Not By Works

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,476
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Nope it is not. Lazy people do not get to enjoy the joys of life. Lazy christians miss out on the joys of spiritual life.
Let me share a bit of my Serving Him Testimony. I, back in 1987, through a series of minor miracles, ended up moving from Nebraska, to Northern California; because HE kept putting it on my heart to move WEST. You have to understand, I used to think, "There are nothing but fruits and nuts in California, who would ever want to live there." To make a long story short, HE kept opening doors, and all I was doing is walking through them, TOTALLY TRUSTING HE KNEW WHAT HIS PLAN FOR MY LIFE WAS, while I was clueless, especially about "WHY CALIFORNIA."

When there was no job available in the Post Office, and unexpected one opened up six months later.

When I had no money to move on, a hit and run drunk driver totaled my parked 2 year old car, and thus the insurance gave me the money to move on, while I leased a car for us. Thus the money got us to Susanville, CA., paying for motel bills, meals, and gas along the way, and even the first and last month's rent, Utility Deposits, and we had $90 left over for groceries until my first check came in.

When a Realtor told me "There are no Apartments for Rent in this town."; suddenly I found one.

Etc., etc. He kept opening the Doors.

On a Challenge, I volunteered to get involved in the Match Two Prison Ministry, in Susanville, Ca. It was just ministering to one inmate in the Visiting Room at a time, but my spirit just SOARED. My wife even commented, when you come home from the Prison it is like you are walking 6 inches off the ground.

THEN two years later, HE put it on my heart to move WEST, yet again. This time He put it on my heart to move from the east side of California to the Coast, 17 miles from Oregon, to Crescent City, CA. Only this time He gave me the understanding why I was to move. He wanted me to start a Prison Ministry in the new super-max Prison they were building there, Pelican Bay State Prison. I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT STARTING a Prison Ministry, but I totally TRUSTED that HE KNEW EVERYTHING ABOUT STARTING ONE.

Once again, the minor miracles started happening.

When I was told there would be no job openings in the Post Office, suddenly there was one SIX MONTHS LATER.

When I had too little money to move on, He reminded me that I has a small gun collection that I could sell.

When a Realtor told me there were no rentals in town, I found a single wide Trailer House, 20 minutes later.

When we were walking with the Park Manager over to look at the Trailer House, the Manager said, "I can't believe I have someone here to look at the Trailer House already, it was just 20 minutes ago that I put up that FOR RENT sign. I looked at my watch and yes it was exactly 20 minutes from the time we left the Realtor's Office.

YES, JESUS guided me every step of the Way, and I started in the Security Housing Unit that housed over a 1000 inmates, (THE HOLE), one night a week. I could tell stories all day long about my experiences, but that is not my purpose for sharing this. Yes, ministering in the "End of the Line" Security Housing Unit in the State of California Correctional System, made my spirit Soar yet again. And soon I was getting more INMATE REQUEST FOR INTERVIEW forms (inmates call them a KITE), than I could handle in one night, so I started going out two nights a week after I got off work. Then it was 3 nights, then 4 nights, and when I volunteered for a 5th night per week, my wife asked, "How do I get one of those KITES, so that I too can spend some time with the Volunteer Chaplain?"

OH MY DID THAT EVER STICK ME!

The Biblical Priorities for a Married Christian's LOVE are:

GOD FIRST

SPOUSE SECOND

CHILDREN THIRD

OTHERS FOURTH

SELF LAST



I was so excited about how GOD was using me, that I totally forgot about my GOD GIVEN Responsibilities to my WIFE.

I confessed it as a WRONG on my part, and therefore I asked the Head Chaplain for more Volunteers and offered to train them personally. Therefore, I was able to cut back my Volunteer Ministry to 2 nights per week. When we moved about 9.5 years later, I had personally trained 8 of the 12 Volunteers. I knew the Prison Ministry that the LORD STARTED through me, was in good hands.


I share the following video because, perhaps it will help everyone to measure if the have done all that the Lord expects of them. But please do not make my mistake, and get your LOVE Priorities out of order.


