Not By Works
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There is much more to the Reformed point of view of salvation than what has been brought up so far . Yes a outward display of works is evidence but not total proof. With out going too far into the weeds here is also something to consider in the conversation. Protestants in general are not in the business of determining ones salvation. We do know that it is first faith that saves . Then that faith brings about works . Can we always see that faith expressed in good works ? It was one of the reasons that Luther put up his post-it note on the church door. Reformed and none Reformed alike realize that God is the ultimate judge.
That’s my short answer . I can go on tomorrow if you like but the wife and bed calls .
Blessings
Bill
That’s my short answer . I can go on tomorrow if you like but the wife and bed calls .
Blessings
Bill
Faith alone,not saved by works,when we confess Christ,for that is all we can do being fleshy,and not having the Spirit.
After we receive the Spirit then we have to have works of love,for if we lack then our faith lacks.
Out of faith,hope,and charity,love in action,charity is the greatest.
Faith works by love.
Love works no ill towards their neighbor,therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
It is not faith alone,it is love alone.
All things will pass away that we did on earth,including faith,and hope,for they are not needed in heaven,but love will go on forever,and that is why charity is the greatest.
Charity does not think an evil thought,and does not sin by the Spirit,and is not arrogant,not selfish,not unkind,and only goes by their needs,and not their wants,and helps the poor and needy if possible.
Lack in love then lack in faith,for love is greater than faith,and that is what James pointed out works of love,that if a person lacks those works then their faith is dead,which it is not sometimes love,but always love.
Some people will say their works have nothing to do with salvation,but the way to look at it is their love has something to do with salvation,for if they lack love then their faith lacks,for love is the fulfilling of the law.
To lack works is to lack love,then they lack faith.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
So do not look at it as your works have nothing to do with salvation without realizing that your love has something to do with salvation,because love is the fulfilling of the law,and James pointed out the lack of caring about helping people that need food and clothing that caused their faith to be dead,but if a person does not have the means financially to help other people then they cannot,but we should love the best we can whether financially or another way.
By the Spirit it is works of love,and that is why our works matter because our love matters,which the Bible points out that some lack in that love.
But all sin can be forgiven,and we should realize that a lack of love does affect our relationship with God,and that is the works James talks about,and not make excuses about it,and everything is alright for it is a simple thing,but I understand that this world can get to us that we want to enjoy it along with them,and do not look at it as a big deal if we enjoy those things,because it is true most Christians do care for the welfare of others,but it is money,and material things,that we want to enjoy which neglects the poor and needy is where we lack,and I have been guilty of it too.
So our works do matter in our salvation,because our love matters in our salvation,and if a person says if we have the Spirit we will do the works,then why the lack,and why does the Bible warn us of the lack,so it is obvious that we can lack,and if we lack then our faith lacks,for then we do not have the proper perspective of God,and His kingdom,that is love.
The Spirit will not twist our arm to live for God that is why we have responsibility to do works of love.
After we receive the Spirit then we have to have works of love,for if we lack then our faith lacks.
Out of faith,hope,and charity,love in action,charity is the greatest.
Faith works by love.
Love works no ill towards their neighbor,therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
It is not faith alone,it is love alone.
All things will pass away that we did on earth,including faith,and hope,for they are not needed in heaven,but love will go on forever,and that is why charity is the greatest.
Charity does not think an evil thought,and does not sin by the Spirit,and is not arrogant,not selfish,not unkind,and only goes by their needs,and not their wants,and helps the poor and needy if possible.
Lack in love then lack in faith,for love is greater than faith,and that is what James pointed out works of love,that if a person lacks those works then their faith is dead,which it is not sometimes love,but always love.
Some people will say their works have nothing to do with salvation,but the way to look at it is their love has something to do with salvation,for if they lack love then their faith lacks,for love is the fulfilling of the law.
To lack works is to lack love,then they lack faith.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
So do not look at it as your works have nothing to do with salvation without realizing that your love has something to do with salvation,because love is the fulfilling of the law,and James pointed out the lack of caring about helping people that need food and clothing that caused their faith to be dead,but if a person does not have the means financially to help other people then they cannot,but we should love the best we can whether financially or another way.
By the Spirit it is works of love,and that is why our works matter because our love matters,which the Bible points out that some lack in that love.
But all sin can be forgiven,and we should realize that a lack of love does affect our relationship with God,and that is the works James talks about,and not make excuses about it,and everything is alright for it is a simple thing,but I understand that this world can get to us that we want to enjoy it along with them,and do not look at it as a big deal if we enjoy those things,because it is true most Christians do care for the welfare of others,but it is money,and material things,that we want to enjoy which neglects the poor and needy is where we lack,and I have been guilty of it too.
So our works do matter in our salvation,because our love matters in our salvation,and if a person says if we have the Spirit we will do the works,then why the lack,and why does the Bible warn us of the lack,so it is obvious that we can lack,and if we lack then our faith lacks,for then we do not have the proper perspective of God,and His kingdom,that is love.
