Not By Works

[stonesoffire]

Hi all...Why do you think the Bible says 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure...


​It makes me ask myself, what would happen if i did not work out my own salvation with trembling and fear, it kind of feels like a warning to me, can someone help explain it to me please and thank you...xox...

Live out our life as a child of God with respect and honor for the Lord of our life, knowing that it is He who is at work in us to produce fruit.

The trembling I see as being in His presence. That's how I view it but I haven't really looked at it in the greek.

 

[dcontroversal]

mmmm... I'm not making this up...

Is there something wrong with being rewarded a gift for our works..

if it is the Master Himself who requires such work?

Yeah....it.contradicts scripture......and puts the cart before the Ox.....but I fully expect you to reject this truth

 

[UnderGrace]

I appreciate your quick wit ... but it is also very profound ....

There is no peace in a works based salvation...if one takes their eternal destiny seriously (which I did even when I was catholic) it is quite torturous to worry if you will ever measure.

I am still so thankful to the man that led me to the Lord and having been set free ....I will stay free indeed.

Your self-inflicted pain must be agonizing.

 

[preacher4truth]

Hi all...Why do you think the Bible says 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure...


​It makes me ask myself, what would happen if i did not work out my own salvation with trembling and fear, it kind of feels like a warning to me, can someone help explain it to me please and thank you...xox...

Hi Rosemary!

Keep in mind you cannot work out something you do not already possess.

Look at the context in the next verse: "for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure." That is the evidence of your conversion, God working in you to follow Him, to will to follow Him and to do for Him. By these things we can know that we are saved, when we desire to work for God and do His will.

Note as well Jesus in Matthew 7:21 concerning those who are saved are the ones who do God's will, all due to God within them of course, as we see here in Philippians.

So, work out that process of salvation, employ yourself in the salvation that God is working within you. The next verse tells us to do these things without grumbling (which at times believers do, in our flesh).

So he is not telling them to work for their salvation, but to employ themselves in the working of God through them in their salvation which they possess.

 

[stonesoffire]

no concerning God's word I stick to "Truth"if you interpret my posts otherwise,then so be it,I simply was answering questions through the holy spirit,I was not "railing" on anyone as some tend to do,my purpose is only to serve God with answering questions about his word,particularly "salvation" and "baptism" I focus upon when someone "requests" to "learn",I by no means choose anyone's side or "force" anyone to believe as I believe,for this is "wrong" and I "detest" such foolishness anyways,everyone has "choices" to make,my role mainly is to "answer" when someone has a question regarding God's word,tell people of "salvation" and "baptism" but only if they "request" to learn,and I'm especially glad to be able to answer through the holy spirit,I know not why only now God has given me his spirit so abundantly,but as his servant I will do what I can for him by "helping" whom seek him come to him,just as with Fran I have spent a few times of lack of sleep to answer her questions,just like this morning I took "time" to speak with her not out of malicious intent but rather compassion even though it was 5 to 6 am and I had work at 8am and got no sleep(already couldn't sleep)but since there was reason to answer through the holy spirit,I simply did,for though I was ragged I sought to do God's will,which is why I frequent so many times here as well as other sites,to be there for "anyone" who seeks to learn God's word,and especially if they wish to become closer with God.(my dear debate partner Fran as always you may format this post for me,I always appreciate it,just as I really look forward to your posts,they really are quite interesting,the tougher the question the more I feel compelled to answer,despite how I may sound at times,[every once in a while I know I sound sarcastic,but don't take that for mocking,I do respect your views,I just sometimes speak too quickly on some topics,which I'm trying to keep from such quick wit,noone is beyond correction including me of course,so I now leave most of what I say to God,especially concerning serious topics like,God's word]well I'll discuss with you later,God bless you!)

You are a real treasure Joe.

 

[Stephen63]

I'm surprised someone didn't say Judas was still saved after he committed suicide like the HG's do.

 

[manschild]

GOD LOVE A GENEROUS HEART,SO IT IS best to be on his good side.Manschild..its a wrap.

 

[dcontroversal]

Where in Scripture does it state I must keep the law (613 laws) as a gentile or as a believer?

