Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Consider I just came in and read your post about franc... I could jump on the bandwagon and go after her believing she is guilty...
Or you could do like most people. Understand that these two people have an issue, And resolve to see what it may be. But not to judge.
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
If sharing my belief of scripture is making myself seem self righteous.. and not a unworthy loving servant then I have to accept that as part and parcel.. for GOD is not deceived and He will know my inward intent.
You speak more of self than of Christ so it isn't about your sharing of Scripture. Let's keep it in proper perspective, your sharing of Scripture is generally to talk about you, to point to you, to talk about your works, to imply this about you.

As far as knowing one's heart, out of the heart the mouth speaks. Anyone who takes comfort in their own heart, well...I've not witnessed one person throughout church history, greatly used of God, or remotely that talked about their heart as if it is a good thing.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
Your arguments sound like double talk.

So when Paul says that we are not saved by works/works of righteousness/our works in general, he merely means specific works of the law like circumcision? Is that what you are saying?

First you say I'm accusing you of doing something to make my point fit, now you are saying you don't agree with my post? More double talk.

I don't hear people say that works will save them "in place of faith" but I hear people say that we are saved by faith AND WORKS.

Off you go again...

Trying to appease yourself... Double talk: Don't agree with your post.. or don't find it relevant... since I did not propose what you say I did..... I have nothing to agree with you on...

If you read Paul's writings in full you would know what is meant.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I have yet to see a person boast of their own good works....
Anyone who talks about it boast about it.

If you preach works are required to maitnain salvation, Your boasting of your works. Your claimong your works are good enough to maintain your salvation, as apposed to others like greasy gracers, hypergracers easy believers etc) who have not enough works to even think about having salvation. let alone maintain it.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Yes I have read it. Mr. Legality, I forgot about him....yes I have met a few of those.

Amen! His grace is sufficient.

Let me say this to make it clear as at least one shows disdain for this truth: Yes, grace is all we need, but not just any grace, God's grace. It is this grace that converts us and leads us to good works; Titus 2:11-15 &c.

God's grace is thus sufficient.

That said I don't find it a remarkable thing that some mitigate this, and then point to self immediately in its stead while mocking others. If you've ever read The Pilgrim's Progress you'd see that these types are the likes of Mr. Legality and Formality, two characters Christian met on his way to the Celestial City.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,464
13,409
113
58
Off you go again...

Trying to appease yourself... Double talk: Don't agree with your post.. or don't find it relevant... since I did not propose what you say I did..... I have nothing to agree with you on...

If you read Paul's writings in full you would know what is meant.
Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*

Agree or disagree?
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
I believe it's safe to say when members are using tools out of the Devil's workshop, it's because they have a personal passkey.
oh i agree

but a righteous anger from a child of God has no malice or wrath....

exposing evil is different than saying something in spite


Matthew 5:44

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you


Matthew 5:22 - But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


Ephesians 4:31-32

31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

even if someone needs rebuke
there is a way to do it

_______________________
Proverbs 27:5 - Open rebuke [is] better than secret love.

1 Timothy 5:20 - Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Titus 2:15 - These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

2 Timothy 4:2 - Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

___________________

but you can have authority while being meek

Galatians 6:1 - Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
You speak more of self than of Christ so it isn't about your sharing of Scripture. Let's keep it in proper perspective, your sharing of Scripture is generally to talk about you, to point to you, to talk about your works, to imply this about you.

As far as knowing one's heart, out of the heart the mouth speaks. Anyone who takes comfort in their own heart, well...I've not witnessed one person throughout church history, greatly used of God, or remotely that talked about their heart as if it is a good thing.


I disagree with you greatly on this... I have shared the Messiah's Testimony... and not boasted of myself... just more unfounded accusations...

So you have spoke from your heart these that you write.. pretending I have spoke about my works as some type of boast. Shame on you...

preacher 4 Truth... if only!
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Thank you for this, it has comforted my heart, especially after all those horrible posts of the past ten hours.

So true...I never saw the reality of this.
Wow


You speak more of self than of Christ so it isn't about your sharing of Scripture. Let's keep it in proper perspective, your sharing of Scripture is generally to talk about you, to point to you, to talk about your works, to imply this about you.

