Not By Works

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royalscot

royalscot

Banned
#23,741
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
18
0
#23,741
JIMBO43 said:
does learning something new come with any strings with you ?
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history, just came into my head,to give me proof, so i could come here, and comment on your posts.

and i studded the bible for fun, because i would have to come here and post on cc, and explain to a slow coach ,


what that got to do with my post, authenticate or debunk, that post.

if you cannot comment in context to that post. there is always hair cutting school .
 
Last edited:
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#23,742
Apr 7, 2014
25,475
13,419
113
58
#23,742
PHart said:
Many Christians go on-line to insist that if they have to continue to believe in order to be saved then they are trying to earn their salvation. I just go by what comes out of their mouth.
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If faith is firmly rooted and established in Christ from the start, then why wouldn't it continue? How do believers force themselves to continue to believe? I can see where shallow, temporary belief that has no root (which does not represent saving faith in Christ) would fail to continue.

I could not imagine waking up one day and saying I no longer believe and hereby withdraw my faith in Christ for salvation. Faith in Christ is too engrained in me and I'm too convinced to simply stop believing.
 
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PHart

Guest
#23,743
#23,743
"7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned."

"9But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. 10For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name"

(Hebrews 6:7-10 NASB)

Read it: Works accompany salvation. People without works will be burned up in the end.
Who is in disagreement with this?

If nobody disagrees with the passage above (works accompany salvation, no works sends you to the fire at the Judgment) let's all go home and let this thread die..............please.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#23,744
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
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#23,744
PHart said:
"7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned."

"9But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. 10For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name"

(Hebrews 6:7-10 NASB)

Read it: Works accompany salvation. People without works will be burned up in the end.
Who is in disagreement with this?

If nobody disagrees with the passage above (works accompany salvation, no works sends you to the fire at the Judgment) let's all go home and let this thread die..............please.
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Of course MANY disagree......your "No works sends you to the fire" just does not jive with eternal salvation and....

NOT by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy HAS HE SAVED US <--past tense

This one verse contradicts your required works that one MUST have or burn....WE HAVE BEEN SAVED (past tense) according to MERCY

ETERNAL means ETERNAL, NOT temporary and or ALMOST eternal or POSSIBLY eternal..........
 
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PHart

Guest
#23,745
#23,745
mailmandan said:
I could not imagine waking up one day and saying I no longer believe and hereby withdraw my faith in Christ for salvation. Faith in Christ is too engrained in me and I'm too convinced to simply stop believing.
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I'm sure YOU can't. But does that have to mean that it's true for everyone else, too?

I know by nature we tend to assume that all people surely must think and feel and do like we do. But that simply isn't true. It was a big growth spurt for me when God made me realize I should not project my feelings and expectations onto others simply because I feel a certain way about something and can't fathom them being different.
 
FlSnookman7

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
#23,746
Jun 27, 2015
1,125
135
63
#23,746
[h=1]Romans 8:1King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

And what is required to walk in the spirit??

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

If we are saved then the Spirit of God dwells in us. Not if we are saved and then do this or that. The height of arrogance is to assume we must or even are capable of doing ANYTHING to add to Christ's finished work on the cross. Put down your ego and pride and have faith that Jesus did what He said He did.

[/FONT]
 
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PHart

Guest
#23,747
#23,747
dcontroversal said:
Of course MANY disagree......your "No works sends you to the fire" just does not jive with eternal salvation and....

NOT by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy HAS HE SAVED US <--past tense

This one verse contradicts your required works that one MUST have or burn....WE HAVE BEEN SAVED (past tense) according to MERCY

ETERNAL means ETERNAL, NOT temporary and or ALMOST eternal or POSSIBLY eternal..........
Click to expand...
But you have said in past posts that saved people will have works.
But now you are defending the works-less 'saved' person (again).

You have to make up your mind: You have to decide between saved people invariably producing works, and 'eternal life' meaning saved people are still saved even if they get to the Judgment as a barren field full of thorns and thistles. Which is it?

If you choose the latter, you will be in direct contradiction with the Hebrews passage I posted. The author said 'works accompany salvation', and 'barren fields will be burned in the end'. You either believe what he said, or you don't. What's it going to be?
 
royalscot

royalscot

Banned
#23,748
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
18
0
#23,748
29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.


20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith


30 For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience,



Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!
34 "For who has known the mind of the Lord,
or who has been his counselor?"
35 "Or who has given a gift to him
that he might be repaid?"