[video=youtube;va8zjTPsJrI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va8zjTPsJrI[/video]
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
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There are a few different views the gnostics had - one being as someone already mentioned - they didn't believe Jesus had come in the flesh. They also didn't believe they had any sins. 1 John chapter 1 talks to these false ideas

The natural humanistic , religiously taught mind of man cannot see the spiritual truths of the realities of the new creation in Christ.

It will constantly be trying to refute the new inner man created in righteousness and holiness and it will be complete foolishness to it and "appear" to be gnostic.

This is where they come up with having to "maintain" their salvation for going to be with the Lord.

One of the reasons gnostics were birthed is because of the truth the apostles were talking about in the new birth in Christ - the new man circumcised with the hand of God in separating the flesh from the inner man in Christ...aka the circumcision of Christ.

The natural mind of man took over and created their own "reality" - apart from Christ.

This isn't even remotely close to true believers in Christ. Everything to do with the new creation is because we are "in Christ".

Paul talked about the true believer being in Christ and Christ being in them in some form 140X times in his letters.
g7 - you avoid the obvious connection between your theology and the gnostics.
Dualism, the idea we are spiritual perfect beings trapped in a fallen flesh body.

You see this teaching expressed by saying once born again we are mature perfect believers
who need to experience our birth existance, and not emphasis our fleshly carnal other.
This has been shown time and again in the followers of your theological group, by saying we
do not acknowledge the perfection within and the alien evil flesh without.

In truth there are only ultimate positions. Either we are flesh with a spiritual dimension or
spiritual with a body which we will be free from.

It is tough to follow a gnostic view and then claim you are flesh and spirit together because
that means you need transformation and a stepped learned discipleship.

And ofcourse those who feel this ultimate arrival, set in stone revelation, never to be lost or
betrayed, feel anyone who doubts it shows they have not experienced it.

Now this betrays our humanity. We experience Christ and the Holy Spirit and then explain it
later. It is this experience that ultimately seals our faith, and ministers to our souls.

So how you explain something reflects more on your love and appreciation of others rather
than the validity of the experience. So if you condemn believers because they know their
frailty and failure and ease with which they move one way or another, this is reflected in their
confidence in Christ but admission but by His grace would we fall away.

What is often displayed is a kind of arrogance, we are saved despite how we are, and those
who do not feel likewise are evil deceivers, from the enemy.

It also explains the obvious antipathy and animosity and contempt that is shown daily.
We agree Christ saves through the cross, Holy Spirit filled to serve in His Kingdom, but you would
not think that from the things said.

By the way humanism came out of the church, believers putting Christs words into action.
Not surprising when the spiritual conservatives threw them out, believing they were earning their
salvation, rather than just honouring the King, which they could not come themselves to do.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
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That is the essence of the false doctrine of "saved by works". It comes in many flavors and colors but it's core belief remains unchanged and it is a direct violation of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection. It is always those that think our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell that come up with this doctrine.

All religions - including the religion of Christianity ( as there is a religion like this that tries to mimic the life of Christ ) - are really manifesting that they are eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which has been set lose in this earth by Adam's transgression.

They are basing their life on what they do or don't do. They are attempting to establish their own righteousness by what they do or don't do instead of the finished work of Christ.

Good works in order to maintain being saved are a prime example of this.
Salvation by grace alone means that we did absolutely nothing to earn or merit salvation.

Simply defined, grace is God’s unmerited favor. If you did anything to earn it or deserve it, it is not grace. If God owes it to you because you’re a pretty good person or you’ve tried to do the best you can, it is not grace. If God gives it to you because He foresaw that you would believe in Him of your own free will, it is not grace. Grace means that you get the opposite of what you deserve. You deserve God’s wrath because you have sinned against Him. Instead, He saves you by His grace.


Grace cuts directly against the grain of human thinking, because it is not fair. We value fairness. If someone does wrong, he should get what he has coming. If someone does right, he should be rewarded. But if someone does wrong and gets rewarded in spite of it, we protest, “That’s not fair!”


