Not By Works
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Elamor
1.What do you mean by "exercise" isn't it to practice and not just say and claim or just a lip service?
2, Do you preach about a genuine saving Faith without doing anything?
3, Is preaching not a work?
4, Assuming that Faith alone saves, can a person have Faith and be saved without someone preaching to them the Gospel of salvation?
Ariel82
1. Yes exercise faith means more than lip service, it is giving your life into God's hands and trusting Him to take care of You.
2.yes Dcon preaches of genuine faith and How God works in our hearts and minds. It's not about us DOING but us receiving FROM GOD THE GIFT OF SALVATION.
What we do after words is another conversation.
3. Preaching is an honor that God grants us to glorify God. It's God's work that sometimes He uses us to do, but only through His holy spirit.
4. Yes if you mean someone human. Saul learnt the gospel from Jesus. Some people learn it from reading the Bible. Some from dreams.
God has ways to call His people to him.
Elamor
1.Does trusting God to take care of you an exercise or practice of Faith that does not require WORKS of LOVE,OBEDIENCE and FAITH?
Do you agree that Faith without Works is Dead?
2. dcon insists that Faith ALONE saves void of any sort of work contrary to what the scriptures say that “ Faith without works is DEAD".
Can you please explain to me how a DEAD faith can be GENUINE?
John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.
James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
3. Do you now agree that preaching is a WORK necessary for salvation? Not of ourselves(ephesians 2:8-9)but of the BODY of Christ, the Church of God of which He is the savior(ephesians 5:23) and if our Head is the Savior, are we not supposed to do the WORKS of SALVATION here on earth just as Jesus did before going back to the Father?
John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
John 16:10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer;
4, Did you have Faith before you heard the Gospel of Salvation or do you reject romans 10:14-18?
Romans 10:14-18 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”
Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, “All power is given unto Me in Heaven and on earth. Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Amen.
Hi VCO, thank you for trying to help this troubled soul; His only purpose for being here on CC is to throw around insults like he just did. He will be here for a time as he baits unsuspecting Christians into engaging him in endless and fruitless arguments.
Proceed as you will just be careful of insincere posters down range.....
Proceed as you will just be careful of insincere posters down range.....
The mindset of thinking you need to do this and that, and carry the entire load of works in the church, will break the spirit, and next thing that person says is that hes tired of everything, and tired of living, yes it's true. Self destroyers, in the fields. The guilt. Mary and martha, and Jesus said, Your sister has chosen the better choice, sitting at his feet listening and learning, when her sister was trying to please the Lord Jesus with service. So we all could do a share of work, but when stress, takes over, it's an open door for the devil to do his work.
It is more amazing how ZOMBIES reject and cannot accept this biblical trutn;
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
...This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”
Christian Faith is ALIVE.
They WALK as Jesus did.
They are not WALKING DEAD.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
...This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”
Christian Faith is ALIVE.
They WALK as Jesus did.
They are not WALKING DEAD.
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Another day.........and the gospel is still the same....Jesus went to the cross of Calvary to pay for the sins of the whole world....he was in the tomb three days and nights and (ana-stasis) stood again for our justification.
ALL who exercise saving faith into the work of Christ will have your sin debt covered, the imputed righteousness of Christ which = saved, sealed, justified and sanctified in Christ eternally.
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he SAVED US (past tense)
Trust JESUS...believe the gospel of salvation.....it is based entirely upon faith with NO STRINGS attached, regardless of those who attempt to embellish it or top it off with works and some sort of sinless perfectionism.
ElAmor
What do you mean by "exercise" isn't it to practice and not just say and claim or just a lip service? Do you preach about a genuine saving Faith without doing anything? Is preaching not a work? Assuming that Faith alone saves, can a person have Faith and be saved without someone preaching to them the Gospel of salvation?
