Not By Works

[JIMBO43]

2 COR 4:13 [SUP]13 [/SUP]We, having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written: “I believed and therefore have I spoken” — we also believe and therefore speak,


[h=1]2 COR 4:13 AMP[/h] [SUP]13 [/SUP]Yet we have the same spirit of faith as he had, who wrote in Scripture, “I believed, therefore I spoke.” We also believe, therefore we also speak,


Could this mean we do have a seed of faith from birth too ?

 

[Stephen63]

All works of the flesh are "willful" sinning. When we have outbursts of anger - we are actively participating in it. The same goes for all the works of the flesh from malice, the slandering others in the body of Christ to hypocrisy, living a homosexual lifestyle, causing strife and division...etc.

The "willful sinning" talked about in Hebrews 10:26 is about the Hebrews going back to the temple for their sins being dealt with and thus rejecting the sacrifice of Christ for the forgiveness of sins. This is why there remains no more sacrifice for their sins because they are rejecting Christ's work.

Works-based belief mindsets like to try to use Hebrews 10 to bring fear to Christians but the reality is that we are safe in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection. There are many warnings which we should heed about living from the flesh and the destruction it brings in this life but that is a different subject then Hebrews 10.

This is also a lie.

If all sinning is willfully intentional, The word "willful" would not need to be used.

"Willful sinning" definitely denotes something different than falling into sin & repenting like a christian does.

Go to the commentaries..... they all say the same thing.

 

[Stephen63]

NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in v. 29 seems to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.

*In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse. (And by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul clearly explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the Sabbath was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), the Lord was saved (Leviticus 10:3), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.

In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So after considering the context, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as an active participant in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but who has committed apostasy by renouncing his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.

In regards to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

Read the commentaries..... you're wrong.

 

[stonesoffire]

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

1. I am full of grace, again, that is why I am fully saved. Your the one who is depending on insufficient grace my friend
2. Another attack.. You have nothing to say but attack, mind if I ask why you are here?Satan was not born dead now was he?

Satan also is not offered grace and a chance to be saved now is he?

So your question concerning grace and satan is not valid.. is it?? You can not compare Satan and mankind.


Just one more question your post here does yet again et declare your saved and where not.. which makes you in the same leaugue as those who lets Gods enabling grace say... i am better than you because i have fruited and you havent... i bet some who have this power have took this attitude,,, what do you think et.. ?????????????????????????????????????

Disagreeing is not an attack. Unless he says something personal about you. He didn't.

 

[Stephen63]

PHart, you asked for someone who teaches a false works based gospel...saw this thread by a Muslim recruiter today..,i believe Islam teaches a works based false gospel.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/156181-covenants-mohammed.html

Muslim beliefs are not a "gospel" at all.

You did search everywhere to find one, though.

 

[stonesoffire]

a dove, and it abode upon him.

Holy Spirit within and anointed both within and without. Are we? I think so. Abiding. In: en fixed postion.

 

[JIMBO43]

The word "sanctified" means "set apart".

All people in the world have been "sanctified" as in "set apart" for the gospel. That is what Hebrews 10:29 means.

Hebrews 10:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.


Gold in the Old Covenant was "sanctified" - set apart for use in the temple as well as the priest garments.

If these Jewish people sin wilfully by rejecting Christ's sacrifice for sins they are insulting the Spirit of grace and counting the blood as a common thing by which he has been sanctified ( set apart).


Jesus blood is what cleanses us and the Lamb of God has taken away the sin of the world but people must believe and receive this truth.

So, all people are "sanctified" ( set apart ) for receiving the gospel message of Christ's work on the cross.

1 Timothy 4:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.


Here is another example of the use of "sanctified as in the setting apart for something."

Unbelievers that are spouses are "sanctified" ( set apart from others ) by the believing spouse.

1 Corinthians 7:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.

so how come you dont get that faith and grace are not a once in a lifetime event ?

 

[Rosemaryx]

2 COR 4:13 [SUP]13 [/SUP]We, having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written: “I believed and therefore have I spoken” — we also believe and therefore speak,


2 COR 4:13 AMP

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Yet we have the same spirit of faith as he had, who wrote in Scripture, “I believed, therefore I spoke.” We also believe, therefore we also speak,


Could this mean we do have a seed of faith from birth too ?