Or, take the case of a guy who is very religious. He prays several times a day. He fasts twice a week. He gives ten percent of his income to charitable causes. He doesn’t swindle people out of money. He treats others fairly. He has been faithful in his marriage. He thinks that doing all of these things will commend himself to God. But, he dies and goes to hell. We cry, “That’s not fair!”

If God were fair, we’d all go to hell, because we all have sinned. God did not compromise His righteousness or justice to forgive us. His justice demands that the penalty be paid. Jesus paid the penalty on the cross for all that trust in Him. In that way, God can be both just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus (Rom. 3:26). Someone has rightly described G-R-A-C-E as, God’s Riches At Christ’s Expense.We naturally resist God’s grace because it robs us of all our pride. But there is no other way of salvation. It is by grace alone.

True Gospel Grace plus nothing

Attribute:
https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-14-salvation-grace-through-faith-alone-ephesians-28-9
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,393
113
Let me share a bit of my Serving Him Testimony. I, back in 1987, through a series of minor miracles, ended up moving from Nebraska, to Northern California; because HE kept putting it on my heart to move WEST. You have to understand, I used to think, "There are nothing but fruits and nuts in California, who would ever want to live there." To make a long story short, HE kept opening doors, and all I was doing is walking through them, TOTALLY TRUSTING HE KNEW WHAT HIS PLAN FOR MY LIFE WAS, while I was clueless, especially about "WHY CALIFORNIA."

When there was no job available in the Post Office, and unexpected one opened up six months later.

When I had no money to move on, a hit and run drunk driver totaled my parked 2 year old car, and thus the insurance gave me the money to move on, while I leased a car for us. Thus the money got us to Susanville, CA., paying for motel bills, meals, and gas along the way, and even the first and last month's rent, Utility Deposits, and we had $90 left over for groceries until my first check came in.

When a Realtor told me "There are no Apartments for Rent in this town."; suddenly I found one.

Etc., etc. He kept opening the Doors.

On a Challenge, I volunteered to get involved in the Match Two Prison Ministry, in Susanville, Ca. It was just ministering to one inmate in the Visiting Room at a time, but my spirit just SOARED. My wife even commented, when you come home from the Prison it is like you are walking 6 inches off the ground.

THEN two years later, HE put it on my heart to move WEST, yet again. This time He put it on my heart to move from the east side of California to the Coast, 17 miles from Oregon, to Crescent City, CA. Only this time He gave me the understanding why I was to move. He wanted me to start a Prison Ministry in the new super-max Prison they were building there, Pelican Bay State Prison. I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT STARTING a Prison Ministry, but I totally TRUSTED that HE KNEW EVERYTHING ABOUT STARTING ONE.

Once again, the minor miracles started happening.

When I was told there would be no job openings in the Post Office, suddenly there was one SIX MONTHS LATER.

When I had too little money to move on, He reminded me that I has a small gun collection that I could sell.

When a Realtor told me there were no rentals in town, I found a single wide Trailer House, 20 minutes later.

When we were walking with the Park Manager over to look at the Trailer House, the Manager said, "I can't believe I have someone here to look at the Trailer House already, it was just 20 minutes ago that I put up that FOR RENT sign. I looked at my watch and yes it was exactly 20 minutes from the time we left the Realtor's Office.

YES, JESUS guided me every step of the Way, and I started in the Security Housing Unit that housed over a 1000 inmates, (THE HOLE), one night a week. I could tell stories all day long about my experiences, but that is not my purpose for sharing this. Yes, ministering in the "End of the Line" Security Housing Unit in the State of California Correctional System, made my spirit Soar yet again. And soon I was getting more INMATE REQUEST FOR INTERVIEW forms (inmates call them a KITE), than I could handle in one night, so I started going out two nights a week after I got off work. Then it was 3 nights, then 4 nights, and when I volunteered for a 5th night per week, my wife asked, "How do I get one of those KITES, so that I too can spend some time with the Volunteer Chaplain?"

OH MY DID THAT EVER STICK ME!