If you are a preacher, can you say that you are not doing a work? If it is so then what are you doing? Is preaching the Gospel of our salvation irrelevant or unnecessary to our salvation? Does it embellish or add anything to your Faith ALONE doctrine?
dcon’s reply;
Take 1 second and actually think about and ponder what this thread is about.....serious.....it is about HOW ONE IS SAVED not WHAT THEY DO AFTER THEY ARE SAVED.....it IS FAITH ALONE THAT SAVES.....end of story........!
ElAmor
If “ Faith ALONE" saves, can one have faith without hearing the message? The verses below proves that a work is needed and essential to salvation….PREACHING.
It is not of ourselves that we may not boast.( ephesians 2:8-9 ) A Faith that works in Love.( galatians 5:6 ) A “selfless LOVE" that thinks about the welfare and SALVATION OF OTHERS and not just his own interests.( philippians 2:3-4, 1 john 3:16-18 )
Romans 10:14-17 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And HOW CAN THEY HEAR WITHOUT SOMEONE PREACHING TO THEM? And how can they preach UNLESS THEY ARE SENT? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, FAITH COMES FROM HEARING THE MESSAGE, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
2 John 1:4-11 It has given me great joy to find some of your children WALKING IN THE TRUTH, just as the Father COMMANDED US. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had FROM THE BEGINNING. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as COMING IN THE FLESH, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the DECEIVER and the ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who RUNS AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE in the TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him SHARES IN HIS WICKED WORK.
Who are those RUNNING AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST?
They are those who CLAIM SALVATION is by Faith ALONE and ONCE SAVED they are ALWAYS SAVED therefore rejecting God’s Laws and commands which are in fact God’s own words, who says that even obedience to God cannot save anyone because they are works and Faith ALONE saves.
Who then is the deceiver and the ANTICHRIST?
They are those who do not continue in the teaching about WALKING IN LOVE which is WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. Who do not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh by the mere fact that they reject the LAW that prophesied about Jesus as coming in the flesh.
1 John 2:1-6 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. THE MAN WHO SAYS, “I KNOW HIM,” BUT DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.
Another day.........and the gospel is still the same....Jesus went to the cross of Calvary to pay for the sins of the whole world....he was in the tomb three days and nights and (ana-stasis) stood again for our justification.
ALL who exercise saving faith into the work of Christ will have your sin debt covered, the imputed righteousness of Christ which = saved, sealed, justified and sanctified in Christ eternally.
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he SAVED US (past tense)
Trust JESUS...believe the gospel of salvation.....it is based entirely upon faith with NO STRINGS attached, regardless of those who attempt to embellish it or top it off with works and some sort of sinless perfectionism.
ElAmor
What do you mean by "exercise" isn't it to practice and not just say and claim or just a lip service? Do you preach about a genuine saving Faith without doing anything? Is preaching not a work? Assuming that Faith alone saves, can a person have Faith and be saved without someone preaching to them the Gospel of salvation?
If you are a preacher, can you say that you are not doing a work? If it is so then what are you doing? Is preaching the Gospel of our salvation irrelevant or unnecessary to our salvation? Does it embellish or add anything to your Faith ALONE doctrine?
dcon’s reply;
Take 1 second and actually think about and ponder what this thread is about.....serious.....it is about HOW ONE IS SAVED not WHAT THEY DO AFTER THEY ARE SAVED.....it IS FAITH ALONE THAT SAVES.....end of story........!
ElAmor
If “ Faith ALONE" saves, can one have faith without hearing the message? The verses below proves that a work is needed and essential to salvation….PREACHING.
It is not of ourselves that we may not boast.( ephesians 2:8-9 ) A Faith that works in Love.( galatians 5:6 ) A “selfless LOVE" that thinks about the welfare and SALVATION OF OTHERS and not just his own interests.( philippians 2:3-4, 1 john 3:16-18 )
Romans 10:14-17 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And HOW CAN THEY HEAR WITHOUT SOMEONE PREACHING TO THEM? And how can they preach UNLESS THEY ARE SENT? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, FAITH COMES FROM HEARING THE MESSAGE, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
2 John 1:4-11 It has given me great joy to find some of your children WALKING IN THE TRUTH, just as the Father COMMANDED US. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had FROM THE BEGINNING. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as COMING IN THE FLESH, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the DECEIVER and the ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who RUNS AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE in the TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him SHARES IN HIS WICKED WORK.