As far as knowing one's heart, out of the heart the mouth speaks. Anyone who takes comfort in their own heart, well...I've not witnessed one person throughout church history, greatly used of God, or remotely that talked about their heart as if it is a good thing.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
Anyone who talks about it boast about it.

If you preach works are required to maitnain salvation, Your boasting of your works. Your claimong your works are good enough to maintain your salvation, as apposed to others like greasy gracers, hypergracers easy believers etc) who have not enough works to even think about having salvation. let alone maintain it.

Oh please get a grip.... if you share what is written because you believe it.. you are not boasting but relaying the message.. I have made no such claims... such deception..

You have become deceptive to please men.. shame on you eg.....
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
One group say believing in the promise of the keys is the answer, we do nothing
the keys save us, and argue at length you are a fool not to believe in the keys
.

The Jews were known for turning things upside down. They mocked the idea of un-merrited favor (grace) Christ called them workers of iniquity.

Yes the Greeks who argue (false hope} as a their way to heaven through the philosophies of men. The intellectual gospel

The other group grab the keys, find the car and drive off.
This is really this simple, but so many really appear not to care or even understand
the gift of Christ.
Sounds like the sign keepers (Jews) and those who seek after a intellectual gospel(Greeks) both stumbling over the promise which no one have received ..

Have you received it?

You forgot about the group that walks by a living hope that goes beyond human hope.

The goal of our faith is our promised new bodies (incorruptible) if a person has no new bodies they have nothing to drive the car with. Like the keyless cars of today it must be on the person as part of the person. .(Christ in us)

Have you grabed your new incorruptible body?

We walk by faith, believing in the unseen key.(promise)

This is unlike those who walk by sight requiring a sign as the “work they perform” calling it grace before they believe as a sign of their own self righteousness. They have already received their reward as a false hope.


For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Co 1:22

Who works for that in which they already have? Have you received your new incorruptible body, the key?

And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.Heb 11:39
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
I disagree with you greatly on this... I have shared the Messiah's Testimony... and not boasted of myself... just more unfounded accusations...

So you have spoke from your heart these that you write.. pretending I have spoke about my works as some type of boast. Shame on you...

preacher 4 Truth... if only!
I've spoken truly of you -- you boast of self perpetually. You've shared the testimony of Self. That you think your heart is a wonder to behold is telltale, you've claimed this, don't deny it. Self. Self. Self.

Others can attest to the fact that what has been stated here concerning you is factual.

I challenge you to speak more of Christ than of yourself and of always implying good concerning yourself. A true encounter with Christ will definitely give you a completely different portrait of self than that which you hold at this point in time.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*

Agree or disagree?

Can you give me the scripture where Heavenly Father and the Messiah state this question to render one a believer or unbeliever.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
Oh please get a grip.... if you share what is written because you believe it.. you are not boasting but relaying the message.. I have made no such claims... such deception..

You have become deceptive to please men.. shame on you eg.....
Have you received your new incoruptible body the living goal of the Christians faith to replace your body of death. Or just bragging rights?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
I've spoken truly of you -- you boast of self perpetually. You've shared the testimony of Self. That you think your heart is a wonder to behold is telltale, you've claimed this, don't deny it. Self. Self. Self.

Others can attest to the fact that what has been stated here concerning you is factual.

I challenge you to speak more of Christ than of yourself and of always implying good concerning yourself. A true encounter with Christ will definitely give you a completely different portrait of self than that which you hold at this point in time.


Others as in those that agree with you? Oh please.. like I'm gonna believe your lies.. a thousand can agree with you my dear but it changes not the Truth.

My conscience is clear before the Almighty GOD.. sharing Scripture obviously touches a nerve and you are offended and seek to try and accuse....

I'm staying and sharing the Truth of GOD in spite of you.

Glory to Heavenly Father and the Messiah.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
My conscience is never clear before God. I could barely make such a statement let alone believe it

I am thankful then that I have the righteousness of Christ, because mine are as filthy rags:(

Others as in those that agree with you? Oh please.. like I'm gonna believe your lies.. a thousand can agree with you my dear but it changes not the Truth.

My conscience is clear before the Almighty GOD.. sharing Scripture obviously touches a nerve and you are offended and seek to try and accuse....

I'm staying and sharing the Truth of GOD in spite of you.

