Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Silence is golden. When you are called to love people but they have decided to closethe door, Amen, because ones obligations finish.
As a believer and follower of Jesus our calling is clear, preach the gospel in season and
out of season, calling people to repentance and to the cross.
And the cross has always been a call to lay down the passions of this world and take up
the anointing of love in Christ that flows from us.
Ofcourse a permanent ticket is reassuring, but the children of Israel thought they had bought
the same thing, where saved, baptised in the red sea, and still God judged and killed many of them.
How much more we who claim to know the living God will we be judged if we neglect His heart and
His word.
Gods grace is beautiful, but we are not bought without conditions, like faith, love and obedience.
How many children know their mothers will always love them, but they can go too far.
But in some peoples eyes this is impossible, except maybe the link has been broken, so the
sensitivity has gone, and the self made salvation has kicked in, because everyone in the world
is destined to paradise, lol. And slander, antipathy, are all signs of the same disease, sin without
redemption. God bless you all, Praise the Lord Jesus Christ is our King, Saviour and Lord,
died for our sins, and risen again to bring salvation to our souls and resurrection for our bodies.
Amen
What is the sin against the Holy Spirit?
Jesus may well have been warning us, when all attempts by the Lord to show us the way and
the state of our hearts, is called satan talking to us, we have imprisoned ourselves in a spiritual
coffin from which there is no escape.
So if greed, self indulgence, envy, hatred, lusts of this world have bound you, and those coming
in Gods name with His words are the enemy, beware you are not lost while delaring loudly the
messengers from the Lord are evil beyond belief, when all they have brought is love and understanding.
Jesus may well have been warning us, when all attempts by the Lord to show us the way and
the state of our hearts, is called satan talking to us, we have imprisoned ourselves in a spiritual
coffin from which there is no escape.
So if greed, self indulgence, envy, hatred, lusts of this world have bound you, and those coming
in Gods name with His words are the enemy, beware you are not lost while delaring loudly the
messengers from the Lord are evil beyond belief, when all they have brought is love and understanding.
Faith without works is dead. To me that means the one cannot even genuinely exist without the other. Of course, the work is God’s work and of him. He is the one that provides the increase, but we still have to apply ourselves to the things of God and obey and do exactly what he says. We have to set our affections on things above, walk in the Spirit, obey God, and deny the flesh.
God does the saving, the cleaning up, and provides the increase if we accept him and allow him to work in our lives, but we have to be willing and obedient unto him. We have to live a good clean and holy life as specified by him in his word. He says be holy for I am holy.
We cannot just continue on in sin and say we can’t help it, and then think that it is all going to be alright. If we say we are bound to sin and just can’t stop it, then how can we honestly say that we have faith in Jesus knowing that he came to break the chains of sin? Of course, we will make mistakes along the way, but we can’t just sit down and dwell in sin. We have to repent, ask him for the strength to do his will, and get back up.
Jesus died to cleanse us from sin and give us the power to overcome. So we have to put our faith in him, trust him, and fight the good fight. Knowing that through Jesus we will overcome.
As far as works goes, it is not my place to judge any man’s work. Who am I to judge another man’s servant? God knows the hearts of everyone. He is the one that judges the works. He knows if someone is just trying to do good works to get praise of men and look good to others. Then again, on the other side of that coin, he also knows if someone is just sitting back being disobedient and not even applying themselves to him and his commandments. Personally, I don't think anyone that is standing on either side of those tracks is going to be justified.
So this is my understanding… it is God that leads us and guides us into righteousness and every good work, and God is the one that gives the increase, but we have to put forth the effort to seek him, obey him, and do exactly what he tells us to do. Faith without works is dead and vice a versa… works without faith is dead, as well.
God does the saving, the cleaning up, and provides the increase if we accept him and allow him to work in our lives, but we have to be willing and obedient unto him. We have to live a good clean and holy life as specified by him in his word. He says be holy for I am holy.