The Biblical Priorities for a Married Christian's LOVE are:

GOD FIRST

SPOUSE SECOND

CHILDREN THIRD

OTHERS FOURTH

SELF LAST



I was so excited about how GOD was using me, that I totally forgot about my GOD GIVEN Responsibilities to my WIFE.

I confessed it as a WRONG on my part, and therefore I asked the Head Chaplain for more Volunteers and offered to train them personally. Therefore, I was able to cut back my Volunteer Ministry to 2 nights per week. When we moved about 9.5 years later, I had personally trained 8 of the 12 Volunteers. I knew the Prison Ministry that the LORD STARTED through me, was in good hands.


I share the following video because, perhaps it will help everyone to measure if the have done all that the Lord expects of them. But please do not make my mistake, and get your LOVE Priorities out of order.


[video=youtube;va8zjTPsJrI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va8zjTPsJrI[/video]
Nice testimony.....it reminds me of many truths......Jesus said that a cup of cold water given would not go unnoticed and or unrewarded......Biblically Christianity is about you putting everyone else first and yourself last........IMO
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,476
3,837
113
Wouldn't that be obvious since Plato died long before the aforementioned were ever born?
Okay, now let me ask, Considering how few copies of books were ever printed back then, how many people outside of Greece, do you think ever heard of Plato? REMEMBER ONLY A RICH MAN COULD AFFORD TO EVEN BUY A BOOK. It is not only Obvious, it is downright RIDICULOUS to think Plato influenced the thinking of the early Christian Church.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,638
1,807
113
Love your testimony VCO...because we have returned to the garden and God is our sole provider.

Amen! No works of laboring sweat...but freely He gives just for our pleasure.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,787
3,723
113
"...Grace does not depend on what we have done for God, but rather what God has done for us." - Philip Yancey
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,787
3,723
113
i think it goes much deeper than this, if someone comes in and sits for a few Services, people probably would not ask why they left and became a Denyer of christ, i think these were regular members who all of a sudden left. And when people saw them again, they were denying christ (one could easily say they lost their faith) otherwise, why would people be questioning or being afraid of it?

Gnostics believes they could sin all they want, because their bodies were dead, Thus they could sin all the want, and professed this openly, Their spirit however was alive, and could not sin, so they were ok, They also placed the gaining of knowledge above all other things. Hence the term Gnosis (knowledge)

what you see is workers trying to force all of Johansson letters to talk against this, in an attempt to deny what HJohn really said about people who were a practicing member of the church, who had fallen and becomes against christ. Or no longer BELIEVED in jesus as the messiah or christchild, come to take away their sin.

Gnostic were not the only false teachers in the NT church who got people to walk away and deny CHrist, Jews did this also. As well as other religions, And I am sure some people just tried this church thing out as a new club, and after being in it for awhile,. Decided it was not for them, so they too left.

The thing is, John does not say what group they were, He just tells us what they did, and what they became (antichrist) so to try to force Gnostics only in the passage is not only bad hermeneutics, but bad interpretation.
Hi EG

Maybe I have missed something or not understanding something.

Can you explain to me what is vexing you( like I am a 5 year old)

Ta
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,638
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EXACTLY...THE WHOSOEVERS!

And yes, I shouted. lol in worship to Him...and praise! Thank you Lord for Your mercy! And grace!
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
2,901
3,292
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Just settling down now to watch it while I have my dinner...Not sure if I will be back so quick to comment lol after yesterday:rolleyes: ...I have just got up to the bit about What is the Gospel, and not using what is already stated that it is the good news, my ears are open, I will pray for ears to hear...xox...
Hi NNM...WOW...Now I understand a whole new meaning of what the cross is all about, why Jesus sweat blood, what the cup was that He drank, I understand when Jesus said to someone " Can you drink this cup " I am still in awe of it all, Ii would suggest every person should watch this, it had me on my knees again, I just look at the whole scene differently, I can`t quiet put it into words yet, just wanted you to know it touched me so deeply and has given me a new meaning to the gospel...Thank you for this post, deep inside at the bottom some where I felt the meaning of Gods wrath, learned alot...God bless you...xox...
 
