Not By Works

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AngelFrog

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2015
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Take up with him....the number is plenteous that comes before his throne pushing the same dogma that you push while fully expecting the right to enter based upon their claim of knowing him and all the wonderful works they have done in his name.....YOUR dogma exactly.......bad day for all who clam to know him and have the right to enter based upon what they have done and their wonderful works in his name.......
John 10:1-42
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.”

Well said.
The one that persists in calling Jesus a liar will answer before God come the judgment.
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
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Will try and figure out the multi post thing

Actually, it's much easier now on this new site. I never did figure it out on the old site. But now you can just hit reply to someones post and start typing (or highlight a portion of their post and start typing). Then don't hit reply and go looking for the next post or portion you want to quote and hit reply again. You will be taken to your box, which has your first quote and reply still there, with the second quote right under and awaiting your reply!
 
Mar 28, 2016
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James says that our faith is made perfect by good works.

Of course our final perfection will only be accomplished by the grace of Jesus Christ.
Yes made perfect by the good work of Christ who works in us to both will and do His good pleasure .Some grumble and complain and want that work to be in respect to their own self as if they worked for to gain their own salvation .its like the marriage union we don't work to become married we work it out, as Christ works with us

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: Philippians 2
 
Dec 12, 2013
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John 10:1-42
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.”

Well said.
The one that persists in calling Jesus a liar will answer before God come the judgment.
Yep.......and Jesus give eternal/everlasting life.....not temporary life that comes and goes based upon what we do or do not do.......He also keeps his promises to...

a. NEVER leave us or FORSAKE US
b. FINISH and COMPLETE the good work of faith he began IN US
c. HOLD us in his HAND
d. ACKNOWLEDGE us before the FATHER based upon OUR ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of HIM IN FAITH
e. PUNISH us when we stray, BUT NEVER CAST US OFF
f. LOVE US before we LOVED HIM
g. JUSTIFY us BY IMPUTED FAITH
h. TAKE ALL OF OUR SIN and nail it to the CROSS
I. SEE the BLOOD AND PASS OVER us IN JUDGEMENT
J. SEAL US BY THE HOLY SPIRIT of promise UNTO the day of REDEMPTION
k. SAVE US AND KEEP US BY HIS POWER through FAITH that HE starts and FINISHES
l. ETC

YOU are right....ALL who call or imply CHRIST is a LIAR by denying the above truths to say one can lose salvation like one loses a quarter in the parking lot of some store WILL pay the price....
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Act 5:29-39 ASV
(29) But Peter and the apostles answered and said, We must obey God rather than men.
(30) The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew, hanging him on a tree.
(31) Him did God exalt with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sins.
(32) And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
(33) But they, when they heard this, were cut to the heart, and minded to slay them.
(34) But there stood up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in honor of all the people, and commanded to put the men forth a little while.
(35) And he said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves as touching these men, what ye are about to do.
(36) For before these days rose up Theudas, giving himself out to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were dispersed, and came to nought.
(37) After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the enrolment, and drew away some of the people after him: he also perished; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered abroad.
(38) And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will be overthrown:
(39) but if it is of God, ye will not be able to overthrow them; lest haply ye be found even to be fighting against God.


Jesus is "of God." He cannot be overthrown.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Not necessarily. It depends on the direction you continue on. If you recognize your weakened faith, and repent and get back on the right path, you will be forgiven and all is right. If you continue to slide to the point of denying the HS, you will not be forgiven and will not have eternal life.

Jesus will force no man to heaven.
Then this verse applies to you,

Galatians 3:3
Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

God did the work of justification by sending his son, and his son did the work by enduring the cross, the spirit did the work of convincing you of your dire straight, and leading you to repentance, and bringing you to true saving faith in God, and then promised his work is not done, that he who started that good work will (not might) complete it until the day of christ, the promise that he has perfected forever the ones he is currently sanctifying, and they promise they have eternal life and will (again not might) be resurrected by him.

But no, you deny it, you take the work of God (the spirit) and think you can do it yourself (the flesh) claiming that if you fail to endure, you fail to complete, you fail to stay alive, all god promised will be null and void, thus paul calls you a fool
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Then this verse applies to you,

Galatians 3:3
Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

God did the work of justification by sending his son, and his son did the work by enduring the cross, the spirit did the work of convincing you of your dire straight, and leading you to repentance, and bringing you to true saving faith in God, and then promised his work is not done, that he who started that good work will (not might) complete it until the day of christ, the promise that he has perfected forever the ones he is currently sanctifying, and they promise they have eternal life and will (again not might) be resurrected by him.

