Not By Works

beastslayer1970 · Nov 16, 2017

Interesting comments, all I see her doing is simply stating what her Holy Spirit led personal internalization of the Bible and personal convictions are regarding the doctrine of Salvation? Listening to her own heart and not to any of us is really ok.

Why do you seem to make things so personal when people do not line up with your own personal Holy Spirit led personal internalization of the Bible and personal convictions are regarding the doctrine of Salvation?

Can you disagree without taking a shot at someones character? Have you met this dear sister in person? does her real self suggest truth in your comments you have made about her?

My observation is this, that you need to learn when, what and how to apply the sand paper calling of God you have. Grace and less grit and belt sanding goes a long way to build someone instead of just using the maximum grit or belt sander setting on someone you disagree with.

In the end, you have been called of God, and God needs to use you to make people for the kingdom and we need our sandpaper truth people in this kingdom. Thee is nothing wrong with being the belt sander of truth.

If you use a belt sander all the time instead of the right sand paper, you often will destroy the wood you are trying to make something out of. God will not look upon you lightly if you keep destroying the wood he is sending you.

We can disagree and use softer paper to gently remove the impurities, knots, etc.

I think you of all people, you will get this metaphor.

Stunnedbygrace · Nov 16, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

These are difficult things we are discussing. I think that's enough for me for one morning.

I always need a nap after discussion with you because we don't talk about easy things like the weather or lasagna or orange tabbies.

But as always, I have enjoyed our conversation and as always I leave it with a lot to chew on.

eternally-gratefull · Nov 16, 2017

Stunnedbygrace said:

Its cold. Rainy and miserable here. How is it in your neck of the woods?

beastslayer1970 · Nov 16, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Why because i have lived it, I have seen the damage it causes, i have seen many good fine people walk away from God because of it. And I have seen many religious leaders fall because of it.

I have seen people not in church tell us how much hypocrites christians are, because they dream and we MUST do this, when they can not live up to that standard at all.

Not to mention, EVERYONE I I know who teaches this also teaches salvation can be lost. So the root of the situation, I’ve if it is denied, is a lack of faith in God to grow is, and a insistence that we have to grow ourselves. Which is exactly what the word “must” determines.

What is your definition of walking away from God? I really want to know.

Stunnedbygrace · Nov 16, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

HAHA!!
It rained orange tabbies earlier but its cleared up now.

beastslayer1970 · Nov 16, 2017

VCO said:

Here is there Problem, they changed to a Different Gospel than the forefathers of the CHURCH TAUGHT:

2 Corinthians 11:2-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy, because I have promised you in marriage to one husband—to present a pure virgin to Christ.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But I fear that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your minds may be seduced from a complete and pure devotion to Christ.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For if a person comes and preaches another Jesus, whom we did not preach, or you receive a different spirit, which you had not received, or a different gospel, which you had not accepted, you put up with it splendidly!

Galatians 1:6-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from Him who called you by the grace of Christ ⌊and are turning⌋ to a different gospel—
[SUP]7 [/SUP] not that there is another ⌊gospel⌋, but there are some who are troubling you and want to change the good news about the Messiah.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel other than what we have preached to you, a curse be on him !
[SUP]9 [/SUP] As we have said before, I now say again: If anyone preaches to you a gospel contrary to what you received, a curse be on him!

☝t<><

Polycarp’s Letter to the Philippians - composed around AD 110 to 140:

". . . knowing that “by grace you are saved, not of works,” (Ephesians 2:8-9)
but by the will of God through Jesus Christ . . ."

Clement of Rome between 88 AD to his death in 99:

"We also, being called through God's will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves, neither through our own wisdom or understanding, or piety, or works which we have done in holiness or heart, but through faith"

Justin Martyr - born 100 AD, died 165:

"God gave his own Son the ransom for us...for what, save his righteousness, could cover our sins. In whom was it possible that we, transgressors and ungodly as we were, could be justified, save in the Son of God alone? ...

Athanasius - died 373:

"Not by these (i.e. human efforts) but by faith, a man is justified as was Abraham."

Origen born 184/185, died 253/254: "Through faith, without the works of the law, the dying thief was justified, because...the Lord inquired not what he had previously wrought, nor yet waited for his performance of some work after he should have believe; but...he took him unto himself for a companion, justified through his confession alone."

Jerome - born 347, died 420:

"When an ungodly man is converted, God justified him through faith alone,
not on account of good works which he possessed not."

Chrysostom - born 349, died 14 September 407 :

"Again, they said that he who adhered to Faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to Faith alone, is blessed."