We cannot just continue on in sin and say we can’t help it, and then think that it is all going to be alright. If we say we are bound to sin and just can’t stop it, then how can we honestly say that we have faith in Jesus knowing that he came to break the chains of sin? Of course, we will make mistakes along the way, but we can’t just sit down and dwell in sin. We have to repent, ask him for the strength to do his will, and get back up.
Jesus died to cleanse us from sin and give us the power to overcome. So we have to put our faith in him, trust him, and fight the good fight. Knowing that through Jesus we will overcome.
As far as works goes, it is not my place to judge any man’s work. Who am I to judge another man’s servant? God knows the hearts of everyone. He is the one that judges the works. He knows if someone is just trying to do good works to get praise of men and look good to others. Then again, on the other side of that coin, he also knows if someone is just sitting back being disobedient and not even applying themselves to him and his commandments. Personally, I don't think anyone that is standing on either side of those tracks is going to be justified.
So this is my understanding… it is God that leads us and guides us into righteousness and every good work, and God is the one that gives the increase, but we have to put forth the effort to seek him, obey him, and do exactly what he tells us to do. Faith without works is dead and vice a versa… works without faith is dead, as well.
James is preaching against an empty profession of faith (says-claims to have faith) that remains "alone" -- barren of works (James 2:14). That is not genuine faith, but a dead faith. *Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. *No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.
Not to be confused with salvation through faith (rightly understood) in Christ "alone." Faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation is not an empty profession of faith and does not remain "barren of works" because it's a living faith and not a dead faith (Ephesians 2:5-10). Will you ever come to understand the difference?
Not to be confused with salvation through faith (rightly understood) in Christ "alone." Faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation is not an empty profession of faith and does not remain "barren of works" because it's a living faith and not a dead faith (Ephesians 2:5-10). Will you ever come to understand the difference?
"Silence is golden." When you are called to love people but they have decided to closethe door, Amen, because ones obligations finish.
As a believer and follower of Jesus our calling is clear, preach the gospel in season and
out of season, calling people to repentance and to the cross.
And the cross has always been a call to lay down the passions of this world and take up
the anointing of love in Christ that flows from us.
Ofcourse a permanent ticket is reassuring, but the children of Israel thought they had bought
the same thing, where saved, baptised in the red sea, and still God judged and killed many of them.
How much more we who claim to know the living God will we be judged if we neglect His heart and
His word.
Gods grace is beautiful, but we are not bought without conditions, like faith, love and obedience.
How many children know their mothers will always love them, but they can go too far.
But in some peoples eyes this is impossible, except maybe the link has been broken, so the
sensitivity has gone, and the self made salvation has kicked in, because everyone in the world
is destined to paradise, lol. And slander, antipathy, are all signs of the same disease, sin without
redemption. God bless you all, Praise the Lord Jesus Christ is our King, Saviour and Lord,
died for our sins, and risen again to bring salvation to our souls and resurrection for our bodies.
Amen
Silence may be golden to you, but wisdom shouts from the public square.
"because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."Romans10:9
Last edited:
Ridiculous. Sin is sin regardless if one "stumbles" into it, or "lives" in it. You aren't grasping how serious God takes sin. Once again, a single sin attributed to us will damn us. Just one.
And, in fact, we all "live" in sin based on the fact we all still sin - every day. Just like the verse I quoted where Paul lamented that he wishes to do good, but only does evil instead.
And, in fact, we all "live" in sin based on the fact we all still sin - every day. Just like the verse I quoted where Paul lamented that he wishes to do good, but only does evil instead.
Once again YOU PROVE THAT YOU ONLY KNOW WHAT OTHERS HAVE SAID ABOUT CALVINISM. When are you going to LISTEN TO WHAT WE SAY, and I am not a True Calvinist, because I do not not believe in two of the Points of Calvinist.
HERE IS WHAT I BELIEVE concerning the last Statement you just made.
1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.
And here is what I believe on some of the other verses that you KEEP POSTING in error.
