Not By Works

[PeterJens]

lol, this cracks me up.

The law was never given to show a person how to be righteous. The law was given to show a person how unworthy they are so they could be prepaired for christ (the schoolmaster)

we do not need the law to tell us what sin is, Es paul said, even gentiles who do not have the law. Ok know what sin is.

You can't mix law and grace. They are incomparable. The law leads us to realise we need grace, once that has been accomplished, it has done its job. Now we look to love, as Jesus said, the two love commands encompass ALL the law and prophets.

One can follow the law and not be spiritual at all. Law will never help anyone become spiritual.

I want the above to be interlectualism and labelling example.

Grace is forgiveness of sin, so in communion we can walk righteously fulfilling the law.
This is the gospel.

This gospel is grace means the law disappears, and we can do anything, nothing effects
our spiritual reality.

Just listen to Paul in romans
Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Rom 13:10

This should be the end of such speculation, but these ex legalists, have such
a self condemning failure attitude in disbelief, they could never accept Jesus
has made them Holy, pure, cleansed and righteous.

So in their discussions it is always this simple formula, which is not in scripture
only their heads, which to contradict in their eyes means you are in league with
the devil. The neat trick they fall for is seeing the devil in other believers, and
themselves as the judges, enforcers and destroyers is not falling for the very
deception they are accusing others of being in.

Either you are pure, Holy, cleansed and able to see others and their faults, or
you are a sinner, blind, deaf and dumb, incapable of good judgement.

If you put yourself in the sinner camp, putting others in their place is just
disqualified behaviour.

And from my perspective, I can just say this behaviour is blind deaf and dumb,
which leads me to conclude these guys are deeply deceived and have no leg
to stand on, because they chop their own legs off, by which they judge others.

Sorry, but it is true. It is like holding a gun, and threatening others while in
reality holding it against ones own temple and about the pull the trigger.
It will just destroy yourself, no one else.

 

[Hizikyah]

I know I dish heat to all that I disagree with biblically, and have no problem or even anger when they dish it back in any and all forms....but let me tell you....I served honorably, was discharged honorably and it fires me to no end when someone dishonors the men and women who have given their lives, time, service for the free Democracies of the world...especially when it is a mouth that has not served, suffered, bled or died for freedom.

Dc I want to say I have respect for your service. I dont agreewith thesepoliticians starting wars, but I honor the men and women who serve and are ready to protect if needed. With thatsaid I think any politician who votes yes to go to war should have to either themelves or a blood relative go and fight in the front lines... heh if it were up to me fully I would make any politician who voted to go to war be parachetued right between allied and enemy forces... but the people who serve I honor. Israel went to war numerous times in the OT and is under constant duress these days...

 

[preacher4truth]

Glutton for punishment I guess....maybe hopeful he will open his eyes to the truth.

He can't open his eyes to the truth. You know this already bro.

 

[dcontroversal]

Dc I want to say I have respect for your service. I dont agreewith thesepoliticians starting wars, but I honor the men and women who serve and are ready to protect if needed. With thatsaid I think any politician who votes yes to go to war should have to either themelves or a blood relative go and fight in the front lines... heh if it were up to me fully I would make any politician who voted to go to war be parachetued right between allied and enemy forces... but the people who serve I honor. Israel went to war numerous times in the OT and is under constant duress these days...

I agree totally......

 

[PeterJens]

PeterJens diserves to be BANNED for that kind of personal insult to Veterans. I TOOK IT AS AN INSULT TO MY TIME OF SERVING IN THE MILITARY TOO. What was the post number, I will report it too.

vco - Sorry, is this a site to believers in Christ or the praise of people who have served in the
military?

In your mind, if you have served your country and blown others away, is this something we should
honour? Or is war literally a tragedy for all concerned.

There is a point where we do our duty, and honour the bravery of the service done, but it is not
a simple issue.

But I know to lift the lid on such things for many is just too harsh a place to go.

And what I am commenting on is believers who want their deeds in the military to carry special
weight. Scripture would question the behaviour of many in the army and the use of lethal
force to resolve deeply cultural and political problems that do not have an easy resolution,
like Iraq and Afghanistan, and now North Korea. Or has this reality also passed you by?

