 15:2, how many people at that time had received the Holy Spirit (John 7:37-39) and were baptized by one Spirit into one body "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13) I see "in me" as part of the metaphor of the vine (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established.

As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out, there are two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). - John 15:2 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

These verses are reconciled when you realize that Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit (John 15:2) yet Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stopped bearing fruit. Those whose relationship to Christ is self attached (like Judas Iscariot), Jesus neither elected them, nor saved them, nor keeps them. Eventually, the fruitless branches are identified as not belonging to the vine and are cut off.
 
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Well, probably. You put me on ignore. I was only posting what I believed to be truth and you said it was making you look bad. I don't understand that.

I like to discuss issues and reason together. Not really into insults.
I looked it up. It was back in March, LOL! The right phrase was "little nagging ankle biter", lol!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I would say that works do not keep us saved.
Amen! From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works. Salvation "maintained" by works is type 2 works salvation.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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Grieving the Holy spirit leads to chastenment.....how many people would adopt a child and throw them out as soon as they misbehave?

Why do some worship a god who is more cruel then most humans?

God's love transforms the heart and mind. His Holy spirit teaches us how to be more like Him and walk in His light and love.

If God does not correct and teach us, we aren't His children and either still under the Old Covenant (the Law haven't fully lead us to Christ) or trapped by Satan's lies.

right, if God is correcting and teaching us, then isnt there our opart in that to accept the correction and change what He is correcting? or does He correct us and then obey for us as well? thats the difference. if we refuse to be corrected and continue on in disobedience ignoring That Loving Father then what happens?

you guys dont Get something really important. Sin is deadly it will Kill the spirit in us, we Know this already from the Garden through all of the examples all through the bible, the flood which doesnt make God " cruel" yet He destroyed all the people on earth and the animals saving only seeds of each Kind and 8 Humans to carry mankind on. The reason He did this was Because of sin. when God is teaching us what not to do, its Like telling your kid dont play on the freeway a car will run you over, or better its like telling your adult child, you absolutely Have to stop using heroin, it will kill you son, stop, i will pay for your treatment, but you have to be wiling to go to treatment and do the steps to get clean.

its not that sin is just a small principle like well when you get around to it, then repent if you want to. its Life and death. Jesus dying doesnt then mean sin is no big Deal its a sacrificial system of forgiveness that requires repentance. and because of the spirit, we no longer have the excuse " we cant change or were just slaves to sin we have no choice" yes, Jesus sets free of sins dominion over us thats what the gospel is and what it does for those who Hear and follow His Word of Life.

if the heroin addict refuses to go into detox and treatment and then they overdose and die or heroin destroys thier organs and they die, IT IS NOT THE FATHERS FAULT. He was there telling them every day, stop son youll die, ill pay for your treatment and take you into my Home when you are done. its not Gods fault if we follow sin to hell it just isnt. He gave Jesus to great suffering and death to pay for our freedom and Lives, we have to believe because if a person does they will then believe what He is saying and if they do theyll understand " Ok Hes saying i need to do these things and Hes saying Gods spirit is in me so i am able through His power to get off the heroin and come back to real life like when i was a child and clean, innocent"

God doesnt throw anyone away hes made the same offer, same provision for all men the difference is some will believe and therefore do and others will say they believe and think i dont really need to do what hes saying. God is the One who made the way for us and enables us daily to walk that path He laid out. if we do not follow we will not be saved well end up the dead guy on heroin that Loved the drug more than Life. sin is a powerful delusion and its also poison to the soul. its master is clever and comes up with a hundred ways why " its okay to go on in this, Gods good hell never Keep His word about sin being death" But His word will come to pass both blessing and warning.

God is not cruel in any way whatsoever, Hes given His Only begotten Son to the agony of the terrible day of the cross all His suffering all His pain and tears all the shame He endured each nail that held Him to the cross, thats what the price was for our " detox and treatment from sin" thats what God did for us. He has given all he will ever Give to pay that price its not going to happen another way or time. an now we have the option to either go into treatment and get clean, or we can disregard the offer and go on using sin. But assuredly without a doubt, to refuse the way provided will lead to eternal damnation. its fact. and God isnt to be blamed for those who refuse what He did, again He gave His dear Son His only Son for us. the way is sufficient the choice is ours.
 