The Spirit will not twist our arm to live for God that is why we have responsibility to do works of love.
J
Very well kid,since you want to continue this ridiculous banter let's resolve this right here and now since I can't sleep...
Galatians 5:2envyings,murders,drunkenness,revellings and such like,
speaking on that those who do so shall not inherit the kingdom,well considering noone here is "condoning nor encouraging nor stating" that any of us are to do such things this first claim is absolutely false of anyone resisting said scripture including me.
1 Corinthians6:9-10=basically the same as in Galatians,once again noone has said that to any of said things in this scripture is good nor are we overlooking it at all we are under grace not the law but still strive to do right for God though you claim we don't.
Epheshians 5:5=once again along the lines of same scripture,and so you know the answer so no point in repeating,false claim.
1John 3:6-10=speaking on that those who do right by abiding in Jesus doing righteously are God's where as those that willfully sin without conviction are the Devil's the same as he that doesn't love his brother,
We walk with Jesus and do right through him you are persistently pretending as if we don't because you keep up a banter with no credibility but seek us to be credible with you,false claim.
James 2:14=it speaks on faith of who claims to have faith in God but has no works,and how faith alone as in a proclamation of faith is unprofitable,this is not speaking on that you cannot accept Jesus and have salvation it is speaking on the unbeliever whom thinks he shall be saved by just proclaiming his faith but not serving God/Jesus,or likewise those who are chosen or spared by God because they did a work unto him,but you overlook that undoubtedly once saved said individual "will produce works" the individual who merely says they shall be saved or are saved are quite different,for they have not accepted Jesus and therefore have "misplaced faith" and due to their not serving God have "dead faith",if you looked around you'd see that we here who are saved produce works through Jesus,and so we do not have "dead faith" quite the contrary,but you "assume" that we take it to our heads that we supposedly don't have to serve God/Jesus which is completely untrue,acceptance of Jesus is our first real start,works follow afterward,for with Jesus abiding in us how are we to lose salvation?
considering that Jesus through the holy spirit guides our actions thereby justifying our faith.
So your last claim is false as well,we don't "resist" these scriptures we "embrace them" for who that is God's shall deny his son and not serve him faithfully?
none lest they have "nothing".
Galatians 5:2envyings,murders,drunkenness,revellings and such like,
speaking on that those who do so shall not inherit the kingdom,well considering noone here is "condoning nor encouraging nor stating" that any of us are to do such things this first claim is absolutely false of anyone resisting said scripture including me.
1 Corinthians6:9-10=basically the same as in Galatians,once again noone has said that to any of said things in this scripture is good nor are we overlooking it at all we are under grace not the law but still strive to do right for God though you claim we don't.
Epheshians 5:5=once again along the lines of same scripture,and so you know the answer so no point in repeating,false claim.
1John 3:6-10=speaking on that those who do right by abiding in Jesus doing righteously are God's where as those that willfully sin without conviction are the Devil's the same as he that doesn't love his brother,
We walk with Jesus and do right through him you are persistently pretending as if we don't because you keep up a banter with no credibility but seek us to be credible with you,false claim.
James 2:14=it speaks on faith of who claims to have faith in God but has no works,and how faith alone as in a proclamation of faith is unprofitable,this is not speaking on that you cannot accept Jesus and have salvation it is speaking on the unbeliever whom thinks he shall be saved by just proclaiming his faith but not serving God/Jesus,or likewise those who are chosen or spared by God because they did a work unto him,but you overlook that undoubtedly once saved said individual "will produce works" the individual who merely says they shall be saved or are saved are quite different,for they have not accepted Jesus and therefore have "misplaced faith" and due to their not serving God have "dead faith",if you looked around you'd see that we here who are saved produce works through Jesus,and so we do not have "dead faith" quite the contrary,but you "assume" that we take it to our heads that we supposedly don't have to serve God/Jesus which is completely untrue,acceptance of Jesus is our first real start,works follow afterward,for with Jesus abiding in us how are we to lose salvation?
considering that Jesus through the holy spirit guides our actions thereby justifying our faith.
So your last claim is false as well,we don't "resist" these scriptures we "embrace them" for who that is God's shall deny his son and not serve him faithfully?
none lest they have "nothing".
.
I don't mind discussion that's why I talk with people I disagree with.
You are one of the most vicious people on this site.
I hope you and your friend TT have had fun today together slagging me off and tearing me apart and trying your best to humiliate me.
You must be very pleased and proud of yourselves. What a good work you have done.
I don't mind discussion that's why I talk with people I disagree with.
You are one of the most vicious people on this site.
I hope you and your friend TT have had fun today together slagging me off and tearing me apart and trying your best to humiliate me.
You must be very pleased and proud of yourselves. What a good work you have done.