But no, you deny it, you take the work of God (the spirit) and think you can do it yourself (the flesh) claiming that if you fail to endure, you fail to complete, you fail to stay alive, all god promised will be null and void, thus paul calls you a fool
Exactly.....as well as the "MANY" verse spoken by Jesus....he peddles the exact same dogma.........as do ALL who make salvation a works maintained farce and or that which is earned and or can be lost.......
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Exactly.....as well as the "MANY" verse spoken by Jesus....he peddles the exact same dogma.........as do ALL who make salvation a works maintained farce and or that which is earned and or can be lost.......
News flash, benhur is promoting a false salvation by works gospel, that can be lost.

benhur misrepresents and twists the words of the bible trying to uphold his lies. He tells fallacious fake stories that will never ever happen and then he tries to incorrectly tie his fake stories to scripture.

Rarely does he post a scripture because his interpretations and application of God's word is horrible and everybody knows it. He should spend more time at serious bible study or else try his hand at writing fiction.

He reads the bible like it was a novel and he will interpret the bible just as he see's fit to do.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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We had a new song in our Worship Services this morning. I really like what it says,
"NOW I STAND ON WHAT HE DID,
MY SAVIOR! MY SAVIOR LIVES!

 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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A Jesus of their own mind and liking. NOT THE REAL JESUS.

Matthew 7:13-23 (NKJV)
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction [of hell], and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are
few who find it.
15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven,
but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22
Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 And then I will declare to them,
'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
So you too are in the tiny group that thinks they worship the correct Jesus and 90% of all other Christians worship the wrong Jesus?

So if Christians don't believe 100% of what you and decon and truthtalk believe, then we are in trouble and our Jesus will not save us? Is that how it works. That sounds like what the Mormons say.

I would even say that if we were to dig further into this doctrine of being saved, I would be able to find differences between you and decon, truthtalk will follow decon anywhere he goes, but I don't think you will.
So on the first level of the doctrine, you may agree 100% with decon. On the second level, you may only agree 90%. On the third level, you may agree only 60%. So the deeper we investigate, the deeper the division will occur.

When do you say, wait a minute, my Jesus says this, and decon, your Jesus says that. And all of a sudden we have a problem. Who's Jesus is the right Jesus, yours or decons? They cannot be the same Jesus because the belief system is different, even though it started out the same. And we are talking about only 1 doctrine of many.
 

AngelFrog

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2015
648
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Do we really think God is unaware when his son or daughter stumbles navigating this life while sealed with His Holy Spirit? No. Acts 10:43 "To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

THE HEART OF THE GOSPEL (Acts 10:34-43)
10:34-43 So Peter opened his mouth and said, "In truth I have come to understand that God has no favourites; but that in every nation he who fears him and acts righteously is acceptable to him. As for the word which God sent to the sons of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ--this is he who is Lord of all you all know the affair that happened all over Judaea, after the baptism which John preached--you know about Jesus of Nazareth, about how God anointed him with the Spirit and with power, about how he went about healing all who were under the sway of the devil because God was with him; we are witnesses of all he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. And they took him and hanged him on a tree. It was he whom God raised up on the third day and made him evident, not to all the people but to the witnesses elected beforehand by God, to us who were with him and who ate with him and drank with him after he rose from the dead. And he gave us orders to preach to the people and to testify that this is he who was set apart by God, to be the judge of the living and the dead. To him all the prophets testify that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/dsb/acts-10.html
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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i did also use my words to explain that chapter

a large point of that speech is to show His children (saved forever as He has promised) how even though they are saved
their actions still have consequences.... the chastening of a loving father will not only continue until the child is corrected

but also his wasted efforts earn no spiritual rewards

let me use an example

lets say joe is a loving father to a son

and he wants to use his son for lawn work and pay him accordingly

well lets say his son is holding a grudge against the neighbors son

and refuses to forgive him or mow their lawn

you will not only punish him until he gets in line

youre not going to pay him if he does not do the job....


the reason Jesus is telling His saved believers to not be like the hypcrits and do works for show
is because
this is an issue of the heart and having a pure and true relationship with God

but the verse has nothing to do with the loss of salvation

God is not a liar and keeps His promises
You are right, God is not a liar, so you better be willing to forgive all who trespass against you, or God will not forgive you your trespasses against him. If God said that (which he did in the bible Matthew 6:14-15, I would not ignore that statement. For as you say, God is not a liar. And also according to you, he was talking to those who were saved already. Proving that OSAS is a false doctrine.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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Only one way....having the righteousness of Christ imputed to our account by faith without the works/deeds of the law.....
The scriptures talk about repentance. How does this doctrine fit into your theology?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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So you too are in the tiny group that thinks they worship the correct Jesus and 90% of all other Christians worship the wrong Jesus?

