Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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I have never seen you so far removed from, "The Gospel" than this post, it is a pity you have no eternal security for the salvation God has provided for you. You need to study about, "The Eternal Security of the Believer." Google it.
Amen....his post is so far from the truth it is tragic.....the bible is clear...SALVATION is instantly imparted at the moment of belief and carries a present continuing result from a PAST COMPLETED ACTION....RIGHT NOW ARE WE THE SONS OF GOD by BIRTH of INCORRUPTABLE SEED.....amazing how many twist this simple truth into a false dogma like he does....
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Theologians refer to this as "ultimate sanctification", when we stand before Christ at the "Bema seat" for rewards of service in the "Body of Christ." We are always sanctified from the time we are born again to our glorification in heaven.

And we are saved the moment we are born again and throughout our Christian life. I have highlighted the part where you said, "we are not "truly saved", and this seems to be a stumbling point between you and I, "security of the believer." :)

There is not one point in time where we are not "saved and sanctified" otherwise we could not serve a "Holy God"
The Bema Seat is where we are Judged according to our deeds.

  • God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:


God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Amen....his post is so far from the truth it is tragic.....the bible is clear...SALVATION is instantly imparted at the moment of belief and carries a present continuing result from a PAST COMPLETED ACTION....RIGHT NOW ARE WE THE SONS OF GOD by BIRTH of INCORRUPTABLE SEED.....amazing how many twist this simple truth into a false dogma like he does....
Where on earth does his notion of salvation come from, I wish we all new and that he wasn't so secretive about where his teaching comes from. If I said I have a gift for you but you can only have that gift at the end of your life what kind of "Good News" is that. benhur's gospel is not "Good News" at all. I have never hear a Church preach a nonsense gospel like that ever.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Amen....his post is so far from the truth it is tragic.....the bible is clear...SALVATION is instantly imparted at the moment of belief and carries a present continuing result from a PAST COMPLETED ACTION....RIGHT NOW ARE WE THE SONS OF GOD by BIRTH of INCORRUPTABLE SEED.....amazing how many twist this simple truth into a false dogma like he does....
Salvation is at the moment we obey the Gospel.


It continues as long as we continue in the faith.


  • if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel


21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Colossians 1:21-23



JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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RIGHT NOW ARE WE THE SONS OF GOD by BIRTH of INCORRUPTABLE SEED.....
We are sons of God by faith in Christ.

We now have the power to become sons of God in which we are counted worthy to obtain the resurrection of life.


But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12


Paul explains -


19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.


24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
Romans 8:19, 24-25


Paul using the language of faith explains that we are eagerly waiting for the salvation that we now hope for.


Jesus says it this way -


34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36


  • nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God.


JPT
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Yes, our entire lifetime we pursue practical sanctification and then at the end, Jesus finally saves us with his grace and that sanctifying
grace lifts us up to a brand new level and we are now ready to be ultimately sanctified after our resurrection, and enter into the KOG.

I just believe that during that practical sanctification problem, we can choose to renege on God and in fact fight him. Plenty of Christians have gone that route. In that case the grace of Christ will not save us and we will lose our salvation and not be practically or finally ultimately sanctified. So we have a difference that I would like to continue to pursue, in a friendly discussion. Thanks.

SQUARE THAT WITH THESE SCRIPTURES:

John 6:47 (CSBBible)
47 "Truly I tell you, anyone who believes has eternal life.

John 3:36 (ESV)
36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life;
whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.


John 5:24 (HCSB)
24 “I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me
has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.

1 Timothy 1:16 (NJB)
16 and if mercy has been shown to me, it is because Jesus Christ meant to make me the leading example of his inexhaustible patience for all the other people who were later to trust in him for eternal life.

1 John 5:10-11 (CSBBible)
10 The one who believes in the Son of God has this testimony within himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony God has given about his Son.
11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1 John 3:14-15 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him. {Implying that we do have eternal life residing in us.}

2 Timothy 1:9 (NJB)
9 who has saved us and called us to be holy—not because of anything we ourselves had done but for his own purpose and by his own grace. This grace had already been granted to us, in Christ Jesus, before the beginning of time,

Romans 5:1 (ESV)
1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:9 (NASB)
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

Romans 8:10 (NJB)
10 But when Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin but the spirit is alive because you have been justified;

1 Corinthians 6:11 (HCSB)
11 And some of you used to be like this. But you were washed, you were sanctified {in your spirit}, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Titus 3:6-7 (HCSB)
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.


eternal life residing in him.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
sometimes I wonder, if God is solvereign, why does God not unveil everyone's eyes to the truth?
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
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ben, I have been telling you the TRUTH. HE wrote our names in the BOOK OF LIFE BEFORE HE FORMED THE EARTH. HE knows who will be Faithful and who will fall away, before HE wrote our names in the BOOK OF LIFE. The old argument between Calvinist and Armenians is it Predestination OR Freedom to CHOOSE WHO YOU WILL SERVE, and few have ever realized that the TRUTH is not in those two opposite choices. The THIRD CHOICE is HE CHOSE US before HE formed the WORLD, because HE KNEW who would CHOOSE HIM without falling away. IT IS BOTH, and I am convinced that is the truth.