My dad was seriously damaged from the 2nd world war serving in bomber command at 18,
on ground crew seeing thousands of young people flying off to their deaths.

I do not think he ever really recovered.

So my friends, are you so certain this is just black and white, the price does not matter or
what is done?

 

[TruthTalk]

I served my country honorably as a MARINE pal...and I for one am sick of you dishonoring my military service and others as well.....

Hi Decon, I am offended as well by Jen's, scratch though the surface of Jen's and he is just like any false teacher; full of wicked lies, morally and spiritually bankrupt. Put him far away.

 

[PeterJens]

Hi Decon, I am offended as well by Jen's, scratch though the surface of Jen's and he is just like any false teacher; full of wicked lies, morally and spiritually bankrupt. Put him far away.

Lol - I am glad you all feel the same, "full of wicked lies, morally and spiritually bankrupt"

Do you think using labels like this means a jot?
Ofcourse you get upset, because I am not agreeing with your theology.

But this stuff is just insane. It is the symtom of deception, that the enemy is soooooo evil
they have to put out like rubbish.

It is why Jesus loved His enemies and knew them intimately.
When you know the truth you know how evil works by polarising people, making an us and
them and then deciding what the answers are.

Truth goes out the window, but the group goes on.
So my friends, do your worst, it will make you feel better. It means nothing to me, because
it is just labels.

But to those who follow Christ, Amen, God bless and good night.

 

[Lighthouse08]

You people need to see what Jesus said. He was very explicit.

Matthew chapter 5 verse 16: and the same way let your light shine before men that they may see your good deeds and praise your father in Heaven.

Matthew chapter 5 verse 20: For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 22:37-38: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the First and greatest commandment.i

John chapter 3 verse 19: this is the verdict: light has come into the world but men loved Darkness instead of light because their DEEDS were evil.

John Chapter 14 verse 12: I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing.

John Chapter 14 verse 15: if you love me, you will obey what I command.

John chapter 14 verse 21: Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me.

John Chapter 14 verse 23: Jesus replied if anyone loves me he will obey my teaching.

John chapter 14 verse 24: he who does not love me will not obey my teaching.

John chapter 15 verse 8: this is to my Father's Glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

John 15 verse 10: If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Matthew chapter 28 verse 18-20: then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on Earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all Nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I Am With You Always to the very end of the age.


Men lead by the Holy Spirit:

1st Corinthians chapter 7 verse 19: circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.

Hebrews chapter 10 verse 26 and 27: If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth no sacrifice for sins is left but only a fearful expectation of judgement and a raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

James chapter 2 verse 17: in the same way, Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

James chapter 2 verse 24: you see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. (Speaking of Abraham offering is son Isaac on the altar as commanded.)

Hebrews 6:11-12: we want each of you to show the same diligence to the very end in order to make your hope sure. We do not want you to become lazy but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised.

Hebrews chapter 4:9-12: there remains than a Sabbath rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.


No one wants to obey commands and seek Jesus as commanded. Or do anything Jesus commanded. True repentance of sins is closely followed by obedience and turning from sin. That's why he says, SIN NO MORE.

 

[dcontroversal]

You people need to see what Jesus said. He was very explicit.

Matthew chapter 5 verse 16: and the same way let your light shine before men that they may see your good deeds and praise your father in Heaven.

Matthew chapter 5 verse 20: For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 22:37-38: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the First and greatest commandment.i

John chapter 3 verse 19: this is the verdict: light has come into the world but men loved Darkness instead of light because their DEEDS were evil.

John Chapter 14 verse 12: I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing.

John Chapter 14 verse 15: if you love me, you will obey what I command.

John chapter 14 verse 21: Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me.

John Chapter 14 verse 23: Jesus replied if anyone loves me he will obey my teaching.

John chapter 14 verse 24: he who does not love me will not obey my teaching.

John chapter 15 verse 8: this is to my Father's Glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

John 15 verse 10: If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Matthew chapter 28 verse 18-20: then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on Earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all Nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I Am With You Always to the very end of the age.


Men lead by the Holy Spirit:

1st Corinthians chapter 7 verse 19: circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.