36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.Romans 11
 
Limey410v2

Limey410v2

Senior Member
#23,749
Jul 2, 2017
416
77
28
#23,749
PHart said:
But you have said in past posts that saved people will have works.
But now you are defending the works-less 'saved' person (again).

You have to make up your mind: You have to decide between saved people invariably producing works, and 'eternal life' meaning saved people are still saved even if they get to the Judgment as a barren field full of thorns and thistles. Which is it?

If you choose the latter, you will be in direct contradiction with the Hebrews passage I posted. The author said 'works accompany salvation', and 'barren fields will be burned in the end'. You either believe what he said, or you don't. What's it going to be?
Click to expand...
Saved folks don't produce works, the work is produced in saved folks.

You see God is the producer, when men "do works" often times they are just thinking they are doing Gods work, attributing everything they do to a "work of God" and such things like that, but is it really God's work being done?

If a person were to truly evaluate themselves honestly, and ask God honestly would they get the answer they are looking for?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#23,750
#23,750
PHart said:
"7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned."

"9But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. 10For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name"

(Hebrews 6:7-10 NASB)

Read it: Works accompany salvation. People without works will be burned up in the end.
Who is in disagreement with this?

If nobody disagrees with the passage above (works accompany salvation, no works sends you to the fire at the Judgment) let's all go home and let this thread die..............please.
Click to expand...
why did you miss the most important part,

if it yields thorns and thistles, it is close to being cursed, in the luv, it is near to being cursed, who's end is to be burned.

it is talking about our fruit, our reward, same as 1 cor, gold silver precious stone wood hay and straw, yet he himself will be saved even if his work is burned, even as though through fire,

so no, your interpretation is flawed because you focused on the wrong part.

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#23,751
#23,751
PHart said:
I'm sure YOU can't. But does that have to mean that it's true for everyone else, too?

I know by nature we tend to assume that all people surely must think and feel and do like we do. But that simply isn't true. It was a big growth spurt for me when God made me realize I should not project my feelings and expectations onto others simply because I feel a certain way about something and can't fathom them being different.
Click to expand...
Who wouod leave a god who did them no wrong? Who always treated them right, and gave them anything they ever needed?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#23,752
#23,752
PHart said:
But you have said in past posts that saved people will have works.
But now you are defending the works-less 'saved' person (again).

You have to make up your mind: You have to decide between saved people invariably producing works, and 'eternal life' meaning saved people are still saved even if they get to the Judgment as a barren field full of thorns and thistles. Which is it?

If you choose the latter, you will be in direct contradiction with the Hebrews passage I posted. The author said 'works accompany salvation', and 'barren fields will be burned in the end'. You either believe what he said, or you don't. What's it going to be?
Click to expand...

Nope, stop it please, your slander is not nice, no one is supporting a workless believer, a workless believer has never seen God, his faith was dead.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#23,753
#23,753
Wow....I think the kitchen has burnt to a cinder....read a page or two after my last post and slipped to the last page....I don't think I am going to take the time to read it.

Gonna draw comic book characters to match the costumes I just made for my kids so we can go to a comic book convention with my mother in law...

Used 5 rolls of duct tape already, lol. Making 4 costumes in a week is tough.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#23,754
#23,754
I will state that EG hasn't changed his position...,y'all who are attacking him have misunderstood his position from the beginning and that is why you think he is wishy washy.

He believes that works do not save, only faith does.
.however he believes after a person is saved They will have fruit. He has stated that people who are truly saved, will not be lost because God will always draw them back.

He does believe that those who walk away from God forever were never saved in the first place.

Correct me if I got any of that wrong EG,

When I skimmed the thread I saw someone call you double-minded and wanted to say I totally disagree with that assesment and will pray for all to calm down and pray before re-engaging one another in humble loving conversation.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#23,755
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#23,755
PHart said:
But you have said in past posts that saved people will have works.
But now you are defending the works-less 'saved' person (again).

You have to make up your mind: You have to decide between saved people invariably producing works, and 'eternal life' meaning saved people are still saved even if they get to the Judgment as a barren field full of thorns and thistles. Which is it?