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Amen! From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works. Salvation "maintained" by works is type 2 works salvation.
repent and be saved dont repent and be mean hearted the rest of your life.. which one will God allow into his kingdom ?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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repent and be saved dont repent and be mean hearted the rest of your life.. which one will God allow into his kingdom ?
Faith in Christ is not without repentance (Acts 20:21). If someone does not repent, then they will not believe the gospel and become saved.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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I don't think you are reading this correctly Fran.

~Col 1:22  InG1722 theG3588 bodyG4983 of hisG848 fleshG4561 throughG1223 death,G2288 to presentG3936 youG5209 holyG40 andG2532 unblameableG299 andG2532 unreproveableG410 in his sight:G2714G848 


Col 1:23  IfG1489 ye continueG1961 in theG3588 faithG4102 groundedG2311 andG2532 settled,G1476 andG2532be notG3361 moved awayG3334 fromG575 theG3588 hopeG1680 of theG3588 gospel,G2098 whichG3739 ye have heard,G191and which was preachedG2784 toG1722 everyG3956 creatureG2937 whichG3588 is underG5259 heaven;G3772 whereofG3739 IG1473 PaulG3972 am madeG1096 a minister;G1249 


Paul's Ministry to the Church
Col 1:24  WhoG3739 nowG3568 rejoiceG5463 inG1722 myG3450 sufferingsG3804 forG5228 you,G5216 andG2532 fill upG466 that which is behindG5303 of theG3588 afflictionsG2347 of ChristG5547 inG1722 myG3450 fleshG4561 for his body's sake,G5228G846G4983 which isG3603 theG3588 church:G1577

Throughout our life as we go through sufferings, testings, and even provision and joys...if we continue grounded in our faith of the gospel...we will be presented at the jugdement seat of Christ holy, a life that was separated to Him, holding fast to the Head, without blame, and without reproof.

We endure temptations and trials as an overcomer...by the blood of the Lamb and the Word of His testimony. His work finished. This has to do with crowns. Rewards.

And we endure in faith and love. That will have great reward.

[/QUOTE]

What am I not understanding?

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Colossians 1:22 states that through the Death of Jesus we can be presented holy and unblamable and unreprovable to God Father. Jesus' blood has washed us and He keeps us safe.

Colossians 1:23 IF WE CONTINUE IN THE FAITH grounded and settled and not moved away from the HOPE OF THE GOSPEL.
Which everyone has heard and which was preached by Paul.

We will be saved IF WE CONTINUE in the faith.
And what is our faith?
It must certainly be what Jesus taught.

Paul himself says that Jesus gave Himself for us to redeem us for lawless deeds and PURIFY for Himself a people for His own possession, ZEALOUS FOR GOOD WORKS.

Ephesians 2:10 tells us that God created us for good works in Christ Jesus.

If we read Philippians 3:9-14 Paul is saying that we do not have a righteousness of our own, derived ONLY from works, THE LAW, But we have righteousness through faith in Christ.

This does not abolish the Law...Mathew 5:17. It does give us a new way to follow it and to make our work count for something since it is for God that we work and not for man.

In Philippians 3:12-14 Paul says that he feels he has not yet attained the prize for which he works. But he presses on that he may lay hold of it. He says that he does not have the prize YET.

Though we are saved by grace through our faith in Jesus, we are STILL expected to do good works. This faith of ours does not exhonorate us from good works.

Romans 12:6-20 is packed with those works we are to do.


Romans 12:6-20 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

6 Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, [a]according to the proportion of his faith;

7 if service, in his serving; or he who teaches, in his teaching;

8 or he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who gives, with [c]liberality; he who [d]leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good.

10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; [e]give preference to one another in honor;

11 not lagging behind in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord;

12 rejoicing in hope, persevering in tribulation, devoted to prayer,

13 contributing to the needs of the [f]saints, [g]practicing hospitality.

14 Bless those who persecute [h]you; bless and do not curse.

15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep.

16 Be of the same mind toward one another; do not be haughty in mind, but associate with the lowly. Do not be wise in your own estimation.

17 Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. [j]Respect what is right in the sight of all men.

18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.

19 Never take your own revenge, beloved, but [k]leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.

20 “But if your enemy is hungry, feed him, and if he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.”