Glory to Heavenly Father and the Messiah.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
Have you received your new incoruptible body the living goal of the Christians faith to replace your body of death. Or just bragging rights?
garee I have no bragging rights my dear.. often stated im the least.. and always seeking to Glorify GOD and our Messiah.

Those that are forgiven much love more.. so true...

im the servant of a Great Master and have never believed otherwise..

just another her way to try and make me leave.. the Almighty GOD is not to be ignored in favour of men.
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
Others as in those that agree with you? Oh please.. like I'm gonna believe your lies.. a thousand can agree with you my dear but it changes not the Truth.
Yes, many witnesses that can attest to what is said about you is true. I'm sorry you call me a liar.

My conscience is clear before the Almighty GOD.. sharing Scripture obviously touches a nerve and you are offended and seek to try and accuse....
Yes, always about how pure you are, something you deny you speak about, while still doing it. And then show contempt for others while doing so. Luke 18:9-14 on display? Yes, most certainly.

I'm staying and sharing the Truth of GOD in spite of you.
Time will prove that this "truth" always points to you.

Glory to Heavenly Father and the Messiah.
Easy for you to claim glory to Him, yet, your posts which precede and follow paint a differing picture.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,464
13,409
113
58
Can you give me the scripture where Heavenly Father and the Messiah state this question to render one a believer or unbeliever.
I see that you dodged my question with another question. hmm... :rolleyes:

Are you asking me where the line in the sand is drawn between believers and unbelievers?

Believers "believe in Him" (not merely in His existence, but also trust in Him alone for salvation) and unbelievers do not believe in Him/do not trust in Him alone for salvation (John 3:18).
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
Let me say this to make it clear as at least one shows disdain for this truth: Yes, grace is all we need, but not just any grace, God's grace. It is this grace that converts us and leads us to good works; Titus 2:11-15 &c.

God's grace is thus sufficient.

That said I don't find it a remarkable thing that some mitigate this, and then point to self immediately in its stead while mocking others. If you've ever read The Pilgrim's Progress you'd see that these types are the likes of Mr. Legality and Formality, two characters Christian met on his way to the Celestial City.
It's very easy to quote a book over the Bible, isn't it?

Yeah.....grace is all you need.....Even though the just shall live by faith.

Even though we're saved by grace through faith.

through
[throo]
Spell Syllables



See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
preposition
1.in at one end, side, or surface and out at the other:to pass through a tunnel; We drove through Denver without stopping.Sun came through the window.


2.past; beyond:to go through a stop sign without stopping.


3.from one to the other of; between or among the individual membersor parts of:to swing through the trees; This book has passed through manyhands.


4.over the surface of, by way of, or within the limits or medium of:to travel through a country; to fly through the air.


5.during the whole period of; throughout:They worked through the night.


6.having reached the end of; done with:to be through one's work.


7.to and including:from 1900 through 1950.


adverb11.in at one end, side, or surface and out at the other:to push a needle through; just passing through.


12.all the way; along the whole distance:This train goes through to Boston.


13.throughout:soaking wet through.


14.from the beginning to the end:to read a letter through.


15.to the end:to carry a matter through.


16.to a favorable or successful conclusion:He barely managed to pull through.


adjective17.having completed an action, process, etc.; finished:Please be still until I'm through. When will you be through withschool?


18.at the end of all relations or dealings:My sister insists she's through with selfish friends.


19.passing or extending from one end, side, or surface to the other:a through wound coming left to right and out the other side.


20.traveling or moving to a destination without changing of trains,planes, etc.:a through flight.


21.(of a road, route, way, course, etc., or of a ticket, routing order, etc.)admitting continuous or direct passage; having no interruption,obstruction, or hindrance:a through highway; through ticket.


22.(of a bridge truss) having a deck or decks within the depth of thestructure.Compare
deck (def 16).


23.of no further use or value; washed-up:Critics say he's through as a writer.


Idioms24.through and through,

  • through the whole extent of; thoroughly:cold through and through.
  • from beginning to end; in all respects:an aristocrat through and through.


The very core of our obtaining, & living to the end is faith.

Most on here turn it into a one-time event where we can kick back & do nothing, because it cannot be revoked.

Then they say "the person saved will want to do good".

Yeah. We can tell just by reading this thread.
:rolleyes:

Martin Luther would roll over in his grave if he could see what the protestants are doing now to his 95 thesis.