Hebrews 12:2
[SUP]2 [/SUP]fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

eternally-gratefull · Nov 16, 2017

beastslayer1970 said:

The people I know walked away from church and wanted nothing to do with it anymore. They were defeated because they could not live up to the standard which was imposed on them for whatever reason. Now whether they stopped believing in God or not. I do not know that, But they had no faith in the church

eternally-gratefull · Nov 16, 2017

Stunnedbygrace said:

It only rained grey kitties here! It is still grey.. Need some orange to lighten things up..

beastslayer1970 · Nov 16, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

The people I know walked away from church and wanted nothing to do with it anymore. They were defeated because they could not live up to the standard which was imposed on them for whatever reason. Now whether they stopped believing in God or not. I do not know that, But they had no faith in the church

Ok, thank you.

PHart · Nov 16, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

13“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away." (Luke 8:13 NASB)

eternally-gratefull · Nov 16, 2017

PHart said:

Again, I state, I do not know if they stopped believing in God or not. They stopped believing in the church (or should I say, the church which was not teaching the correct way of sanctification to begin with)

joefizz · Nov 16, 2017

PHart said:

You "conveniently" left out the verses before it and the others after that if left out lead to no fruitful understanding,for it is a parable not mere sentences that are meant to be understood as plain,so I suppose I'll type the parable andasince interpretation since it must sting you to do so but truth will out so here goes...
Luke chp.8 verses 5-18(KJV)
"A sower went out to sow his seed:and as he sowed,some fell by the way side;and it was trodden down,and the fowls of the air devoured it.
And some fell upon a rock;and as soon as it was sprung up,it withered away,because it lacked moisture.
And some fell among thorns;and the thorns sprang up with it,and choked it.
And other fell on good ground,and sprang up,and bare fruit an hundred fold.
And when he had said these things,he cried,he that hath ears to hear,let him hear.
And his disciples asked him,saying,What might this parable be?
And he said,Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God:but to others in parables;that seeing they might not see,and hearing they might not understand.
Now the parable is this:The seed is the word of God.
Those by the way side are they that hear;then cometh the devil,and taketh away the word out of their hearts,lest they should believe and be saved.
They on the rock are they,which,when they hear,receive the word with joy;and these have no root,which for a while believe,and in time of temptation fall away.
And that which fell among thorns are they,which when they have heard,go forth,and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life,and bring no fruit to perfection.
But that on the good ground are they,which in an honest and good heart,having heard the word,keep it,and bring forth fruit with patience.
No man,when he hath lighted a candle,covereth it with a vessel,or putteth it under a bed;but setteth it on a candle stick,that they which enter in may see the light.
For nothing is secret,that shall not be made manifest;neither anything hid,that shall not be known and come abroad.
Take heed therefore how ye hear:for whosoever hath,to him shall be given;and whosoever hath not,from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have."

joefizz · Nov 16, 2017

joefizz said:

The point of the core of the parable is to "be real" toward God,lest you fake having faith and all that you think you have be taken from you for if you simply put on heirs and pretend or delude yourself in someway to teach or think contrary to God or try to hide from God your deeds it is no use,and you will be found out and your deeds told to everyone,the passage is about "True belief" for example those on the rock are they in this world that seek to only hear "the good of the bible" and delight in merry dancings and speaking in tongues,but don't seek more than this and therefore are of "unbelief" though they claim to be saved,the whole point is that you must "give your life to God"accept that his word is true as well as accept his son Jesus as saviour,if ye can't do this then you have no hope of salvation,because if one decides to preach or teach or believe selectively then you are of "unbelief" for you accept only a portion and therefore don't accept Jesus,because as Jesus said the seed is the word of God,if you don't Care what the whole bible says then how can you expect God to save your soul after all he "didn't have to" give his son for us,he didn't have to give a way for gentiles to be saved,we should be glad and thanking God for all he has done for us and be "unashamed" to speak well of him and praise him,God knows who is his and who is pretending to be his,believing wholly upon Jesus saves our souls and it is not taken from us afterward,but it doesn't mean our work is done thereafter our work is "supposed" to be telling others gladly of Jesus and all he did,"Appreciating" all we have been given,not telling ourselves to "keep believing" for then where is your faith?
You either have faith in God/Jesus or you prefer your own judgement over God's for you can not face him nor give your all for him,because you have decided that you are more "Important" than God/Jesus,yes we are to be "vigilant" of satan's traps and snares but so long as we hold fast to God/Jesus all will be well,sure we may start to doubt every once in awhile but that's why we have thethe holy spirit,to remind of us of not only why we serve God but also what he has brought us through,such things are not "forgotten",you can't live life doubting yourself and God you have to decide what is true sometime hopefully that you will choose God/Jesus and "Trust him wholly"instead of deny him and mock him each day by pretending to accept him.

