Not By Works

[GodLovesUNotYourSins]

I know this may not be the place to post this but God willing you will pray for the people I am about to tell you about. Its all happening as we speak.


SERIOUS PRAYERS NEENED FOR 2 PEOPLE BARELY HOLDING ON to Life!! Please help your brothers in need.

I have 3 people I would appreciate my online Christian Family to pray. Two of them were in a accident on Saturday around 6pm. Frannciso has had 17 blood trnasfusing since this mornin. He may not looking good. He is a very sick person and ony 32. His name is Fracisoc Cerda. A car turned rigth in front of him and 2 other motorcyllists with their wives on the back. The wives have alot of broken bones. Jammer, the other motorcyclist, died at the scene age 55. Very sad. The wives were also ont eh back of their bikes but they are going to make it though they have so many broken bones. in the teens. Please pray for Francise to have th the Lord touch him. His organs are sutiing down to. Broken everywhere. Please Ray
Also would like to pray for James Warner the husband and father that passed. Please pray for his relationship with Jesus and Our Savior knows him. Both men are Vets.

Next prayer is my Uncle is 67 years old. He got real septic and now isnt suspected to live the next few days. We need to pray for a miracle. His name is Steve Westenberger, Sgt Major retired Marine Corps. 28 years of servce. Please pray, pray and pray for these 3 individuals. Thank you for your support. God Bless you all.

 

[Studyman]

=dcontroversal;3521556]

NOAH? from the whales belly?? How about Jonah....

brain fart

And the prodigal son was a son throughout the whole process and only perceived as dead by his actions even though he was very much alive.....

And when he returned he had a robe and a ring, but no inheritance which he burned through riotous living....

The point is he came back instead of continuing in his own way.

AND show me where I said he was not a son to begin with....I have never said such a thing and or even implied it.....

You have preached that a person doesn't lose Salvation once they have it. If they did, it was because they weren't saved to begin with. You have made this very clear. That would mean if one is not saved, he wasn't a son to begin with. does it not?

and the word is clear....when one fails to get right, fails to endure chastening God can use the last straw....bring them home as he did the Corinthian brothers and sisters that had corrupted the Lord's supper.....

Not sure what this has to do with being saved by Grace through Faith.

and your cited example in Romans does not have to do with salvation, but rather is the example of JEWS and GENTILES and the process of the Gentiles being grafted in.....

So you preach being "grafted in" is not the same as "salvation"?

 

[dcontroversal]

=dcontroversal;3521556]

brain fart



The point is he came back instead of continuing in his own way.


You have preached that a person doesn't lose Salvation once they have it. If they did, it was because they weren't saved to begin with. You have made this very clear. That would mean if one is not saved, he wasn't a son to begin with. does it not?



Not sure what this has to do with being saved by Grace through Faith.



So you preach being "grafted in" is not the same as "salvation"?

I have never said or implied that the Prodigal was not a son or a son that lost it and gained it back

What are your points you are trying to make...Salvation is by grace through faith and it is ETERNAL and cannot be lost nor gained by something we do other than the original declaration of faith into the finished work of Christ

NO the whole grafting in deal is GOD grafting the GENTILES into the covenant relationship that has always been based upon faith...it has nothing to do with the individual salvation of a soul...........

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I thought we were saved by "Grace through Faith". Are you now preaching Faith has nothing to do with Grace?

Is that all you want to do is argue? This has nothing to do with my post,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I just posted what Paul said EG.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God (NOT MAN) hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

And again;

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

The "New Creatures" are created unto "Good Works" which the Word which became Flesh created beforehand that we should walk in them.

What happens if you refuse "walk in them"?

a child of god will not refuse to walk in them, your adding to scripture, a new man eats fruit of work and it agrees with him, when they sin, they get ill, because it is poison to them.

Where as in our old self, sin was good tasting fruit, the work of God was poison, thats why we continued to live in sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Agreed 100%: loving others, selflessness and trusting God.