Who are those RUNNING AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST?
They are those who CLAIM SALVATION is by Faith ALONE and ONCE SAVED they are ALWAYS SAVED therefore rejecting God’s Laws and commands which are in fact God’s own words, who says that even obedience to God cannot save anyone because they are works and Faith ALONE saves.
Who then is the deceiver and the ANTICHRIST?
They are those who do not continue in the teaching about WALKING IN LOVE which is WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. Who do not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh by the mere fact that they reject the LAW that prophesied about Jesus as coming in the flesh.
1 John 2:1-6 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. THE MAN WHO SAYS, “I KNOW HIM,” BUT DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.
Here is Jesus saying the law is in force tilltthe end of the earth.
What is sin? Transgression of the Law.
What is the penalty of sin? Condemned by God.
If we accept Jesus as our savior he takes on our sin and impute rightness on us before God.
Paul stated that even though he desired to do good the law of sin dwelling in him caused him to do evil. Therefore his only hope was Jesus and His sacrifice.
Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.
Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
What is sin? Transgression of the Law.
What is the penalty of sin? Condemned by God.
If we accept Jesus as our savior he takes on our sin and impute rightness on us before God.
Paul stated that even though he desired to do good the law of sin dwelling in him caused him to do evil. Therefore his only hope was Jesus and His sacrifice.
Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.
Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
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I have humility. I am just a servant of the Living God, pointing to Jesus and His ways.
Jesus has the answers to the key questions of life, walking in love, finding joy and
communion with the Lord and with others.
Now part of finding life, is the confidence it brings in the Lord and in His message.
To be a light, is to say, I have found it, Praise the Lord, Lift Him higher than
the highest.
The thing with emotions and turmoil it possess you, turns you around, makes everything
look more complex than it really is. Jesus cuts through this all with a simple message
Store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Matthew 6:19-20
Now I am just sharing what I know in Christ. Many millions of people also know
this, so it is not unique to me.
Was John the Baptist humble? Was Moses humble? Was Abraham humble?
Was Elijah humble?
Being confident in the Lord and in His message is not arrogance or pride, it is
speaking reality from ones heart to others.
And if I share Jesus, I am sharing the "way, the truth and the life."
The more I learn and see in Jesus, the more His words come to life in my heart.
And all I share is that light has been revealed to me. And I trust that in my
sharing I build up and encourage others to walk deep and closer to our Lord,
and to share and bond with others along the way in love and grace. Amen.
Jesus has the answers to the key questions of life, walking in love, finding joy and
communion with the Lord and with others.
Now part of finding life, is the confidence it brings in the Lord and in His message.
To be a light, is to say, I have found it, Praise the Lord, Lift Him higher than
the highest.
The thing with emotions and turmoil it possess you, turns you around, makes everything
look more complex than it really is. Jesus cuts through this all with a simple message
Store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Matthew 6:19-20
Now I am just sharing what I know in Christ. Many millions of people also know
this, so it is not unique to me.
Was John the Baptist humble? Was Moses humble? Was Abraham humble?
Was Elijah humble?
Being confident in the Lord and in His message is not arrogance or pride, it is
speaking reality from ones heart to others.
And if I share Jesus, I am sharing the "way, the truth and the life."
The more I learn and see in Jesus, the more His words come to life in my heart.
And all I share is that light has been revealed to me. And I trust that in my
sharing I build up and encourage others to walk deep and closer to our Lord,
and to share and bond with others along the way in love and grace. Amen.
Can one be so salvation and freedom focused one is totally useless?