If you choose the latter, you will be in direct contradiction with the Hebrews passage I posted. The author said 'works accompany salvation', and 'barren fields will be burned in the end'. You either believe what he said, or you don't. What's it going to be?
Click to expand...
There is no contradiction.....

faith and faith alone saves end of story.....what you seem to skip right over is the fact that everyone who has biblically trusted into Christ has done the WORK of the FATHER.....

to then say ONE MUST have works or they will burn denies the above truth.........that is the point................now the question that gets swept under the rug....

HOW MANY WORKS or PIECES of fruit are required to prove saving faith....?

Before you answer...reference POINT one above....bolded.....especially the underlined....!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#23,756
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#23,756
Limey410v2 said:
Saved folks don't produce works, the work is produced in saved folks.

You see God is the producer, when men "do works" often times they are just thinking they are doing Gods work, attributing everything they do to a "work of God" and such things like that, but is it really God's work being done?

If a person were to truly evaluate themselves honestly, and ask God honestly would they get the answer they are looking for?
Click to expand...
AMEN.....all glory goes to GOD.......JESUS does the work through us as a living sacrifice.......
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#23,757
Feb 24, 2015
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#23,757
Grace777x70 said:
How can we expect any truth from those that say our loving Father throws His children into the lake of fire?
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The above comment is from someone who does not know God but is overwhelmed with their heart of love despite holiness, righteousness and truth.

Ananias and Sapphira sinned and died. People eat communion in an inappropriate manner and died, Korahs rebellion was judged, Jesus told parables against those who believed and did nothing,
the 7 churches are warned to be overcomers, we are exhorted to walk the faith, to not believe in vain, yet here the idea is God would not judge His children?

God is a God of blessing and acceptance of those who have communion with Him, and walk in His
ways. Only false teachers teach there is another way.

What is shocking to me is to read someone who believe so sincerely despite Gods clear word, though His love is unbelievable through the cross, it does not extend to contradicting His holiness or truth.

Day in, day out, this belief that people and their behaviour is not an issue only faith matters
seems to possess some like a religion.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#23,758
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#23,758
Hypocracy

There are logical consequences to every position held.
But it is possible to hold two opposite positions and claim they do not contradict.

So I can say the life of a seed is held in the seed, and when planted springs to life shown
by shoots.

I could also hold that the plant does not have to spring to life to prove the seed has life.
But in reality the whole point of the seed is to create a plant that grows. If there is no plant
nothing has happened.

In all our churches there are people who will come along, partake but never come to faith.
They like the social aspect of church but not its consequences.

The real feeling is of being abandoned and it not being fair, they were not that different from
the believers so why should they be judged and not others.

But have people truly understood who God is and how communion with Him is everything?
To most sin is just a minor slip, a problem that can be removed or forgotten about, it is all about
show and getting by. But this demonstrates how far the people who hold this view are from God
Himself and the realities He declares.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#23,759
#23,759
Ariel82 said:
I will state that EG hasn't changed his position...,y'all who are attacking him have misunderstood his position from the beginning and that is why you think he is wishy washy.

He believes that works do not save, only faith does.
.however he believes after a person is saved They will have fruit. He has stated that people who are truly saved, will not be lost because God will always draw them back.

He does believe that those who walk away from God forever were never saved in the first place.

Correct me if I got any of that wrong EG,

When I skimmed the thread I saw someone call you double-minded and wanted to say I totally disagree with that assesment and will pray for all to calm down and pray before re-engaging one another in humble loving conversation.
Click to expand...
basically yes, this is as I see it.
 
JIMBO43

JIMBO43

Banned
#23,760
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
#23,760
Ariel82 said:
I will state that EG hasn't changed his position...,y'all who are attacking him have misunderstood his position from the beginning and that is why you think he is wishy washy.

He believes that works do not save, only faith does.
.however he believes after a person is saved They will have fruit. He has stated that people who are truly saved, will not be lost because God will always draw them back.

He does believe that those who walk away from God forever were never saved in the first place.

Correct me if I got any of that wrong EG,

When I skimmed the thread I saw someone call you double-minded and wanted to say I totally disagree with that assesment and will pray for all to calm down and pray before re-engaging one another in humble loving conversation.
Click to expand...
yup he also said and quoted in the past that people who disobeyed God or abandon who claim they are saved where never truly saved in the first place.. hes also changed his beliefs several times and done more than his fair share of attacking.. and then he has the cheek to turn it around on one member and have meg blamed for his behaviour i call that trouble, and unstable and dangerous you however call that good aerial.. aerial pls remind to come for you for advice in the future:rolleyes:
 
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