So I could say then if we love our neighbor as ourselves and are selfless and trust God we do not sin, right? It's just the opposite of what you said.

Is it possible for the believer to be selfless, loving of others, and to trust God all the time? Or is it impossible? I'm not asking about probable or likely.

If we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves and there is no truth in us.

john said this, it should answer your question, there was one sinless person, that was christ.

we keep going forward in grace, if we are worried about being sinless, our focus is on self not god or others. Agree?

 

[gb9]

Is that all you want to do is argue? This has nothing to do with my post,

here is a answer - studyman thinks the Pharisees were satan worshipers, and the 613 laws were to pull the people away from Yahweh. he was shown, one by one, by posthuman how all 613 go straight to the Torah, he blew it off and kept right on going.

so, that is his mindset. I have him on ignore for this ( and many ) reasons.

 

[Yahshua]

If we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves and there is no truth in us.

john said this, it should answer your question, there was one sinless person, that was christ.

we keep going forward in grace, if we are worried about being sinless, our focus is on self not god or others. Agree?

No one is sinless.....and the list and scripture I posted answers this or these questions...If you are asking if we can be faithful...yes we can be faithful, are you asking if we can be 100% sinless after salvation....NO....exactly why a, b and c are written unto believers.......can we be matured, sanctified in our walk and bring glory to God...YES, can we please God and serve God..yes....

I want you to ponder something.....

Out of the entire O.T. there were only three men listed that could be delivered by their righteousness IF IT WERE POSSIBLE
Out of the entire O.T. there was only ONE man listed that was translated that he should not see death
Out of the entire human race (untold billions or more) there was only one who 100% pleased God and walked in a manner that was without sin and or failure in some form or fashion.

Based upon the above truths.....what do you think?

I pondered...

I forgot about Enoch who pleased God so he was taken and didn't see death...and that reminds me of Elijah too. Now I'm not trolling or inciting an argument but I think you just shared the literal proof I was looking for that it IS possible, because we know that:

1) Scripture says all have sinned, and...
2) No sinful/impure thing can enter heaven, but...
3) Both Enoch and Elijah ascended to heaven bodily

...and scripture can't be broken...

So if all of this is true, that means there must be a case where these men were (a) sinful but then were (b) forgiven and then (c) no longer sinful in their walk in order to go to heaven in their bodies. Scripture says "the testimony of two or more establishes a truth" right?

So I think what James means is there's a difference between "saying we have no sin (to confess)" vs. "confessing our sin (we acknowledge we have)". The next question is, what happens to us once we've confessed them? Well I believe we are considered clean/spotless of sin by God at that point (of course until we've sinned again).

But is it possible to stay clean of sin from that point forward? Well I think Enoch and Elijah proved that it IS possible...whether it's probable or likely for me or us to do it is another matter altogether...and I believe that's where Christ's Holy Spirit and his divine strength (i.e. grace) comes into play; to teach us how to remain "sinless" in our walk to reach the point of an Enoch or Elijah.

----

I guess that's the point I'm getting at: is one really faithful if they're not trying to be sinless...and is that saving faith alive and growing if they're not progressively getting less and less sinful each day? Or is that person stuck in a never-ending loop of sin & repentance until the day of our lord, never moving onto that perfection/maturity you mentioned (Heb 6:1)?


EG said that claiming to have the faith that saves us, without the works (of repentance and love towards others, and trust in God; being the new man, etc) that prove our faith is true, shows their saving faith is dead.

And I agree with all of what he said.


1) So if one claims they are saved by grace through (their) faith...


2) ...but don't show the proof of that faith by doing the hard work of not sinning daily (assuming they will stumble at times but will still have make the strong effort not to sin each day)...


3) ...do they actually have the faith that saves them as they have claimed?

 

[TruthTalk]

Oh I know......................a catch 22 for sure........exactly why most criminals decry foul and innocence.......no ability to admit the truth....