If I can stand still, stay as I am, and mumble a free religious words, what does that make me?
A sinner who is deluded and believes staying as I am is ok.
Jesus calls people who
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For everything in the world--the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does--comes not from the Father but from the world.
The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
1 John 2:15-17
What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
Romans 6:1-2
Being in Christ is dying to sin and living to God, love expressed to all.
So if ones theology makes one just a passive participant, you are still a lost
sinner with no reality in your heart. Gods love has always been dynamic and
active, it cannot simply stand by, it purifies the person into whom it enters,
and changes everything they do.
Yet the excuse gospel I hear, and am told is the true gospel is founded on
keeping things as they are, having no sorrow for sin and failure in ones live
and doing nothing about it, but just believing God himself will sort it out, without
even dwelling in Christ and His word.
Well you could not dwell in Christ and His word, and stay like this, because His
word would show you the light of life, and bring you out into the reality of dwelling
in Christ, Amen.
If I can stand still, stay as I am, and mumble a free religious words, what does that make me?
A sinner who is deluded and believes staying as I am is ok.
Jesus calls people who
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For everything in the world--the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does--comes not from the Father but from the world.
The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
1 John 2:15-17
What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
Romans 6:1-2
Being in Christ is dying to sin and living to God, love expressed to all.
So if ones theology makes one just a passive participant, you are still a lost
sinner with no reality in your heart. Gods love has always been dynamic and
active, it cannot simply stand by, it purifies the person into whom it enters,
and changes everything they do.
Yet the excuse gospel I hear, and am told is the true gospel is founded on
keeping things as they are, having no sorrow for sin and failure in ones live
and doing nothing about it, but just believing God himself will sort it out, without
even dwelling in Christ and His word.
Well you could not dwell in Christ and His word, and stay like this, because His
word would show you the light of life, and bring you out into the reality of dwelling
in Christ, Amen.
So in Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? I've heard many works salvationists use this verse to try and support salvation by works by writing a blank check with the word "obey" then filling in what ever amount of works they feel are necessary to be obeyed as the means of receiving eternal life.
*Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping (guarding, observing, watching over) His commandments and practicing righteousness and not sin (1 John 2:3; 3:23; 3:9,10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.
Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation by works (Matthew 7:21-23). *In either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.
*Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping (guarding, observing, watching over) His commandments and practicing righteousness and not sin (1 John 2:3; 3:23; 3:9,10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.
Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation by works (Matthew 7:21-23). *In either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.
There is a problem.
A person can see value is loving others and giving to receive back. The humanist in all often
learns this truth.
There is also the person who is such a sinner, they reject themselves, let alone everyone else.
Then Jesus came along, put love in their hearts, saved their soul, and breathed eternity into their
spirit through the Holy Spirit. They would do anything for their Lord, out of gratitude and service,
and be a light shinning as bright as they can, to bring glory to their Saviour.
Now on the outside it maybe hard to tell the two apart.
But the worst thing one can do is discourage doing good things from a loving heart.
I suspect the cynics love to point the finger and suggest people are just pretending
trying to prove something rather than just loving people.
Grace and peace to you.
A person can see value is loving others and giving to receive back. The humanist in all often
learns this truth.
There is also the person who is such a sinner, they reject themselves, let alone everyone else.
Then Jesus came along, put love in their hearts, saved their soul, and breathed eternity into their
spirit through the Holy Spirit. They would do anything for their Lord, out of gratitude and service,
and be a light shinning as bright as they can, to bring glory to their Saviour.
Now on the outside it maybe hard to tell the two apart.
But the worst thing one can do is discourage doing good things from a loving heart.
I suspect the cynics love to point the finger and suggest people are just pretending
trying to prove something rather than just loving people.
Grace and peace to you.
I don't have a problem with what Scripture teaches. You seem to.
PS~ you really oughtn't add to God's Word like that
PS~ you really oughtn't add to God's Word like that
John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.