SALVATION IS IN THAT MOMENT OF TIME WHEN WE FIRST BELIEVED, because HE knows every decision we will make before HE formed the WORLD. IT IS A DONE DEAL, before we made those DECISIONS, therefore the SAVED are those who genuinely CHOOSE to BELIEVE.

AFTER WE ARE SAVED, then ALL of the Decisions about being SANCTIFIED WILL be made.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

If we are Truly Born Again:
Why DO WE WANT TO BE SANCTIFIED?
Because we are GOD's Children, and we WANT to be like our Heavenly Daddy.
If we Please Him, some day HE will reward good behavior,
and SALVATION IS NOT A REWARD, IT IS A FREE GIFT.
If we Do No Please Him, HE will give us a good spanking.

So all you Armenians and Calvinist, go ahead and throw your STONES,
But that is what the HOLY SPIRIT has put on my heart to BELIEVE.
Most people will disagree with you, most Christian's I've met don't believe in God's predestination or His elect.

Most believe we are saved by faith in Christ, where we choose to believe in Him to receive salvation.

It comes down to two views, either we are saved by our obedience and faith or God saves us because He chose us before He created the world.

You can use the Bible to support both views, this question has been argued for centuries and we are no closer to a consensus.

I think your view is in line with Calvin's. he also believed in predestination. This question has divided the Church and it will continue to divide because you can use the Bible to argue both views.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,998
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Salvation is at the moment we obey the Gospel.

It continues as long as we continue in the faith.

if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Colossians 1:21-23

JPT
We obey the Gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16; 10:16).

Those who continue in the faith demonstrate that their faith was firmly rooted and established in Christ from the beginning. Those who do not continue demonstrate otherwise.

To believe in vain = did not truly believe. It means this belief failed to take root and become firmly established, which explains why the person did not hold fast to the word which Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

If they have not held fast that word which Paul preached, then they demonstrate that they believed in vain/without cause or without effect, to no purpose.

In Colossians 1:23, the word "if" here is not ean, an unfulfilled, hypothetical condition used with the subjunctive mode, presenting the possibility of a future realization, but ei with the indicative, having here the idea of "assuming that you continue in the faith."

The form of this phrase in Greek (using the Gk. particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed, yet what about "nominal" Christians whose shallow, temporary belief withers away? They believed in vain.

It's only natural that Paul would speak this way, for he is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians, without being able to know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance here that they will be saved when in fact they may not?

Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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Does anyone here think that the Disciples of Jesus Christ thought they must wait for there salvation or were they already saved. Our daily practical sanctification is each individual working out his salvation with fear and trembling; We are already save at our "New Heavenly Birth" but we need to grow and mature in Christ.
You cannot work your way to heaven; "Not By Works"

Zechariah4:6
'Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,' says the LORD Almighty."

How about Moses and the Israelite's; did God provide their way of escape at the time of their need, of course He did.
The Prophet Jonah's Prayer, "Salvation is of the Lord" it took a big fish to save him.
The thief on the cross; I will see you in paradise "Today."

John5:24
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

2Corinthians6:2
For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, "now is the day of salvation."
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,256
4,198
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Most people will disagree with you, most Christian's I've met don't believe in God's predestination or His elect.

Most believe we are saved by faith in Christ, where we choose to believe in Him to receive salvation.

It comes down to two views, either we are saved by our obedience and faith or God saves us because He chose us before He created the world.

You can use the Bible to support both views, this question has been argued for centuries and we are no closer to a consensus.

I think your view is in line with Calvin's. he also believed in predestination. This question has divided the Church and it will continue to divide because you can use the Bible to argue both views.

SAD, but it is true!

But you man want to reconsider after reading these verses:


Matthew 24:31 (HCSB)
31 He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.


Taking about the BEAST of Revelation:


Revelation 13:8-9 (HCSB)
8 All those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
9 If anyone has an ear, he should listen:

Revelation 17:8 (HCSB)
8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up from the abyss and go to destruction. Those who live on the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast that was, and is not, and will be present ⌊again⌋.

Revelation 20:14-15 (HCSB)
14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Romans 8:27-30 (HCSB)
27 And He who searches the hearts knows the Spirit’s mind-set, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
28 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He predestined us to be adopted through Jesus Christ for Himself, according to His favor and will,
6 to the praise of His glorious grace that He favored us with in the Beloved.
7 We have redemption in Him through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
8 that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.