I have yet to see one who pushes the law or obedience to the law as a part of their righteous standing and or for salvation to actually admit they break the very law abiding drivel that they push....and i do not mean tap dancing around indicating they have sinned and MIGHT SIN in the future, but rather an honest statement that they actually break the law.....

Great insight about those who have no ability to admit the truth, The Fall of Mankind; "It was that woman whom you gave to be with me" Gen3:12. For me it wasn't just committing an obvious sin like being caught in the act of adultery; we sin when it is in deeds or thought; in omission or commission, we are all guilty of being lawbreakers.

Free to not sin, not fully yet. Those who think they are perfectly sinless are like the criminals you speak about in your post; "no ability to admit the truth."

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 7:16-17, “Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John/Yahanan 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”[/FONT]

 

[Magenta]

I pondered...

I forgot about Enoch who pleased God so he was taken and didn't see death...and that reminds me of Elijah too. Now I'm not trolling or inciting an argument but I think you just shared the literal proof I was looking for that it IS possible, because we know that:

1) Scripture says all have sinned, and...
2) No sinful/impure thing can enter heaven, but...
3) Both Enoch and Elijah ascended to heaven bodily

...and scripture can't be broken...

No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man. Those are the words of Jesus from John 3:13.

 

[dcontroversal]

I pondered...

I forgot about Enoch who pleased God so he was taken and didn't see death...and that reminds me of Elijah too. Now I'm not trolling or inciting an argument but I think you just shared the literal proof I was looking for that it IS possible, because we know that:

1) Scripture says all have sinned, and...
2) No sinful/impure thing can enter heaven, but...
3) Both Enoch and Elijah ascended to heaven bodily

...and scripture can't be broken...

So if all of this is true, that means there must be a case where these men were (a) sinful but then were (b) forgiven and then (c) no longer sinful in their walk in order to go to heaven in their bodies. Scripture says "the testimony of two or more establishes a truth" right?

So I think what James means is there's a difference between "saying we have no sin (to confess)" vs. "confessing our sin (we acknowledge we have)". The next question is, what happens to us once we've confessed them? Well I believe we are considered clean/spotless of sin by God at that point (of course until we've sinned again).

But is it possible to stay clean of sin from that point forward? Well I think Enoch and Elijah proved that it IS possible...whether it's probable or likely for me or us to do it is another matter altogether...and I believe that's where Christ's Holy Spirit and his divine strength (i.e. grace) comes into play; to teach us how to remain "sinless" in our walk to reach the point of an Enoch or Elijah.

----

I guess that's the point I'm getting at: is one really faithful if they're not trying to be sinless...and is that saving faith alive and growing if they're not progressively getting less and less sinful each day? Or is that person stuck in a never-ending loop of sin & repentance until the day of our lord, never moving onto that perfection/maturity you mentioned (Heb 6:1)?


EG said that claiming to have the faith that saves us, without the works (of repentance and love towards others, and trust in God; being the new man, etc) that prove our faith is true, shows their saving faith is dead.

And I agree with all of what he said.


1) So if one claims they are saved by grace through (their) faith...


2) ...but don't show the proof of that faith by doing the hard work of not sinning daily (assuming they will stumble at times but will still have make the strong effort not to sin each day)...


3) ...do they actually have the faith that saves them as they have claimed?

Elijah had a moment of weakness and sin when he in pity, told God to go ahead and kill him and get it over with....the only thing they are an example of......those which are alive and remain caught up without dying....both were not sinless and or without sin....nice try..no cigar.....

 

[star]

How can anyone believe their salvation depends upon their works and that their keeping their salvation with their works is mind bending to me. How can any human believe they could do any work much less maintain enough works to get them into heaven? God Almighty, Creator of all doesn't need our works, which are like filthy rags compared to all the blessings He has bestowed upon us.

