Not By Works

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Oct 31, 2015
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the apostle has repeatedly stressed the need for faith alone, just as the Reformers had discovered. It seems rather strange that in chapter 10 Paul would add to justification by faith the need for “confession” —
The Bible teaches us the principle of faith and how faith becomes alive or activated so that it justifies.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21



22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:22

It takes obedience to what God commands to do, for faith to be complete.


Just like a body without a spirit is dead and incomplete, in which it is dormant and does not function.


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26




JPT
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
The Bible teaches us the principle of faith and how faith becomes alive or activated so that it justifies.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21



22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:22

It takes obedience to what God commands to do, for faith to be complete.


Just like a body without a spirit is dead and incomplete, in which it is dormant and does not function.


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26




JPT
Romans 4
4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Galatians 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ Matthew 25:34-36


Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

for I was hungry and you gave Me food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
I was naked and you clothed Me;
I was sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me.’


Can anyone honestly answer why these inherited the kingdom of God?



JPT
Because they loved Jesus, placed their faith in Jesus and as a result loved others.

Not because they had to in order to inherit the kingdom but because they are in the kingdom.

As you say from the foundation of the world.

As follows

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

What I find interesting is that the sheep said

Matthew 25:44-45
44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’

He says "To one of those" not to all of those"

Yet I also find interesting is that the sheep say "When did the things that you commend us for?
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Galatians 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.



This scripture shows us perfectly how Abraham was justified by the obedience of faith and also typified the example of being saved by obeying the Gospel.


8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” Galatians 3:8


“In you all the nations shall be blessed", is a reference to Genesis 12:3.


Now the Lord had said to Abram:

“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
2 I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
4 So Abram departed as the Lord had spoken to him
Genesis 12:1-4


The Lord called Abraham to turn from his old life and submit to Him, and follow Him.


When the Lord spoke to Abraham, he then had faith, it was when Abraham obeyed what the Lord had spoken to him, that he was justified.


If Abraham would not have obeyed, then there would be no fulfillment of the promise:


I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”



Hebrews says it this way -

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8




That is why Paul calls it the obedience of faith -


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26




JPT
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,251
3,991
113
The Bible teaches us the principle of faith and how faith becomes alive or activated so that it justifies.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21



22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:22

It takes obedience to what God commands to do, for faith to be complete.


Just like a body without a spirit is dead and incomplete, in which it is dormant and does not function.


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26




JPT
So are we justified by works that leads to faith or by faith that leads to works?

Abram was called by God many years before he was willing to sacrifice Issac.
He believed and left his country.

Was that not that justified him?

After all that was obedience?

We must remember that he also messed up big time, which I think could be the reason for the issues we have in the Middle East. Hagar & Ishmael.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Because they loved Jesus, placed their faith in Jesus and as a result loved others.

Not because they had to in order to inherit the kingdom but because they are in the kingdom.

As you say from the foundation of the world.

As follows

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

What I find interesting is that the sheep said

Matthew 25:44-45
44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’

He says "To one of those" not to all of those"

Yet I also find interesting is that the sheep say "When did the things that you commend us for?

The answer, to those who are honest is found in the very words of Jesus that you plainly ignore.


34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ Matthew 25:34-36


Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

for I was hungry and you gave Me food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
I was naked and you clothed Me;
I was sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me.’



For is another way of saying because.


Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Because, I was hungry and you gave Me food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
I was naked and you clothed Me;
I was sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me.’


This is simple to see, just look at the reson these servants of His did not inherit the kingdom -



“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

for I was hungry and you gave Me no food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
I was a stranger and you did not take Me in,
naked and you did not clothe Me,
sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’




JPT
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
So are we justified by works that leads to faith or by faith that leads to works?

Abram was called by God many years before he was willing to sacrifice Issac.
He believed and left his country.

Was that not that justified him?

After all that was obedience?

We must remember that he also messed up big time, which I think could be the reason for the issues we have in the Middle East. Hagar & Ishmael.
amen bro
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,251
3,991
113
This scripture shows us perfectly how Abraham was justified by the obedience of faith and also typified the example of being saved by obeying the Gospel.


8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” Galatians 3:8


“In you all the nations shall be blessed", is a reference to Genesis 12:3.


Now the Lord had said to Abram:

“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
2 I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
4 So Abram departed as the Lord had spoken to him
Genesis 12:1-4


The Lord called Abraham to turn from his old life and submit to Him, and follow Him.


When the Lord spoke to Abraham, he then had faith, it was when Abraham obeyed what the Lord had spoken to him, that he was justified.


If Abraham would not have obeyed, then there would be no fulfillment of the promise:


I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”



Hebrews says it this way -

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8




That is why Paul calls it the obedience of faith -


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26




JPT
So then he was justified when he left his country
 
Oct 31, 2015
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So are we justified by works that leads to faith or by faith that leads to works?

Obedience is the word I used.

It is called the obedience of faith. It is the principle as to how faith is activated; made alive.


It's actually what "by faith" means.


7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


By faith means God spoke to a person, if which they now have faith, [faith comes by hearing] and the person responded with the corresponding act of obedience.



Example: Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well.


20 And suddenly, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment. 21 For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.” 22 But Jesus turned around, and when He saw her He said, “Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And the woman was made well from that hour. Matthew 9:20-21


  • a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment.