Hi Jimbo...Someone once told me that we are all born with the Spirit of God in us, but as we grow up, those parents who are non believers does not allow the Spirit to grow so we become worldly,as children who are born from Christian families feed the Spirit of God in the child, this is not something i am saying is true because because i do not know if it could possibly be, it`s just a reply...xox...

 

[stonesoffire]

Hi Jimbo...Someone once told me that we are all born with the Spirit of God in us, but as we grow up, those parents who are non believers does not allow the Spirit to grow so we become worldly,as children who are born from Christian families feed the Spirit of God in the child, this is not something i am saying is true because because i do not know if it could possibly be, it`s just a reply...xox...

I think there's a bit of truth here Rosemary. There are teachings on being born with two natures or the two trees of the garden. We know we have a conscience that shows us both good and bad, but the tree of life, may lie dormant until our spirit is awakened.

I think it's seen in Psalms and Song of Solomon. But, it's revelation truth and not often taught in churches. The scriptures liken our heart as the seat of understanding that's connected to our thinking...and our heart as the "garden".

This is all allegorical and from symbols.

 

[Stephen63]

We are not born with the Holy Spirit already in us.

 

[Silentwarrior]

What makes you so sure about that?

2 Timothy 3:15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[stonesoffire]

We are not born with the Holy Spirit already in us.

What is the light that lighteth up every man coming into the world?

I didn't say Holy Spirit either.

 

[Rosemaryx]

I think there's a bit of truth here Rosemary. There are teachings on being born with two natures or the two trees of the garden. We know we have a conscience that shows us both good and bad, but the tree of life, may lie dormant until our spirit is awakened.

I think it's seen in Psalms and Song of Solomon. But, it's revelation truth and not often taught in churches. The scriptures liken our heart as the seat of understanding that's connected to our thinking...and our heart as the "garden".

This is all allegorical and from symbols.

Hi stonesoffire, PHEW i can wipe my brow...Nothing worse then posting something which has no truth to it at all lol...xox...

 

[Stephen63]

What makes you so sure about that?

2 Timothy 3:15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

That's a single verse that says nothing on the subject.

John 3​

1Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; 2this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7“Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8“The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

 

[stonesoffire]

Hi stonesoffire, PHEW i can wipe my brow...Nothing worse then posting something which has no truth to it at all lol...xox...

No worries Rosemary. These are revelation truths. You can see that many just want the plain bread. Or written Word. Rhema Word comes from Holy Spirit.

 

[Stephen63]

Man is a triune individual (body, soul, & spirit).

The spirit we possess as sinners is not the Holy Spirit.

 

[stonesoffire]

It's our spirit, the very breath of God breathed into us when we take our first breath Stephen. This lies dormant until we are born again...awakened.

 

[PennEd]

Hi Ariel...I believe that many of us as Gods children will walk away from Him in out burst of anger or whatever, just as kids stomp away from their parents in a strop, but after the storm has passed, we realize that it was our emotions that set us in action to behave in this way, that is when we can come back to God and truly give Him our Godly sorrow, He already knows our emotions will get the better of us, some people take more time to get through things untill they come out the other side in the light again, but what about those that deliberately walk away from Him,i don`t know if what i am typing is true because i have never walked away from God since He called me , but can God not sear our hearts if we continue in rebellion, the more we sin and refuse to repent, our conciseness hardens, so the more sin on top of sin hardens the heart even further untill it becomes like stone, and then when certain people who have walked away decide they have once again had enough of their evil ways, they turn back to God, but God will not hear them, it`s just my opinion...xox...

Hi sister. If someone's heart grows hard, it doesnt
Soften up and realize it's hard, in need of a Savior, and new heart. If God draws that person to Him, he is NOT beyond salvation.
Have you ever met someone who truly loves God, but walked away from Him, and then later, wanted to Go back to His arms and the Father refused him?
This is the scenario in the Prodigal son account.

Now I HAVE seen those who once professed Christ, but have no intention of going back to Him.

Their heart only grows colder and harder, not softer.

 

[stonesoffire]

Stephen

One of the definitions of word in the NT translates to sperma...this is the spiritual seed of God. Hard for us to understand I do realize. The seed awakens the spirit that we are given by God.

Like the egg of the woman. The spirit is likened to conception by the seed of the Word. I can find it if you still can't picture it.

Dont' think flesh like...and get sex in the factor. It's a pure and holy thing.

 

[Stephen63]

It's our spirit, the very breath of God breathed into us when we take our first breath Stephen. This lies dormant until we are born again...awakened.

Romans 8
12So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

Two separate spirits.