Hebrews chapter 10 verse 26 and 27: If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth no sacrifice for sins is left but only a fearful expectation of judgement and a raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

James chapter 2 verse 17: in the same way, Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

James chapter 2 verse 24: you see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. (Speaking of Abraham offering is son Isaac on the altar as commanded.)

Hebrews 6:11-12: we want each of you to show the same diligence to the very end in order to make your hope sure. We do not want you to become lazy but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised.

Hebrews chapter 4:9-12: there remains than a Sabbath rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.


No one wants to obey commands and seek Jesus as commanded. Or do anything Jesus commanded. True repentance of sins is closely followed by obedience and turning from sin. That's why he says, SIN NO MORE.

I bet George Washington did not pick as many cherries as you have for this post.....and that is not the point of this thread.....salvation is by faith ALONE......any righteous work, deed, fruit is the direct result of the faith and salvation one already possesses in Christ......

Faith plus works, righteous deeds, self adulation, doing anything, law keeping, command keeping etc. = a false dogma with no power to save.....and NO ONE is saying that we do not serve........

 

[Lighthouse08]

And just as well, you guys need to get on your knees and seek Jesus. Humble yourselves. Beg him for repentance of your sins. True repentance is followed by obedience to His commands and turning from sin. Ask Jesus into your life. Seek Him every waking moment. Ask Him for the Holy Spirit. We must be disciples.

The last COMMAND Jesus gave was: Love each other.

If you love Jesus, obey His commands. John 4:15. Be Holy because He is Holy. Love how He loved. Pray how He prayed. Live how He lived. God is all around us. We will be judged for every idle word that comes from our lips. If you're not afraid of getting on the wrong side of God, you should be.

There will come a day when we are ALL judged. A few will get into heaven. Most will be thrown into the lake of fire. According to what Jesus standards for us are, which one are you?

 

[Lighthouse08]

Yes but you are deceiving people that its okay to continue sinning. I believed like you for a long time. Faith alone isn't going to get you into heaven. Sorry bud. Jesus said it himself. If you are not righteous, you're not going anywhere but to the lake of fire. Even the demons believe and tremble.

 

[dcontroversal]

And just as well, you guys need to get on your knees and seek Jesus. Humble yourselves. Beg him for repentance of your sins. True repentance is followed by obedience to His commands and turning from sin. Ask Jesus into your life. Seek Him every waking moment. Ask Him for the Holy Spirit. We must be disciples.

The last COMMAND Jesus gave was: Love each other.

If you love Jesus, obey His commands. John 4:15. Be Holy because He is Holy. Love how He loved. Pray how He prayed. Live how He lived. God is all around us. We will be judged for every idle word that comes from our lips. If you're not afraid of getting on the wrong side of God, you should be.

There will come a day when we are ALL judged. A few will get into heaven. Most will be thrown into the lake of fire. According to what Jesus standards for us are, which one are you?

Where does the bible state we have to beg for anything....? VERSE or be found false.

LET US COME BOLDLY before the throne of grace to obtain mercy and help in time of need....I do not need to beg for anything.

According to JESUS' standards you say.....really......wow...we did not know that.....let's see...

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

He that believes on the son is having everlasting life.

In the grace you are, having been saved out of faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.

Thanks.....I have been saved by grace thru faith and do not need a working for dogma....

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes but you are deceiving people that its okay to continue sinning. I believed like you for a long time. Faith alone isn't going to get you into heaven. Sorry bud. Jesus said it himself. If you are not righteous, you're not going anywhere but to the lake of fire. Even the demons believe and tremble.

Now you are just lying....funny thing....the worst liars always seem to be the working for crowd.....no one is saying it is ok to keep on sinning....how does lying help keep you saved when you push a sinless working for cracker jack theology?

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes but you are deceiving people that its okay to continue sinning. I believed like you for a long time. Faith alone isn't going to get you into heaven. Sorry bud. Jesus said it himself. If you are not righteous, you're not going anywhere but to the lake of fire. Even the demons believe and tremble.

I will also add.....

David described the blessedness of the man to who God imputes RIGHTEOUSNESS without WORKS

ALL who have exercised genuine faith have had the RIGHTEOUSNESS of CHRIST applied by faith and the SPIRIT has been born AGAIN by INCURRUPTABLE SEED..........