Ephesians 1:11-12 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.


You see, I am foolish ENOUGH to Believe all of the Bible was inspired by GOD HIMSELF, and I BELIEVE IT?

So what are you foolish enough to Believe, . . . . . . Evolution?


Matthew 7:13-14 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.


Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day
many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
113
We obey the Gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16; 10:16).

Those who continue in the faith demonstrate that their faith was firmly rooted and established in Christ from the beginning. Those who do not continue demonstrate otherwise.

To believe in vain = did not truly believe. It means this belief failed to take root and become firmly established, which explains why the person did not hold fast to the word which Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

If they have not held fast that word which Paul preached, then they demonstrate that they believed in vain/without cause or without effect, to no purpose.

In Colossians 1:23, the word "if" here is not ean, an unfulfilled, hypothetical condition used with the subjunctive mode, presenting the possibility of a future realization, but ei with the indicative, having here the idea of "assuming that you continue in the faith."

The form of this phrase in Greek (using the Gk. particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed, yet what about "nominal" Christians whose shallow, temporary belief withers away? They believed in vain.

It's only natural that Paul would speak this way, for he is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians, without being able to know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance here that they will be saved when in fact they may not?

Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers.
Thank you Mailmandan, I think it is safe to say that everyone hear appreciates your ability to translate and interpret the Greek language into English. Where there may be misunderstandings in the English text the Greek tenths and definitions can sometimes untangle many false interpretations.

Now if you can repeat the Greek alphabet backwards you win the prize.......:coffee:
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
124
43
SAD, but it is true!

But you man want to reconsider after reading these verses:


Matthew 24:31 (HCSB)
31 He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.


Taking about the BEAST of Revelation:


Revelation 13:8-9 (HCSB)
8 All those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
9 If anyone has an ear, he should listen:

Revelation 17:8 (HCSB)
8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up from the abyss and go to destruction. Those who live on the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast that was, and is not, and will be present ⌊again⌋.

Revelation 20:14-15 (HCSB)
14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Romans 8:27-30 (HCSB)
27 And He who searches the hearts knows the Spirit’s mind-set, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
28 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He predestined us to be adopted through Jesus Christ for Himself, according to His favor and will,
6 to the praise of His glorious grace that He favored us with in the Beloved.
7 We have redemption in Him through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
8 that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.

Ephesians 1:11-12 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.


You see, I am foolish ENOUGH to Believe all of the Bible was inspired by GOD HIMSELF, and I BELIEVE IT?

So what are you foolish enough to Believe, . . . . . . Evolution?


Matthew 7:13-14 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.


Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day
many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
Reading this has made my day, thank you so much for putting it together so well.

I'm am surprised at the number of people here who deny these scriptures and hold to the notion that one is saved if they believe, obey and have faith. The above scriptures that we do all of those things because He first chose to save us and regenerate us to conform to the image of His Son.

The greatest joy in the life of a Christian is knowing that we 100% saved without any doubt, so we don't have any fear of losing our salvation due to some sins we may commit in the future. He has forgiven all our past, present and future sins, what an amazing blessing that is. It's truly liberating and it fills the believer with joy.

I feel pity for those who strive in works based salvation, belief systems. They can't find reassurance or joy, they are constantly worried that they might not make it or that they might lose their salvation.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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John5:24
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7


Those who have faith in Christ Jesus, are in Christ, whereby they are joined to Him and are one spirit with Him.


But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

As long as you are “in Christ” you have eternal life.


Those who do not remain or abide in Christ, no longer have eternal life.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6



JPT
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,256
4,198
113
Reading this has made my day, thank you so much for putting it together so well.

I'm am surprised at the number of people here who deny these scriptures and hold to the notion that one is saved if they believe, obey and have faith. The above scriptures that we do all of those things because He first chose to save us and regenerate us to conform to the image of His Son.

The greatest joy in the life of a Christian is knowing that we 100% saved without any doubt, so we don't have any fear of losing our salvation due to some sins we may commit in the future. He has forgiven all our past, present and future sins, what an amazing blessing that is. It's truly liberating and it fills the believer with joy.

I feel pity for those who strive in works based salvation, belief systems. They can't find reassurance or joy, they are constantly worried that they might not make it or that they might lose their salvation.
My guess is you did not thoroughly read my origininal post on this subject. I said "GOD choose those He Predestined, BECAUSE He knew before the foundation of the WORLD, who would CHOOSE HIM, and LOVE HIM Forever." It is BOTH Predestination, and FREEDOM OF CHOICE, that I BELIEVE IS THE TRUTH, NOT ONE or THE OTHER.