More working for dogma.....grace or law, one or the other and the blend the two to obtain or keep salvation = foolish and bewiched <---Paul, Galatians 1 and 3

 

[stonesoffire]

I have prayed that he was saved. Jesus called this apostle His friend at the moment of the betrayal. He definitely had remorse.

I remember Corrie Ten Boom saying that she thought it possible that he was saved. Jesus is so merciful.

 

[Stephen63]

So much fluff..... so little substance.

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus was ministering under the law Fran. Fulfilling the prophecies spoken and He did each one. All the sacrifices fulfilled by His life in some way.

So the law is done...Passed away and a new way of living is now. The revelation is given to Paul about the body of Christ.

Jesus didn't mention any of this because He had a different mission.

No one says break the commandments. There is where I think we have a divide. Not by obedience of rote such as the Jews had, but by life in the Spirit.

The new and living way that Hebrews speaks of.

Amen.....often overlooked by the workers for.....they reject that Jesus was born, lived and died under the law which RATIFIED THE NEW COVENANT which PAUL speaks extensively about.......a very lethal mistake with eternal consequence!

 

[UnderGrace]

Amen ...so wonderful to read this, because I did wrestle with this once, and it is good to know my answer lines up with yours!!

oh no ...could this be some kind of coordinated - ultra - secretive - conspiracy to promote the gospel of grace and not works?

Hi Rosemary!

Keep in mind you cannot work out something you do not already possess.

Look at the context in the next verse: "for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure." That is the evidence of your conversion, God working in you to follow Him, to will to follow Him and to do for Him. By these things we can know that we are saved, when we desire to work for God and do His will.

Note as well Jesus in Matthew 7:21 concerning those who are saved are the ones who do God's will, all due to God within them of course, as we see here in Philippians.

So, work out that process of salvation, employ yourself in the salvation that God is working within you. The next verse tells us to do these things without grumbling (which at times believers do, in our flesh).

So he is not telling them to work for their salvation, but to employ themselves in the working of God through them in their salvation which they possess.

 

[stonesoffire]

Hi Rosemary, I did not see a response unless I missed it...

We see here is that we are to WORK OUT what God, by His grace, WORKS IN.

But not to "maintain" His grace. No. As the RESULT of His grace.

Our works are to be a by-product of grace received, and faith lived out
So we are to continue to work out our salvation not trusting ourselves but abiding in God who will accomplish His will in us.

In context then, it makes more sense when one looks at the next line that ..."for it is God that works in you both to will and to do for his pleasure."

Fear and trembling I have been told in the original Greek as a expression would be more properly understood as
recognition of one's own weakness and inability."


Paul further expands here to the Ephesians

For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph. 2:8-10)

That was much better than my explanation.

 

[UnderGrace]

Yes I thought there was a blending ...I hope she comes back to clarify at some point

More working for dogma.....grace or law, one or the other and the blend the two to obtain or keep salvation = foolish and bewiched <---Paul, Galatians 1 and 3

 

[stonesoffire]

Amen.....maybe you will see your error hahHH jokes of course

Uh huh...sure...lol

You'll be the next one swinging from the rafters.

 

[dcontroversal]

Why would you go to hell? This is very confusing?

Talk about no assurance.....if I go.....wow.....that statement almost makes me bring out the cake taking phrase again.....and I would lay odds that no one in hell is praising God!

 

[preacher4truth]

Amen ...so wonderful to read this, because I did wrestle with this once, and it is good to know my answer lines up with yours!!

oh no ...could this be some kind of coordinated - ultra - secretive - conspiracy to promote the gospel of grace and not works?

Shhhhhhh!!!!!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

so because she supports good works in the bible shes a troll ?.. really dc is that the right thing to say ?.. are you sure you have Jesus doing all your works ?

Jimmy.....read the whole thread before you jump in and make a statement........and the context of my statment.....geesh

 

[stonesoffire]

So, since I am a true born again Christian and you don't like what I say, therefore you hate me.
Where is the teaching on this in the New Testament?
Again, maybe you are wrong in interpreting what I say.

am pretty sure he means he hates what you are doing.

 

[dcontroversal]

True.
James 2:14-26
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith without the works of the law..............

CONTEXT!!!!!!!!