John 10:26-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
NO ONE, NOT EVEN SELF, CANNOT EVEN PULL THEM OUT OF HIS HAND. Eternal LIFE cannot be LOST OR FORFEITED, but MANY are deceived that think they are CHRISTIANS, when THEY TRULY ARE NOT.
Matthew 7:13-24 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
{That is the NARROW GATE of receiving HIM out of GENUINE LOVE FOR HIM, as LORD, means MASTER.}
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! {No inner personal LOVE relationship with Jesus Christ, means you do not know HIM.} Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
[SUP]24 [/SUP] “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them will be like a sensible man who built his house on the rock.
John 5:24 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] “I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.
HERE IS WHAT I BELIEVE concerning the last Statement you just made.
1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.
And here is what I believe on some of the other verses that you KEEP POSTING in error.
John 10:26-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
NO ONE, NOT EVEN SELF, CANNOT EVEN PULL THEM OUT OF HIS HAND. Eternal LIFE cannot be LOST OR FORFEITED, but MANY are deceived that think they are CHRISTIANS, when THEY TRULY ARE NOT.
Matthew 7:13-24 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
{That is the NARROW GATE of receiving HIM out of GENUINE LOVE FOR HIM, as LORD, means MASTER.}
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! {No inner personal LOVE relationship with Jesus Christ, means you do not know HIM.} Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
[SUP]24 [/SUP] “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them will be like a sensible man who built his house on the rock.
John 5:24 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] “I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 2:12, “For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matt 13:41-43, “The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”[/FONT]
“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]judgment seat” is word #G968 - béma: a step, raised place, by impl. A tribunal, Original Word: βῆμα, ατος, τό, Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter, Transliteration: béma, Phonetic Spelling: (bay'-ma), Short Definition: the space covered by a step of the foot, a tribunal, Definition: an elevated place ascended by steps, a throne, tribunal.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matt 13:41-43, “The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”[/FONT]
“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]judgment seat” is word #G968 - béma: a step, raised place, by impl. A tribunal, Original Word: βῆμα, ατος, τό, Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter, Transliteration: béma, Phonetic Spelling: (bay'-ma), Short Definition: the space covered by a step of the foot, a tribunal, Definition: an elevated place ascended by steps, a throne, tribunal.[/FONT]
Those verses taken in context are Paul's way of saying that we are in fact righteous in spite of the fact our flesh is still wicked. We are not our flesh! We are the righteousness of God in Christ (Rom 3:21-26), we free from condemnation (Rom 8:1) and our citizenship is in Heaven right now (Phi 3:20). Paul was saying that we can either believe we are who God says we are or we can believe the evidence to the contrary. I choose to believe I am who God says He has made me to be.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin* (#G266), transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*#G266 hamartian ἁμαρτίαν sin[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:18, "We know that everyone having been born of YHWH does not sin* (#G264), but the one having been born of YHWH guards himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*#G264 hamartanei ἁμαρτάνει, continue to sin[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*#G266 hamartian ἁμαρτίαν sin[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:18, "We know that everyone having been born of YHWH does not sin* (#G264), but the one having been born of YHWH guards himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*#G264 hamartanei ἁμαρτάνει, continue to sin[/FONT]
E
You think? Thats your first problem, Your correct. The majority of us are SALVATIOn by faith alone, What we also are is of the FACT that FAITH is NEVER ALONE.
James is preaching against a CLAIMED FAITH, not FAITH ALONE. His point is that FAITH IS NEVER ALONE. I can claim faith till I am blue in the face. If I have no works (the BYPRODUCT OF FAITH) that claimed faiht is no faith at all, it is lifeless. It is DEAD.
No matter How bad you want him to. James does not contradict paul
James is preaching against a CLAIMED FAITH, not FAITH ALONE. His point is that FAITH IS NEVER ALONE. I can claim faith till I am blue in the face. If I have no works (the BYPRODUCT OF FAITH) that claimed faiht is no faith at all, it is lifeless. It is DEAD.
No matter How bad you want him to. James does not contradict paul