God moved on this womans heart, to press past hers fears, and to touch the hem of His garment.



When she acted, and touched the hem of His garment, she was made whole.


The obedience of faith.


Simply doing what God told her to do.





JPT
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,251
3,991
113
The answer, to those who are honest is found in the very words of Jesus that you plainly ignore.


34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ Matthew 25:34-36


Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

for I was hungry and you gave Me food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
I was naked and you clothed Me;
I was sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me.’



For is another way of saying because.


Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Because, I was hungry and you gave Me food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
I was naked and you clothed Me;
I was sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me.’


This is simple to see, just look at the reson these servants of His did not inherit the kingdom -



“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

for I was hungry and you gave Me no food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
I was a stranger and you did not take Me in,
naked and you did not clothe Me,
sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’




JPT
Just like you do.

I tried try to engage and you toss me aside and accuse me of ignoring the words of Jesus.

What a nasty piece of work you are.

You have no love or compassion for a so called brother like me.

I love Jesus with all my heart, yet you tell me I disregard him.

I gave my reasons why they were saved BECAUSE THEY DID IT FOR HIM
 
Oct 31, 2015
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So then he was justified when he left his country
Yes.

And He was justified again, when He offered Issac on the altar.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21


Works here is not the work that earns, or the works of the law or even good works.


Works here is obedience; The obedience of faith



JPT
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,251
3,991
113
Obedience is the word I used.

It is called the obedience of faith. It is the principle as to how faith is activated; made alive.


It's actually what "by faith" means.


7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


By faith means God spoke to a person, if which they now have faith, [faith comes by hearing] and the person responded with the corresponding act of obedience.



Example: Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well.


20 And suddenly, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment. 21 For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.” 22 But Jesus turned around, and when He saw her He said, “Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And the woman was made well from that hour. Matthew 9:20-21


  • a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment.

God moved on this womans heart, to press past hers fears, and to touch the hem of His garment.



When she acted, and touched the hem of His garment, she was made whole.


The obedience of faith.


Simply doing what God told her to do.





JPT
So when Abram slept with Hagar and had a son called Ismael he was being obedient?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,251
3,991
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Yes.

And He was justified again, when He offered Issac on the altar.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21


Works here is not the work that earns, or the works of the law or even good works.


Works here is obedience; The obedience of faith



JPT
Oh justified once then again and again and again.

ED is past tense as is SANCTIFIED
 
Oct 31, 2015
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I gave my reasons why they were saved BECAUSE THEY DID IT FOR HIM

I would say they did do it for HIm, in obedience to His Life within them, as He moved upon them with His love and compassion.


They love Him, and demonstrate their love for Him by loving people.


  • Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’



37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’ Matthew 25:37-40




JPT
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,251
3,991
113
I would say they did do it for HIm, in obedience to His Life within them, as He moved upon them with His love and compassion.


They love Him, and demonstrate their love for Him by loving people.


  • Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’



37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’ Matthew 25:37-40




JPT
Same thing as I said

Because they loved Jesus, placed their faith in Jesus and as a result loved others.

No doubt you will twist that as well
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,256
4,198
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The Bible teaches us the principle of faith and how faith becomes alive or activated so that it justifies.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21



22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:22

It takes obedience to what God commands to do, for faith to be complete.


Just like a body without a spirit is dead and incomplete, in which it is dormant and does not function.


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26




JPT

You have the WRONG INTERPRETATION again. James DOES NOT CONTRADICT Eph. 2:8-9, and Titus 3:5-7.

WHAT HAPPENED WHEN ABRAHAM WAS WILLING TO OFFER UP ISAAC?

GOD PROVIDED A SUBSTITUTE SACRIFICE! ABRAHAM KNEW AND BELIEVED GOD WOULD SEND AN ULTIMATE SACRIFICE FOR SIN, THE MESSIAH.

THEREFORE, BECAUSE ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, IT WAS COUNTED UNTO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS, WITHOUT WORKS BEING INVOLVED IN SALVATION.

ABRAHAM DID SHOW HIS LOVE FOR GOD, WITH HIS WORKS, BUT GOD SAVED HIM BECAUSE HE BELIEVED GOD, WITHOUT WORKS.


Romans 4:3-5 (HCSB)
3 For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
4 Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.

Genesis 22:8 (HCSB)
8 Abraham answered, God Himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” Then the two of them walked on together.


There is Abraham's faith, before they got to the Mountain.


As Paul Harvey would say, "AND NOW . . . . . . YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY."
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Oh justified once then again and again and again.

ED is past tense as is SANCTIFIED

I'm just showing what the scriptures say.

I only see the two different times.


And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” Galatians 3:8


This is from Genesis 12:1-3


Then again in Genesis 22, which James describes.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21



JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,019
519
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Same thing as I said

Because they loved Jesus, placed their faith in Jesus and as a result loved others.

No doubt you will twist that as well

Actually I agreed with you.


I would say they did do it for Him, in obedience to His Life within them, as He moved upon them with His love and compassion.


They love Him, and demonstrate their love for Him by loving people.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,251
3,991
113
I'm just showing what the scriptures say.

I only see the two different times.


And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” Galatians 3:8


This is from Genesis 12:1-3


Then again in Genesis 22, which James describes.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21



JPT
No he was justified by faith that led him to to offer Isaac.
His works or willingness to offer Isaac was as a result of his faith