Mar 14, 2011
71,123
15,555
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Hi EG

Maybe I have missed something or not understanding something.

Can you explain to me what is vexing you( like I am a 5 year old)

Ta
What is vexing me is people using the gnostic approach to ignore the words of john who quite clearly states, people who were once part of a body of believers, and have since departed the church and are now against christ and at out deny him (lost their belief) have never been part of the boy before. ie, they did not lose salvation, they never had it to begin with.

ie, this only applies to a Gnostic in johns day, and does not apply to us today.

And then, because I think it applies to all people who were part of a church and now deny Christ. I am taking john out of context, and trying to excuse my easy believism.

and by the way these same people in another thread are arguing hebrews was written to everyone and still relates today.
 
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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,787
3,723
113
What is vexing me is people using the gnostic approach to ignore the words of john who quite clearly states, people who were once part of a body of believers, and have since departed the church and are now against christ and at out deny him (lost their belief) have never been part of the boy before. ie, they did not lose salvation, they never had it to begin with.

ie, this only applies to a Gnostic in johns day, and does not apply to us today.

And then, because I think it applies to all people who were part of a church and now deny Christ. I am taking john out of context, and trying to excuse my easy believism.

and by the way these same people in another thread are arguing hebrews was written to everyone and still relates today.
Ok putting aside the Gnostics for the moment, well no let's not because into today's church there is false teaching.

Are you vexed because you feel people are using John to say that believers can lose salvation, or they never believed or because you feel accused of easy believism?

Not being obtuse I promise, just trying to understand fully what you are saying.
 
May 12, 2017
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Okay, now let me ask, Considering how few copies of books were ever printed back then, how many people outside of Greece, do you think ever heard of Plato? REMEMBER ONLY A RICH MAN COULD AFFORD TO EVEN BUY A BOOK. It is not only Obvious, it is downright RIDICULOUS to think Plato influenced the thinking of the early Christian Church.
and yet historical fact proves you both to be wrong.....
 
Mar 14, 2011
71,123
15,555
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Ok putting aside the Gnostics for the moment, well no let's not because into today's church there is false teaching.

Are you vexed because you feel people are using John to say that believers can lose salvation, or they never believed or because you feel accused of easy believism?

Not being obtuse I promise, just trying to understand fully what you are saying.
LOL, It's all good bro,

I am vexed because people are using the Gnostics to excuse To show that these are the only people John spoke to who left the church because they lost faith and became an antichrist, in order to support their legalism.

I.e., We can lose faith, Go against christ and in doing so we have lost salvation.

my response, John says otherwise, if we were part of a church and left and now deny christ, John said we were never saved to begin with.

Their response, John spoke to Gnostics only, it does not relatye to all people who lost faith and now do not believe in Christ.

We all should be mad at this extreme misinterpretation of Gods weird to support ones legalistic gospel.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Hi NNM...WOW...Now I understand a whole new meaning of what the cross is all about, why Jesus sweat blood, what the cup was that He drank, I understand when Jesus said to someone " Can you drink this cup " I am still in awe of it all, Ii would suggest every person should watch this, it had me on my knees again, I just look at the whole scene differently, I can`t quiet put it into words yet, just wanted you to know it touched me so deeply and has given me a new meaning to the gospel...Thank you for this post, deep inside at the bottom some where I felt the meaning of Gods wrath, learned alot...God bless you...xox...
youre so sweet rose

i love seeing how happy learning new things about God makes you

Luke 18:17 - Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein



makes me think of you
^_^


(not for lack of maturity... but for the pure desire to seek Gods truth and putting your "understanding" into question)
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,787
3,723
113
Really?...let's do this to this obvious "heretic"...:rolleyes:... ( Yancy has a great book called "What's so amazing about grace?"


I have it and read it.

Have you read Death by Love by Mark Driscoll?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,638
1,807
113
In case anyone missed this on the other thread..to those who received the prophetic word.

Those who have slain the giant receive Kingship. Authority. We are kings and priests unto God.