So if Christians don't believe 100% of what you and decon and truthtalk believe, then we are in trouble and our Jesus will not save us? Is that how it works. That sounds like what the Mormons say.

I would even say that if we were to dig further into this doctrine of being saved, I would be able to find differences between you and decon, truthtalk will follow decon anywhere he goes, but I don't think you will.
So on the first level of the doctrine, you may agree 100% with decon. On the second level, you may only agree 90%. On the third level, you may agree only 60%. So the deeper we investigate, the deeper the division will occur.

When do you say, wait a minute, my Jesus says this, and decon, your Jesus says that. And all of a sudden we have a problem. Who's Jesus is the right Jesus, yours or decons? They cannot be the same Jesus because the belief system is different, even though it started out the same. And we are talking about only 1 doctrine of many.
Putting percentages aside you also preached the wrong Jesus, as you think I do.

That is reality.

So those who disagree with you are in the tiny group and you are not
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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if someone believes that

and also believe He casts His own out when He said He wouldn't that would make them double minded

and they would have to believe that God goes back on His promises (which God specifically says He does not do)

so that someone is either calling God a liar

or just lacking knowledge regarding the promises of God
If conditions dictate it, God can very easily go back on His promises. Read the parable of the merciful king. Here the king gives an extraordinary gift to a man, then the man goes out and does an outrageously bad thing. The king calls the man back into his palace and not only takes away the gift, but puts him into prison.

IOW it is not a 1 say street. God promises and if you follow him, he keeps his promise. If you choose not to follow him, he can take back his promise.

Perfect example is the parable of the merciful king. The king (God) gave a great gift to the man. I am sure the king expected this man to follow him. The man did not follow the kings example, and immediately went out and imprisoned a man that owed him far far less. When the king heard of his doings, He took from the man his gift and introduced a jail sentence for him too.

So don't think just because you had a holy experience once in your life, that that is the end. That was just the beginning, and now you have to follow (which means you do and act like Jesus did and acted). If you do not, the promise will be taken away.

If you love me, do as i have commanded you. Since love is greater than faith, I know Jesus can say the same thing about faith. If you have faith, follow thou me, and do as I have commanded you. Or another way to say that is do the works that Jesus has prepared for you before this world was. If you do not, his promise can be taken back. Since he has warned you, do as he has commanded you to do.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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If conditions dictate it, God can very easily go back on His promises. Read the parable of the merciful king. Here the king gives an extraordinary gift to a man, then the man goes out and does an outrageously bad thing. The king calls the man back into his palace and not only takes away the gift, but puts him into prison.

IOW it is not a 1 say street. God promises and if you follow him, he keeps his promise. If you choose not to follow him, he may not keep his promise.

Perfect example is the parable of the merciful king. The king (God) gave a great gift to the man. I am sure the king expected this man to follow him. The man did not follow the kings example, and immediately went out and imprisoned a man that owed him far far less. When the king heard of his doings, He took from the man his gift and introduced a jail sentence for him too.

So don't think just because you had a holy experience once in your life, that that is the end. That was just the beginning, and now you have to follow (which means you do and act like Jesus did and acted). If you do not, the promise will be taken away.

If you love me, do as i have commanded you. Since love is greater than faith, I know Jesus can say the same thing about faith. If you have faith, follow thou me, and do as I have commanded you. Or another way to say that is do the works that Jesus has prepared for you before this world was. If you do not, his promise can be taken back. Since he has warned you, do as he has commanded you to do.
If God can go back on his promises then it's not a promise.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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What is repentance?
Not what they think.......it simply means to change your mind and agree with God.....agree that we are sinners and that salvation is by grace through faith...........the whole concept of changing one's mindset........another simple truth blown out of proportion......