 

[TruthTalk]

Is that all you want to do is argue? This has nothing to do with my post,

I agree with gb9, I put Studyman on ignore many months ago.

 

[dcontroversal]

The lawyer is back firing his law keeping drivel...

Do you keep the law or not?

Still waiting on an honest answer if you KEEP the LAW

 

[eternally-gratefull]

here is a answer - studyman thinks the Pharisees were satan worshipers, and the 613 laws were to pull the people away from Yahweh. he was shown, one by one, by posthuman how all 613 go straight to the Torah, he blew it off and kept right on going.

so, that is his mindset. I have him on ignore for this ( and many ) reasons.

i have had him there a few times, for some reason i let him out, paul refutes him about the pharisee argument, but he refuses to listen.

 

[Yahshua]

Elijah had a moment of weakness and sin when he in pity, told God to go ahead and kill him and get it over with....the only thing they are an example of......those which are alive and remain caught up without dying....both were not sinless and or without sin....nice try..no cigar.....

I said both of them had to be:

a) sinful
b) forgiven
c) no longer sinful

The wages of sin is death...

How can a sinful Elijah enter into heaven without dying unless he was forgiven of his sin?

What happens when God forgives someone of their sins? Do they remain sinful or are they cleaned and made sinless?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I pondered...

I forgot about Enoch who pleased God so he was taken and didn't see death...and that reminds me of Elijah too. Now I'm not trolling or inciting an argument but I think you just shared the literal proof I was looking for that it IS possible, because we know that:

1) Scripture says all have sinned, and...
2) No sinful/impure thing can enter heaven, but...
3) Both Enoch and Elijah ascended to heaven bodily

...and scripture can't be broken...

So if all of this is true, that means there must be a case where these men were (a) sinful but then were (b) forgiven and then (c) no longer sinful in their walk in order to go to heaven in their bodies. Scripture says "the testimony of two or more establishes a truth" right?

So I think what James means is there's a difference between "saying we have no sin (to confess)" vs. "confessing our sin (we acknowledge we have)". The next question is, what happens to us once we've confessed them? Well I believe we are considered clean/spotless of sin by God at that point (of course until we've sinned again).

But is it possible to stay clean of sin from that point forward? Well I think Enoch and Elijah proved that it IS possible...whether it's probable or likely for me or us to do it is another matter altogether...and I believe that's where Christ's Holy Spirit and his divine strength (i.e. grace) comes into play; to teach us how to remain "sinless" in our walk to reach the point of an Enoch or Elijah.

----

I guess that's the point I'm getting at: is one really faithful if they're not trying to be sinless...and is that saving faith alive and growing if they're not progressively getting less and less sinful each day? Or is that person stuck in a never-ending loop of sin & repentance until the day of our lord, never moving onto that perfection/maturity you mentioned (Heb 6:1)?


EG said that claiming to have the faith that saves us, without the works (of repentance and love towards others, and trust in God; being the new man, etc) that prove our faith is true, shows their saving faith is dead.

And I agree with all of what he said.


1) So if one claims they are saved by grace through (their) faith...


2) ...but don't show the proof of that faith by doing the hard work of not sinning daily (assuming they will stumble at times but will still have make the strong effort not to sin each day)...


3) ...do they actually have the faith that saves them as they have claimed?

if you think it is hard work not to sin, you are going about it the wrong way, jesus said come to him and he will give you rest,

 

[dcontroversal]

I said both of them had to be:

a) sinful
b) forgiven
c) no longer sinful

The wages of sin is death...

How can a sinful Elijah enter into heaven without dying unless he was forgiven of his sin?

What happens when God forgives someone of their sins? Do they remain sinful or are they cleaned and made sinless?

The righteousness of Christ without the deeds of the law is applied by faith.....they are justified and the condemnation of the law is no longer leveled at them....does not change the fact that they sin....just that their sin is covered UNDER the banner of grace....that is what you are missing....