Now I will go a Step Further. I believe HE in HIS Omnipresence, IS not LIMITED to just SPACE, but also TIME IT SELF. He maybe Omnipresent in all of Space at the SAME TIME, AND ALL OF TIME AT THE SAME TIME. GOD IS NOT a being trapped in TIME, HE IS THE CREATOR of TIME as we KNOW IT, and the Creator of Space. If He exists OUT SIDE of TIME as we KNOW IT, then HE CAN potentially BE PRESENT AT EVERY CONVERSION THAT HAS HAPPEN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME AND ON INTO THE FUTURE, and therefore . Therefore, HE CAN DECLARE THE END FROM THE BEGINNING, BECAUSE HE IS ALREADY THERE, and HE CAN Put our NAMES in the Book of Life, before HE formed the World, BECAUSE HE IS AT EVERY CONVERSION.

NOW if you can wrap your head around that, you may REALIZE that GOD IS MUCH, MUCH BIGGER than you used to THINK HE WAS. Now that is speculation, BUT IT IS VERY PLAUSIBLE TOO.
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
124
43
that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7


Those who have faith in Christ Jesus, are in Christ, whereby they are joined to Him and are one spirit with Him.


But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

As long as you are “in Christ” you have eternal life.


Those who do not remain or abide in Christ, no longer have eternal life.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6



JPT
"those who do not abide in Christ, don'
My guess is you did not thoroughly read my origininal post on this subject. I said "GOD choose those He Predestined, BECAUSE He knew before the foundation of the WORLD, who would CHOOSE HIM, and LOVE HIM Forever." It is BOTH Predestination, and FREEDOM OF CHOICE, that I BELIEVE IS THE TRUTH, NOT ONE or THE OTHER.

Now I will go a Step Further. I believe HE in HIS Omnipresence, IS not LIMITED to just SPACE, but also TIME IT SELF. He maybe Omnipresent in all of Space at the SAME TIME, AND ALL OF TIME AT THE SAME TIME. GOD IS NOT a being trapped in TIME, HE IS THE CREATOR of TIME as we KNOW IT, and the Creator of Space. If He exists OUT SIDE of TIME as we KNOW IT, then HE CAN potentially BE PRESENT AT EVERY CONVERSION THAT HAS HAPPEN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME AND ON INTO THE FUTURE, and therefore . Therefore, HE CAN DECLARE THE END FROM THE BEGINNING, BECAUSE HE IS ALREADY THERE, and HE CAN Put our NAMES in the Book of Life, before HE formed the World, BECAUSE HE IS AT EVERY CONVERSION.

NOW if you can wrap your head around that, you may REALIZE that GOD IS MUCH, MUCH BIGGER than you used to THINK HE WAS. Now that is speculation, BUT IT IS VERY PLAUSIBLE TOO.
I believe God is even bigger than you described Him. I would go a step further and say, He is sovereign over all while you don't believe that. You limit Him to a spectator, I give Him all power and Glory. He is not a spectator in His creation, He is the author and finisher of everything including our salvation.

So we can't have a God who knows all things and created all things but with no power to save those He created.

I believe He is in full control of all things, and that includes who He chooses to save. So man is not in control of something as important as that, because nobody would be saved if they were because all were born dead in trespasses and sin .
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Does anyone here think that the Disciples of Jesus Christ thought they must wait for there salvation or were they already saved. Our daily practical sanctification is each individual working out his salvation with fear and trembling; We are already save at our "New Heavenly Birth" but we need to grow and mature in Christ.
You cannot work your way to heaven; "Not By Works"

Zechariah4:6
'Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,' says the LORD Almighty."

How about Moses and the Israelite's; did God provide their way of escape at the time of their need, of course He did.
The Prophet Jonah's Prayer, "Salvation is of the Lord" it took a big fish to save him.
The thief on the cross; I will see you in paradise "Today."

John5:24
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

2Corinthians6:2
For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, "now is the day of salvation."

Jesus promised to give us rest if we came to him, What kind of rest can one truly have if they are not assured eternal life? If peopel are honest with themselves. The answer is truly no rest. Only fear.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
the biggest threat to our faith, is when someone abusively doubts our salvation, and then present us a different gospel, and we are faced with two different gospels, pulled in two directions
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7
Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain.

*Strong's Concordance #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope. Short Definition: hope, expectation, trust, confidence. Hope is another aspect of faith. If we have saving faith then we have this hope. Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is the substance of things HOPED for, the evidence of things not seen. Titus 3:7 - So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the HOPE of eternal life.

Those who do not remain or abide in Christ, no longer have eternal life.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6
Those who do not remain or abide, like Judas Iscariot, demonstrate that they never had Christ. In John 15, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit (vs. 2) but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit. So in John 15, we see two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit and the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). - https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/john/john-15.html

Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, He neither elected them, nor saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the dead self-attached fruitless branches are cut off.