dcontroversal · Nov 16, 2017

Stunnedbygrace said:

I got from your post that all we say is trust Jesus, get your free ticket to heaven and to heck with the rest.... Notice your comments...I will again say that if this is what you believe you have heard....then you have a major issue because NO ONE has said or implied the following....and to be frank, I cannot believe that you would say such a thing which is why I said what I said above.........absolutely tragic!

a. The rest of what He said is optional for this life. You only have to believe one thing He said, not all of it.

b. You don't have to turn your back on the world, you don't have to live as He lived, you don't have to struggle to run the race of faith.

c. It would be good if you did because then you will receive lots of unspecified prizes such as hats or crowns to wear, but if you don't, you're forgiven, even if you live as the world does

d. After you believe you will live forever, you don't have to walk on that narrow road.

e. That the gospel is only: you will live forever, but everything else He said concerns "everyday life" and does not have to be believed

f. Deep in my being, I hear this as a deal to cheat death

g. It sounds like a gospel of only one thing He said instead of all that He said

h. Deep in my being it sound's like putting your hand to the plow only long enough to get what you prize most - your life - and then turning back, wiping your mouth and saying, no one has caught me cheating.

I. When I hear the gospel being you will live forever and nothing else He said, I hear a voice echoing, I will cancel your deal to cheat death.

beastslayer1970 · Nov 16, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Very sadly stated, it is these people the occult keeps an eye out for and recruit the most easily.

The primary weapon of Satan is deception, his next 2 are hurt and offense.

dcontroversal · Nov 16, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

AMEN...if you break down the statements made....none of us has said any of that or implied any of what she has said........if anything the exact opposite....we have never said that we are not to bear fruit or do the work after salvation....and our only contention has been the process by which salvation is given and the eternal, unlosable aspect of it....by faith thru grace as a gift without any effort on our part......

dcontroversal · Nov 16, 2017

MichaelOwen said:

I just want to throw my hat in this ring for a second. First and foremost, to clear the air, we are not perfect, we're human, born into sin and faced with the temptation of it every single second the Lord allows us to breathe. That being said, God does not tempt man of evil, that comes from the prince of darkness, Satan and his angels. As to faith. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. As believers, we have faith in the author and finisher of our faith which is Christ Jesus, the ONLY perfect sacrifice to redeem us from the sin we were born into, so that when we came to know Him, we would have life eternal. There are two roads you can follow in this life, the road of darkness and rebellion, or the straight and narrow road that leads to Christ Jesus, there is no sitting on the fence, and you're deceived if you think you can do this. Paul clearly said faith without works is dead. If you're a follower of Jesus, you are going to have to work, and you're going to show works through your faith. Jesus said you will know them by their fruits. A good tree can't give bad fruit, and a bad tree can't give good fruit. Ephesians 5: 22-23 clearly explains what fruits a true Christian should be displaying. One big word that pops up in those two verses is, again, FAITH. Without faith, you can't have works, and works without faith will not be enough.

James said faith without works is dead BEING ALONE....

PAUL said we are justified by faith without works <---BEFORE GOD
JAMES said the faith that justifies before God is seen BY MEN based upon our works

There is no contradiction and lest you, we or all of us forget...If we have believed into JESUS we have already done the WORKS of the HEAVENLY FATHER.......

MichaelOwen · Nov 16, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Amen brother, Paul exhorted us to contend for the faith! Know what grace is? It's unmerited favor granted to us by our Lord Jesus Christ. We didn't do anything to "earn" it....He freely gave his own life to save us to eternal life with Him! No work we can do WITHOUT him will get us into heaven. But so many believe that once you are a Christian, boom, that's it, your safe and you can live how you want, when you want, and believe when you want, and go to church when you want. Paul said God forbid. Look at Pauls life for instance, he was the chiefest of all sinners, he had done EVERYTHING under the sun, and yet Christ changed him and he became a true soldier and servant to Christ, that's how WE should be. You don't just accept part of what Christ gave you, you accept all of it, or none of it! Luke 9:23 "And He said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross daily, and follow me."

FlSnookman7 · Nov 16, 2017

We are not saved because we do good works, we do good works because we are saved.

dcontroversal · Nov 16, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Round and round the merry go round goes.......how many times have we all stated that our contention is how one is saved....not what they do after salvation and how the fruit or works done are the direct result of the faith and salvation one already possesses in Christ....I.E. Christ in us as a living sacrifice doing the work through us......talk about vacillation.......

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