 

[Laish]

I served my country honorably as a MARINE pal...and I for one am sick of you dishonoring my military service and others as well.....

Decon brother ignore the man . He is a tad on the passive aggressive side . He attacks and when he crosses the line he fabricates a excuse that makes himself out to be a victim. That behavior among others he has shown here are plain toxic, and can only poison any conversation he seeks to engage in . I suggest we pray for this man . Trying to have a conversation with PJ is just pearls offered to swine .
Blessings
Bill

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes but you are deceiving people that its okay to continue sinning. I believed like you for a long time. Faith alone isn't going to get you into heaven. Sorry bud. Jesus said it himself. If you are not righteous, you're not going anywhere but to the lake of fire. Even the demons believe and tremble.

here we go again, Another deciever and slanderer. When will you people stop with this nonsense? No one here it teaching it is ok to sin, Well except for the legalists who excuse their own sin while judging others of their sin.

 

[VCO]

AAAAHHHH!
Never would have guessed.
I appreciate your many posted verses.

Is there really much Christianity going on over there?

Here is an online free tool for identifying Flags:

https://photius.com/flags/various_flags.html

 

[stonesoffire]

What I'm seeing, is nothing more then some "fire n brimstone" preacher!
You are preaching faith? Comes from hearing! Hearing by the Word OF God!

I can't argue with you about this, for it is true!

What is being argued, and what it is you are refusing to do? Is GROW spiritually!



You are "Preaching" "COME to the Cross of Christ!" "But don't you dare proceed onwards to the Father!" I don't know (but you probably do) why, you, and ones like you, are so afraid of being confessed before the Father, by the Son, as You have confessed the Son, before man. It boggles my mind!

It reminds me of the parable of the talents, where the guy who had only 1 talent, went and hid it away! And when the master comes for an accounting? The guy tells the master: "I knew you were an harsh master, and didn't wanna lose what little you gave me, so I hid it away." (STAYING at the Cross of Christ)

So, the master tells him "You foolish servant!" "You could have at least put it in the bank, and drawn some interest (benefit) for me!" "But, instead?" "I get nothing, for my investing in you!" "Get outta my face!" "And I'll take that which I gave to you back!" "And give it to those other guys, who gave me an increase in my investment!"

This is what Paul was saying when he said, "So, does this mean we should remain in sin, so grace may abound?"

I paraphrased his retort: "Are y'all friggin' GOOFY?!??"


In conclusion? You, are way outta your league, if you think, I, as well as several other posters I've read, are going to continue buying this crap!

Circumcision of the heart? It HURTS! BIG TIME! And, NOT to be confused with being Convicted! Conviction, is one's acknowledgement, and ADMISSION, To Him, of ones' shortcomings! Is like God saying through the Holy Spirit: "I KNOW! I just wanted to hear YOU say it!"

Whatcha really so angry about?

Have you not peace and joy?

Actually your words sound like you are saying hard taskmaster not dcons.

Come into the rest. Sit down in the heavenlies with Jesus. Much better than trying to please God by struggling rather than pleasing Him by your faith in His Word. Who is?

Above not beneath.

 

[VCO]

How many watch the MEDAL of HONOR Ceremony for that Special Forces Combat Medic in the Vietnam War?

His acts of Heroism were totally amazing. Part of his testimony is, "If you do not believe in GOD, you should have been where I was."

Army Capt. Gary Rose, risked his life to save others in Vietnam War, awarded Medal of Honor | Fox News

 

[stonesoffire]

At least Paul did not have that False Understanding and admitted the TRUTH:

Romans 7:15-25 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

YES, the born again human spirit has no sin in it, but the human body will go to the grave with a sin nature in it.

1 Timothy 1:15-16 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] This saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance: “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners”—and I am the worst of them.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I received mercy for this reason, so that in me, the worst ⌊of them⌋, Christ Jesus might demonstrate His extraordinary patience as an example to those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Not sure what you are objecting to VCO. The righteousness of God in Christ Jesus is a position. The soul and body still is in need of salvation. While we won't be perfect in this life, we will continue being formed in His image as we "see" Him.

Did i say sinless perfection? No. I don't believe it.