Hello brother Bill,
It is not important what some think about us here. Many do this kind of thing out of ignorance because they do not KNOW him who loves all.
Abiding in him who loves all, helps us to see that many do things because they do not KNOW him who calls them.
We do not wrestle against flesh and blood but many are in the flesh because they do not know the blood of him that frees from sin.
Only IN Jesus can we love one another even if the other does not like us. Those that are in Jesus are not loved by the World because those that are in the world love the darkness that hides their deeds.
We must follow in His footsteps and must share the Word he gives us to help all to be prepared for his coming that will be like a theif to do not hear his Words.
God bless you Bill, you are one of the nicest guys on the forum and very patient and I see him who calls us in you.
May God bless you as you continue in His Word.
It is not important what some think about us here. Many do this kind of thing out of ignorance because they do not KNOW him who loves all.
Abiding in him who loves all, helps us to see that many do things because they do not KNOW him who calls them.
We do not wrestle against flesh and blood but many are in the flesh because they do not know the blood of him that frees from sin.
Only IN Jesus can we love one another even if the other does not like us. Those that are in Jesus are not loved by the World because those that are in the world love the darkness that hides their deeds.
We must follow in His footsteps and must share the Word he gives us to help all to be prepared for his coming that will be like a theif to do not hear his Words.
God bless you Bill, you are one of the nicest guys on the forum and very patient and I see him who calls us in you.
May God bless you as you continue in His Word.
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”[/FONT]
N
ohhhhh this is what started it...
well that certainly is a new view on "according to their faith" to me....
well bill
id like to say im not going to slate you
im pretty sure we agree that Jesus is the propitiation for our sins "not our works"
those who believe on Him (in truth)
are made new
born again
and maybe start as a sappling (void of fruit but still yet saved)
and as they grow in the word
through the Holy spirit
will continue down this path
and it will show in them
like a shining light
yes these children of God will instantly see an inward change (repent from the old man unto the new child) and in time bare fruit (on account of walking in the spirit and not the flesh)
but the fruit of their works (like cain)
is not what saves these children
it is a sacrifice (like abel)
the final and perfect sacrifice of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ
and
God will not say He never knew those He did know
well that certainly is a new view on "according to their faith" to me....
well bill
id like to say im not going to slate you
im pretty sure we agree that Jesus is the propitiation for our sins "not our works"
those who believe on Him (in truth)
are made new
born again
and maybe start as a sappling (void of fruit but still yet saved)
and as they grow in the word
through the Holy spirit
will continue down this path
and it will show in them
like a shining light
yes these children of God will instantly see an inward change (repent from the old man unto the new child) and in time bare fruit (on account of walking in the spirit and not the flesh)
but the fruit of their works (like cain)
is not what saves these children
it is a sacrifice (like abel)
the final and perfect sacrifice of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ
and
God will not say He never knew those He did know
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N
And that Spirit is the Spirit of truth 
...I was reading that this morning while drinking my coffee, Jesus telling us that He will not leave us as orphans, that He will send us His helper, Oh how comforting to know that we are not left on our own...Morning Hiz...xox...
...I was reading that this morning while drinking my coffee, Jesus telling us that He will not leave us as orphans, that He will send us His helper, Oh how comforting to know that we are not left on our own...Morning Hiz...xox...
well said
and good morning
We are justified by faith alone, nothing more nothing less. I have never said anything different. We are saved by faith so no man can boast. Never said anything different.
We are saved by faith,
Ephesians 2:10 (NKJV)
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
I've never said anything different.
The point I was trying make is that people quote scripture that accords with their doctrinal beliefs.
Even if there doctrines are false. It's what the genuinely believe, therefore they have been deceived. If one is deceived then they have been lied to.
You only have to look at this thread to see it.
Paul wrote to churches where false doctrines were being taught and told them to stand firm in what he had taught them.
Which my assumption is that at the same time he would also be addressing those teaching such doctrines.
2 Peter 2:1-3 (NKJV)
Chapter 2
Destructive Doctrines
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
I am fully aware of the above.
Those who genuinely distort scripture for a false gospel do so for self gain.
Anyway time for this false gospel believe to sign off.
We are saved by faith,
Ephesians 2:10 (NKJV)
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
I've never said anything different.
The point I was trying make is that people quote scripture that accords with their doctrinal beliefs.
Even if there doctrines are false. It's what the genuinely believe, therefore they have been deceived. If one is deceived then they have been lied to.
You only have to look at this thread to see it.
Paul wrote to churches where false doctrines were being taught and told them to stand firm in what he had taught them.
Which my assumption is that at the same time he would also be addressing those teaching such doctrines.
2 Peter 2:1-3 (NKJV)
Chapter 2
Destructive Doctrines
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
I am fully aware of the above.
Those who genuinely distort scripture for a false gospel do so for self gain.
Anyway time for this false gospel believe to sign off.